OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #50

[Johnny B Bad]

I’m sorry fellow sleuthers of rambling on but there is no excuse of what went on in the courtroom yesterday, Rita Newcomb should have had breakfast in Pike County Jail this morning.

 

[Justus Forall]

IMO, Judge Deering doesn’t want to be ‘the reason’ for an appeal or mistrial so he is giving RN plenty of rope. It would be satisfying to see her bail revoked however, my eye is on the prize at the end of her trial. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree, I don't think he will run a tighter ship in the future.

I also don't think it will matter much what the defendants show to the jurors because the their goal is to get a mistrial. Once that happens, they walk free. Pike County doesn't have the money to start this process all over again and the state is too cheap to front the cost. Welcome to Ohio.

AW and RN are doing this to compromise her case and those of the others. Likely their attorneys have hatched this scheme and they're playing along.

Betty I'm pretty "upset" with you! You brought up a bad word: MISTRIAL
LOL...I am totally joking! And I really very much like your synopsis of what AC said about the number of calls and what was said on the calls.

My opinion only

I'm trying to wrap my head around this MISTRIAL thing so I've been researching it.
It's my understanding that a mistrial goes strictly by Counts. The Wagner's have 22 counts (Jake 23) and the Jury gives a verdict for each individual count. In other words, in Angela's trial, for example, the Jury could find her guilty of some of the Counts but on others they could deadlock and get a mistrial. The jury could convict her on all the charges less than murder but deadlock on her 8 aggravated murder Counts.

She would then be sent back to jail to await sentencing on the guilty verdicts, but the State would be back at square one on the 8 aggravated murder Counts. If there is any mistrial for the Wagner's it would not be for every Count because there is digital evidence that you can't get around like the hacking, there is surveillance evidence you can't get around in the Walmarts, there are forged documents you can't undo, and then to be convicted of more than 1 or 2 Counts proves Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of corrupt Activity, and Count #9 = Conspiracy.

Even in the most unlikely event of Angie getting a mistrial on all 22 Counts, I believe that the court would work against her and send her packing back to jail to await a new trial. Yes DP trials are too expensive to do twice, but, the 2nd time around they could just take the DP off the table and go straight for life W/O parole.

No problem. Sorry for the delay in answering, its busy this morning and have only had 1 cup of coffee.

I may be overthinking it, but I also wonder, if one defendant gets a mistrial does that influence the chances of the others following suit? These cases are all so closely connected vis a vis same crimes, same families all living together.

Even if say, one of them were to get a mistrial on some or all of the Counts, the other 3 trials would still go ahead as planned, they are totally separate in that regard. However, the prosecution and defense would be re-thinking their strategy.

Opinion

 

[Rutledge203]

IMO, Judge Deering doesn’t want to be ‘the reason’ for an appeal or mistrial so he is giving RN plenty of rope. It would be satisfying to see her bail revoked however, my eye is on the prize at the end of her trial. MOO

I agree and hope for the same.

 

[Rutledge203]

Betty I'm pretty "upset" with you! You brought up a bad word: MISTRIAL
LOL...I am totally joking! And I really very much like your synopsis of what AC said about the number of calls and what was said on the calls.

My opinion only

I'm trying to wrap my head around this MISTRIAL thing so I've been researching it.
It's my understanding that a mistrial goes strictly by Counts. The Wagner's have 22 counts (Jake 23) and the Jury gives a verdict for each individual count. In other words, in Angela's trial, for example, the Jury could find her guilty of some of the Counts but on others they could deadlock and get a mistrial. The jury could convict her on all the charges less than murder but deadlock on her 8 aggravated murder Counts.

She would then be sent back to jail to await sentencing on the guilty verdicts, but the State would be back at square one on the 8 aggravated murder Counts. If there is any mistrial for the Wagner's it would not be for every Count because there is digital evidence that you can't get around like the hacking, there is surveillance evidence you can't get around in the Walmarts, there are forged documents you can't undo, and then to be convicted of more than 1 or 2 Counts proves Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of corrupt Activity, and Count #9 = Conspiracy.

Even in the most unlikely event of Angie getting a mistrial on all 22 Counts, I believe that the court would work against her and send her packing back to jail to await a new trial. Yes DP trials are too expensive to do twice, but, the 2nd time around they could just take the DP off the table and go straight for life W/O parole.



