VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[gizmobtj]

All JMO,this is a huge disappointment for any who have followed from the beginning. You have 4 suspects, 8 murders and 4 crime scenes. I don't know how it could have been presented differently. The jury needed the backstory, the family dynamics and the 6+ years of investigation. IMO, there was still more to be presented.

I'm surprised the defense did not call more witnesses, like FW or RW but then they may have been pulled in to the case and they didn't want that.

I know the defense does not have to prove innocence but I think it was a mistake to put GW on the stand. The jury has a tremendous amount of evidence to look at but wouldn't you, if you were on the jury already have a gut feel of what happened and who is guilty of the crimes? Anyone think the trial came to an abrupt halt for whatever reason?? You name it.

Probably because you don't want unreliable witnesses, witnesses who can't be trusted to say something beyond what they told you on cross and witnesses that are involved in other crimes ....

 

[Skully67]

Section 2933.81 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

ORC regarding custodial interviews.

 

[Chelly]

He himself admitted he was a menace to society. He admitted he is a criminal and there were victims in those crimes. Truck drivers lost jobs because of his robberies, businesses and individuals lost merchandise and their money from crimes he did with his family. When he involved himself in any crimes committed by The Wagner Crime Family there were innocent victims that lost something.

Criminals are a menace to society. No normal person would want to live near him.

He showed zero remorse for any of it. No "I'm sorry my crimes hurt others."
No "I would never do that again."

Is he on trial for his past crimes not associated with the Rhoden murders?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Wasn't it SW who told them they had given Bullvine some medicine Kool aid?

That’s is what a Wagner told at the hospital!
JMO

 

[Dudly]

Heck no. According to testimony by Jake, Angela & George, they all three LOVED Hanna to death. How ironic and disgusting is THAT?

Loved her to death is correct… MOO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

AW testified that George planned, prepared for, carried out and attempted to cover up the murders, and about the bloody shoe print. JW testified he was present for the murders, helped plan and plot the murders, wore a ski mask and Walmart shoes and SKS rifle that night.

TC testified to physical abuse by GW4. Beth testified in fear of her life. We’ve heard his abusive and aggressive behavior, threats to BCI agent and abuse towards people and animals.

It is the totality of the preponderance of evidence presented by the prosecution.

The prosecution’s evidence met their responsibility of defendant’s guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt”, IMO. Reasonable is the key factor here.

Moreover, GW4 has NO solid alibi. His lied about his alibi! First he went to bed at 12:30 am and then he testified to a 10:00ish pm bedtime on the night of the murders. Yet, he has no one to substantiate this.

Interesting how defense had not even one text message or a picture to support GW4 claim that FR was his best friend.

MOO, always considered that AW was at the murders too, and that would leave no one home with the kids. One reason she took the plea deal. Nobody will rat her out but then maybe BW may.

This is all in my opinion only and MOO.

Now that GW4 has planted the seed of innocent, when Billy Wagner goes to trial he is going to scream it was just George and Jake that did the murders, remember 2 pair of shoes and the only people there to buy the shoes was Angela, George and Jake, so Billy will lay blame, JMO this plan was created in 2017 those 4 Wagner’s used their defense attorneys to get Billy and George free, JMO

 

[justtrish]

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Thinking about George and how he testified. Answer for everything, excuse for everything, everyone else was mistaken or plain lying except him. I think she was delebriate in what was asked because he was very well rehearsed. She did get him going a few times. She got him a little flustered and showed the jury a bit of his feelings on the molestation and even the spying stuff. He knew a lot about what was being said on Topix and online. he was awfully worried about what people were saying for someone that says he didn't get online. His excuse for all the poor behavior was he thought BCI was framing them. I think she poked some holes and showed some inconsistencies. I think she knew he wouldn't crack and slip up and say he was there. I don't think she needed to get any more out of him than she did. She kept him talking about not murder things, but did show how he was just like his family, not separate as he tried to say, still committing crimes even though he had "changed his ways".

I also think she can see the jurors and can read how they are reacting to every witness to his comments on direct and to various things she asked. I think she tried to get him going about Beth and Tabatha (survivors of this family) to show they were truthful and he was not. Then she tried to get him going on issues he had with Jake. She was I think trying to focus on those he claims were lying to show they weren't. If the jury believes the other witnesses over George they will find him guilty. She was trying to show they were truthful and George wasn't. I think she did that.

I think she did the cross because George has women issues. Look at what he's said about nearly ever woman in his life. He really doesn't have a high opinion of any woman. His 4 year old niece is a and that was said because he's not sleeping and hyped up on caffeine. Right. Everyone is a , nobody is fit not even his own mother (I think we can all agree with him on that at least) yet he let her raise him and be alone with him.

 

[Betty P]

Are you sure it's not that you can automatically be charged? I think all of counts have to be voted on and juries often return illogical results

We'll see when the judge gives the jury instructions after the defense does closing arguments.

Judge Deering will probably address this issue specifically when telling them how to weigh the different charges. JMO, if they're pretty sure GW4 is guilty of conspiracy or burglary, they have to accept that means he's guilty of murder.

These kinds of laws/specifications have been in place in most states for a long time. I'm surprised that others are surprised that someone can be found guilty of murder even if they were not present when the person died.

But I assume the judge will explain all that to them. If the jurors feel he's guilty of conspiracy but don't want to vote for it because he'll then be guilty of murder, it becomes their problem. They'll be voting to let a killer out of jail who will continue to prey on people in their community. For all the people who think GW4 didn't do anything too bad, how many will be willing to have him and Billy move into a house in their neighborhood?

We'll see. The locals know these killers better than those of us who don't live there.

 

[gizmobtj]

Scheiderer said "required by law" but I don't remember whether or if it was said; a state or federal law.