Even if say, one of them were to get a mistrial on some or all of the Counts, the other 3 trials would still go ahead as planned, they are totally separate in that regard. However, the prosecution and defense would be re-thinking their strategy.

Opinion

YES YES YES. I look forward to hearing Guilty. The evidence is overwhelming IMO. And I have not seen specifics, just the list.

 

[Betty P]

Betty I'm pretty "upset" with you! You brought up a bad word: MISTRIAL
LOL...I am totally joking! And I really very much like your synopsis of what AC said about the number of calls and what was said on the calls.

My opinion only

I'm trying to wrap my head around this MISTRIAL thing so I've been researching it.
It's my understanding that a mistrial goes strictly by Counts. The Wagner's have 22 counts (Jake 23) and the Jury gives a verdict for each individual count. In other words, in Angela's trial, for example, the Jury could find her guilty of some of the Counts but on others they could deadlock and get a mistrial. The jury could convict her on all the charges less than murder but deadlock on her 8 aggravated murder Counts.

She would then be sent back to jail to await sentencing on the guilty verdicts, but the State would be back at square one on the 8 aggravated murder Counts. If there is any mistrial for the Wagner's it would not be for every Count because there is digital evidence that you can't get around like the hacking, there is surveillance evidence you can't get around in the Walmarts, there are forged documents you can't undo, and then to be convicted of more than 1 or 2 Counts proves Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of corrupt Activity, and Count #9 = Conspiracy.

Even in the most unlikely event of Angie getting a mistrial on all 22 Counts, I believe that the court would work against her and send her packing back to jail to await a new trial. Yes DP trials are too expensive to do twice, but, the 2nd time around they could just take the DP off the table and go straight for life W/O parole.



Even if say, one of them were to get a mistrial on some or all of the Counts, the other 3 trials would still go ahead as planned, they are totally separate in that regard. However, the prosecution and defense would be re-thinking their strategy.

Opinion

That's a good summary and I hope you're right about mistrial being decided by counts. Judge Deering has more experience in these matters, obviously. Let's hope he made the right choice. AW is certainly going to look bad in front of her jury when they consider those counts for Counts #22 and #9. RN is also named in Count #22, so they both just gave a clear demonstration of how they operate.

Don't forget, Jake W was in on a speakerphone convo with AW, so he's not looking good, either.

 

[Cool Cats]

IANAL, but it could come from RN and AW revealing information about or plotting to mess up the trials of AW and the other defendants. They can do this by revealing information that is prejudicial against other defendants, resulting in potential jurors receiving evidence they shouldn't have.

5 Common Reasons for Mistrials

JMO, the judge allowing a defendant to discuss the evidence and trials of other defendants could also be very problematic, not to mention collaborating on ways to interfere with the trials by giving false testimony, etc.

ETA: JMO - Revealing inadmissible evidence to the jury can apply before the trial if that information is made public in any way to the potential jury pool.

Allowing RN to continue to remain unsupervised at home remains a big risk. I don't know how the judge is going to control the phone calls between her and AW in real time. Anyone familiar with jails know how they can do this? Do inmates have to reveal who they're calling before they're allowed to place a call?

My 2 Cents

So I read this MISTRIAL article you linked (thanx) and need to clarify my earlier post to you. I was talking about mistrials in the context of hung juries only. I realize that yes there are other reasons for mistrials besides a deadlocked jury.

According to your linked article, other reasons for mistrials are:

A Juror Committed Misconduct

Jurors are given specific instructions on what they can and cannot do which can range from not watching television to not speaking to attorneys or witnesses.

The Jury Was Improperly Drawn

If a judge determines that either side used improper practices in selecting jury members or a juror lied during the voir dire process.

A Key Figure in the Trial Becomes Unavailable

When a key figure in the trial – such as a juror or attorney – becomes unavailable through death, severe illness, or some other cause, the judge may have no choice but to declare a mistrial.

And this is the one you were pointing out:

The Jury Was Provided Evidence It Should Not Have Had

Inadmissible evidence is mistakenly shown to jurors, or attorneys make improper statements to the jury in their arguments or examination of witnesses.

I have to agree with everything you said about this. If these phone calls with AW and RN continue they could have deep repercussions. AW was clearly telling her mom what to do and how to do it, then talking about her case strategy. What if something got out to the public and tainted the Jury pool?

As to jail phone calls the inmates have to list the names, addresses and phone numbers of everyone they want to call. The jail does a background check and if the person passes they are put on the inmate's call list.

Rita should simply be taken off Angie's call list and Angie should be ordered to not just stop talking to mom, but stop calling her alltogether, period. We saw what happened in Rita 's hearing, how Judge Deering changed his no-contact order into being more specific (for reasons he did not disclose) so I bet he will do the same for AW, another slap on the wrist, just a lot of redundancy in my book.

Any communication in and out of jail is closely scrutinized — so inmates turn to ingenious codes to convey secret messages

How Prison Telecommunications Work

"...Even though prisons are free to listen to telephone conversations, inmates still have managed to find clever ways around this surveillance such as talking in code or unintelligibly. To help monitor calls, voice authentication technology, which verifies the identity of the person called is becoming more widely used.

Voice authentication involves recording someone's voice and saving it. From then on, when the inmate wants to call that person, the technology can compare the sound of that person's voice (including, for instance, its particular frequencies) to the saved file.

Even with big brother listening in, many prisoners have successfully circumvented this surveillance simply by obtaining a cell phone..."

 

[Loomis124]

Does anyone remember the case AC cited yesterday? Was it State vs. Goff? Thanks.

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone remember the case AC cited yesterday? Was it State vs. Goff? Thanks.

Do you remember when she cited it? Before or after she played the recordings of the phone calls?

 

[Betty P]

The Jury Was Provided Evidence It Should Not Have Had

Inadmissible evidence is mistakenly shown to jurors, or attorneys make improper statements to the jury in their arguments or examination of witnesses.

JMO, I'm guessing this is why the video feed for tv was cut off when recordings of AW and RN's phone conversations were played in court.

I think they're taking some big risks by letting RN stay out of jail and trusting AW won't try to contact her again. None of them can be trusted.

 

[Loomis124]

Before, I think. I haven't gotten to listen again and sound was so bad I could hardly make out their words.

And not throwing this at you, Betty, but WHOEVER was coughing in the courtroom yesterday should have their behind kicked! Soooo disrespectful and disruptive! JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

I listened to the hearing yesterday just to find out the verdict on bail (which was very disappointing) and then I re-listened again today to see what I missed. First, Rita needs to learn courtroom etiquette, this isn’t Mayberry. I heard her refer to AC as “Angela/Angie” instead of Ms Canepa, To RJ as”Junk” instead of Mr. Junk and RD as “Judge” instead of Your Honor. She answers with the shake of her head instead of “Yes, Sir” or “No, Sir” and her attitude just totally stinks of disrespect. I’m surprised Mr Gerlach didn’t groom her ahead of time.

Second, not sure I heard this correctly or maybe I was blind sided, but I heard them say that RN was originally a witness at the GJ and it was not known of her part in the forgery until AFTER her testimony. REALLY? So RN actually spilled the beans. Lol.

Third, so there is a dispute over where EXACTLY the forging of the documents occurred (we already knew that) but did I hear correctly that the prosecution was going to allow her to testify at trial in Pike County then let her off with a mistrial (intentionally)? I don’t understand that purpose. Did they only indict her so they could make sure she couldn’t have contact with the rest of the family (ha, that worked out well!). If they only needed her to testify in court they could have just subpoenaed her. I believe they found out accidentally that she was in Scioto County at the time and not in Pike as previously believed. I think they were focusing on the fact that HMR wasn’t the one who signed the paper then when RN testified they found out she wasn’t there AT ALL during the signing. I get the impression that they aren’t concerned for RN’s bit in this picture so much as they need her testimony regarding the signature of HMR is not HMR’s. I think RN May end up getting out of this after all. OMG!

 

[Merrygirl]

YES YES YES. I look forward to hearing Guilty. The evidence is overwhelming IMO. And I have not seen specifics, just the list.

Just a thought I had but if all 6 end up getting off with a slap on the wrist, there will be a whole lot of us sleuthers in deep depression. ROFL. We’ll need to have a Zoloft party. Lol

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Although I don't believe RN or her family will stop communications with AW or JW all that is needed is a block.