It's not federal because the FBI has a policy of never recording interviews.

Why the FBI doesn’t record interviews

When the rule prohibiting FBI agents from recording interviews was instituted, the reasoning was that their testimony under oath is credible.

www.google.com

And it's not Ohio law:

Section 2933.81 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

 

[Betty P]

Now that GW4 has planted the seed of innocent, when Billy Wagner goes to trial he is going to scream it was just George and Jake that did the murders, remember 2 pair of shoes and the only people there to buy the shoes was Angela, George and Jake, so Billy will lay blame, JMO this plan was created in 2017 those 4 Wagner’s used their defense attorneys to get Billy and George free, JMO

That's obviously the plan - to make sure Billy and George 4 are set free to return to FWF and continue their life of crime unmolested. Their family will need to keep Parker and Nash on retainer.

 

[Dudly]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

I noticed that there was no sign of regret or remorse for all the previous criminal activity.
He remembered a lot of details about houses they lived in, how they were burned, how they stole fuel, etc.. But, not nothing was known about the planning or the one night when the murders took place. Very convenient. He went to bed two different times that night from what he said. He said he had no TV in his room but said the kids were in his room watching cartoons that morning when they came back from the shed work…
MOO

 

[molly1255]

Don’t forget though- These charges are in relation to this specific case- not his lifetime of crime. I’m not sure they proved any of this in relation to this case without reasonable doubt. JMO

I agree the previous criminal activity has to do with other crimes. That said, GW4's was quite diverse in terms of his criminality. He has a bad history of violating the rights of others and I didn't see anything that resembled a conscience about what he has admitted to having done. JMO, he is going for the pity play and he is acting like he is a victim. Some people may fall for that, but most adults know what a lack of conscience coupled with the pity play means. He had agency and he also had job skills that made it possible to get far away from his toxic family.

If I were a juror, I would find it to be extremely compelling evidence that both his mother and his brother testified against him. JMO, 30 years for Angela is not a sweetheart deal at her age. JW knows that he will die in prison. I don't see that as a sweetheart deal, either. All JMO.

 

[Betty P]

It's not federal because the FBI has a policy of never recording interviews.

Why the FBI doesn’t record interviews

When the rule prohibiting FBI agents from recording interviews was instituted, the reasoning was that their testimony under oath is credible.

www.google.com

And it's not Ohio law:

Section 2933.81 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

Thanks!

GW4's case is the first time I've seem members of WS become so adamant that all interviews with suspects must be on videotape. I've never seen that happen with any other case here, though I've not followed all of them.

 

[molly1255]

I noticed that there was no sign of regret or remorse for all the previous criminal activity.
He remembered a lot of details about houses they lived in, how they were burned, how they stole fuel, etc.. But, not nothing was known about the planning or the one night when the murders took place. Very convenient. He went to bed two different times that night from what he said. He said he had no TV in his room but said the kids were in his room watching cartoons that morning when they came back from the shed work…
MOO

I agree - no sign of remorse or regret. JMO, his sense of entitlement is off the charts.

 

[gizmobtj]

We'll see when the judge gives the jury instructions after the defense does closing arguments.

Judge Deering will probably address this issue specifically when telling them how to weigh the different charges. JMO, if they're pretty sure GW4 is guilty of conspiracy or burglary, they have to accept that means he's guilty of murder.

These kinds of laws/specifications have been in place in most states for a long time. I'm surprised that others are surprised that someone can be found guilty of murder even if they were not present when the person died.

But I assume the judge will explain all that to them. If the jurors feel he's guilty of conspiracy but don't want to vote for it because he'll then be guilty of murder, it becomes their problem. They'll be voting to let a killer out of jail who will continue to prey on people in their community. For all the people who think GW4 didn't do anything too bad, how many will be willing to have him and Billy move into a house in their neighborhood?

We'll see. The locals know these killers better than those of us who don't live there.

Right. Now that you mention it, I can recall judges saying things like "if you convict the defendant of X, you must convict them of Y" because of the risk of it being a defective verdict.

legally inconsistent verdict

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So can anyone tell me how Jake used a Chicken to burn the house!
And George sure made look like he had nothing to do with it also

 

[Odeto BJ]

At the same time I think the presence of the third person from that interview on the defense witness list was a red flag to the prosecution: the defense attorneys are basically saying "don't go there, you won't like the outcome".

 

[justtrish]

So can anyone tell me how Jake used a Chicken to burn the house!
And George sure made look like he had nothing to do with it also

Plot twist - maybe this was in fact the pregnant chicken?

Oh yes he just removed his items because it was going to happen anyway so he didn't want his stuff to burn.

 

[gizmobtj]

So can anyone tell me how Jake used a Chicken to burn the house!
And George sure made look like he had nothing to do with it also

Easier than you might think! Happy Thanksgiving!

Redirect Notice

 

[Betty P]

I agree - no sign of remorse or regret. JMO, his sense of entitlement is off the charts.

It makes you wonder if he and his family have been "give a pass" on this activity for many years, at least locally. It's apparent the extended family of Wagners doesn't see anything wrong with this criminal behavior. Maybe LE and the criminal justice system have overlooked it, too, for whatever reason.

The excessive poaching, hunting out of season, etc. is surprising. Do they not have any game wardens down there?

My uncle was a game warden for decades in an area like this. He knew who everyone was and what they were up to. He had some great stories to tell of busting the locals for poaching, seining fish, etc. With the poachers and spotlighting criminals, he worked at night and set up traps for them. He knew some guys were spotlighting deer by driving a tractor pulling a trailer slowly around a field in the middle of the night. He hid in the woods one night and when they drove by, he hopped up on the trailer and said "Hey boys, hows the hunting? You're under arrest".