Snipped from article:

https://www.gettingout.com/delaware-county-jail/

"If you do not wish to receive calls from inmate, simply call 1-866-516-0115 from the phone number that you wish to have blocked. A live operator will help prevent inmates from being able to call that number in the future."

 

[Betty P]

I listened to the hearing yesterday just to find out the verdict on bail (which was very disappointing) and then I re-listened again today to see what I missed. First, Rita needs to learn courtroom etiquette, this isn’t Mayberry. I heard her refer to AC as “Angela/Angie” instead of Ms Canepa, To RJ as”Junk” instead of Mr. Junk and RD as “Judge” instead of Your Honor. She answers with the shake of her head instead of “Yes, Sir” or “No, Sir” and her attitude just totally stinks of disrespect. I’m surprised Mr Gerlach didn’t groom her ahead of time.

Second, not sure I heard this correctly or maybe I was blind sided, but I heard them say that RN was originally a witness at the GJ and it was not known of her part in the forgery until AFTER her testimony. REALLY? So RN actually spilled the beans. Lol.

Third, so there is a dispute over where EXACTLY the forging of the documents occurred (we already knew that) but did I hear correctly that the prosecution was going to allow her to testify at trial in Pike County then let her off with a mistrial (intentionally)? I don’t understand that purpose. Did they only indict her so they could make sure she couldn’t have contact with the rest of the family (ha, that worked out well!). If they only needed her to testify in court they could have just subpoenaed her. I believe they found out accidentally that she was in Scioto County at the time and not in Pike as previously believed. I think they were focusing on the fact that HMR wasn’t the one who signed the paper then when RN testified they found out she wasn’t there AT ALL during the signing. I get the impression that they aren’t concerned for RN’s bit in this picture so much as they need her testimony regarding the signature of HMR is not HMR’s. I think RN May end up getting out of this after all. OMG!

I'm not sure they aren't interested in prosecuting RN. She's been charged with 3 counts of forgery, one count of perjury and one count of obstructing justice. She is also named in Count #22 of the other W indictments - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity. Fredericka Wagner and "John Doe" are also named in those charges. So even though that charge might not be listed in her charging documents, it could be brought at some future date, JMO.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

Her trial is also set for October 21 and has been scheduled for 4 days, possibly 5.

Doesn't sound to me like she's getting out of anything. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Just a thought I had but if all 6 end up getting off with a slap on the wrist, there will be a whole lot of us sleuthers in deep depression. ROFL. We’ll need to have a Zoloft party. Lol

Or some of us will make a visit to Pike County.

Actually, I don't think they'll be getting away with anything. The state has too much evidence on them.

 

[Dudly]

I will say one thing. RN getting put on the stand and questioned by her attorney was as close to a SNL skit as there could be. I wonder who came up with that as a reason to discredit a JG proceeding. She knew nothing about the GJ, but knew that man maybe wasn't supposed to be there...

 

[Chingaling]

Deering's ruling:

“It’s a serious thing to violate court orders and you could go to jail,” Deering said. "There’s been a serious violation of this court order, so I’m going to expand the order. No phone calls can be taken from Angela Wagner and no calls are to be taken by her from anyone else in that house.

If the court finds calls are being received or made to Wagner or if people while at that house are receiving or making calls to her then one of two things will happen; you’ll go to jail or you can’t live in that home anymore."

They will just call somebody else's house like FW's.

 

[Betty P]

They will just call somebody else's house like FW's.

Maybe they should just revoke her phone privileges. That would solve the problem. She can always write letters.

 

[Loomis124]

I'm not sure they aren't interested in prosecuting RN. She's been charged with 3 counts of forgery, one count of perjury and one count of obstructing justice. She is also named in Count #22 of the other W indictments - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity. Fredericka Wagner and "John Doe" are also named in those charges. So even though that charge might not be listed in her charging documents, it could be brought at some future date, JMO.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

Her trial is also set for October 21 and has been scheduled for 4 days, possibly 5.

Doesn't sound to me like she's getting out of anything. JMO

I totally agree with you. RN is going to trial. I just finished listening to Part 1 and IMHO, defendants RN, AW, and JW have clearly disobeyed the court's no-contact order and should be punished accordingly. Judge Deering is being way too lenient. Why? Whatever he's afraid of now, will likely let RN walk if he doesn't put a stop to this blatant disobedience. MOO