OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #50

[JGB]

I was crazy! I didn't know right from wrong. Get me off the hook!!!

Yep! Here it comes....

 

[Loomis124]

Four times to look at a door for an hour or more...lol

True. Lol. Probably longer in these. One good thing...at least Judge Deering has already heard some of the recordings in AW's matter. I think AC saved the best ones though. JMO

 

[Rutledge203]

Loomis just wanted to say I'm still here. I will continue to follow this case until the end!
I believe someone has a hearing in the 17th?

ME TOO

 

[Rutledge203]

WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON

09/11/2019 MOTION OF DEFENDANT FOR IN-PERSON VISITATION BY PSYCHOLOGIST FILED (VIA FAX) Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C

09/11/2019 ENTRY GRANTING DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR IN-PERSON VISITATION BY PSYCHOLOGIST FILED

Interesting.
Could be for a number of reasons IMO.
Competent to plead?
Mitigation evaluation?
Personality Disorder?
EBM
Suicidal ideation?

Will be interesting as all of this case is.

 

[Rutledge203]

Does anyone know if there will be multiple cameras in the courtroom during the trials? And has anyone noticed, AW is the only one who has chosen to be hidden by her red-faced attorney? That should speak volumes to the public! None of the others "hide" their faces. JMO

I certainly hope so. All coverage of trials I've recently seen do. We want good coverage. My 2 cents

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was crazy! I didn't know right from wrong. Get me off the hook!!!

So this is GW3 asking to see a psychologist, not a competency eval?

 

[IType]

So this is GW3 asking to see a psychologist, not a competency eval?

IMO, I suspect his attorney requested the evaluation to establish GW3 has a low IQ and/or junior high education level. GW3's attorney mentioned in one of the earlier hearings that GW3 was being referred to as " the mastermind" of the murders but stated that there was no way GW3 could be capable of that role because he only has a 7th (or 8th?) grade education. I often type psych evals in my work, and a common part of those is a mental status examination. a mental status eval can determine how much of a "general fund of knowledge" the person has.

IMO, the psych eval has been requested by GW3 attorney in order to prove his client could not be capable of being "the mastermind". Again, JMO.

As a side note, there has been a lot of speculation as to why GW3 and AW were receiving Social Security Disability. I also occasionally type disability exams. "Low intellectual functioning" is one reason a person can be considered disabled. If GW3 does have a low IQ as his attorney claims, maybe GW3 is the one receiving disability income. Low IQ could also explain why GW3 tends to stumble over his words and doesn't speak very clearly when the judge asks him questions. JMO

IMO, I do think he's 100% guilty of participating in the murders and even possibly came up with the "idea" to commit the murders, but I don't truly see him as being capable of participating very much in all the electronic/stalking stuff with the phones and social media accounts, etc., that was done prior to the murders.

Again, all my opinion

 

[Dudly]

IMO, I suspect his attorney requested the evaluation to establish GW3 has a low IQ and/or junior high education level. GW3's attorney mentioned in one of the earlier hearings that GW3 was being referred to as " the mastermind" of the murders but stated that there was no way GW3 could be capable of that role because he only has a 7th (or 8th?) grade education. I often type psych evals in my work, and a common part of those is a mental status examination. a mental status eval can determine how much of a "general fund of knowledge" the person has.

IMO, the psych eval has been requested by GW3 attorney in order to prove his client could not be capable of being "the mastermind". Again, JMO.

As a side note, there has been a lot of speculation as to why GW3 and AW were receiving Social Security Disability. I also occasionally type disability exams. "Low intellectual functioning" is one reason a person can be considered disabled. If GW3 does have a low IQ as his attorney claims, maybe GW3 is the one receiving disability income. Low IQ could also explain why GW3 tends to stumble over his words and doesn't speak very clearly when the judge asks him questions. JMO

IMO, I do think he's 100% guilty of participating in the murders and even possibly came up with the "idea" to commit the murders, but I don't truly see him as being capable of participating very much in all the electronic/stalking stuff with the phones and social media accounts, etc., that was done prior to the murders.

Again, all my opinion

I agree with your opinions. In my opinion they want to establish that he was coerced into participating due to his "Low intellectual functioning".

 

[Betty P]

IMO, I suspect his attorney requested the evaluation to establish GW3 has a low IQ and/or junior high education level. GW3's attorney mentioned in one of the earlier hearings that GW3 was being referred to as " the mastermind" of the murders but stated that there was no way GW3 could be capable of that role because he only has a 7th (or 8th?) grade education. I often type psych evals in my work, and a common part of those is a mental status examination. a mental status eval can determine how much of a "general fund of knowledge" the person has.

IMO, the psych eval has been requested by GW3 attorney in order to prove his client could not be capable of being "the mastermind". Again, JMO.

As a side note, there has been a lot of speculation as to why GW3 and AW were receiving Social Security Disability. I also occasionally type disability exams. "Low intellectual functioning" is one reason a person can be considered disabled. If GW3 does have a low IQ as his attorney claims, maybe GW3 is the one receiving disability income. Low IQ could also explain why GW3 tends to stumble over his words and doesn't speak very clearly when the judge asks him questions. JMO

IMO, I do think he's 100% guilty of participating in the murders and even possibly came up with the "idea" to commit the murders, but I don't truly see him as being capable of participating very much in all the electronic/stalking stuff with the phones and social media accounts, etc., that was done prior to the murders.

Again, all my opinion

Thank you, this sounds like a realistic explanation, JMO. I especially agree with your first couple of paragraphs. I wonder if there's some debate going on amongst the defendants and their attorneys as to who was the mastermind. Two weeks ago, there as a news report stating AW was believed to be the mastermind. That could have been information planted by a defense attorney.

Someone asked for a link to that info the other day. I'll go back to check in a minute, but if anyone wants to look, it was in a major news article that came out the day of RN's last hearing. I mentioned it in my comment when I posted the link because it was the first I had heard that.

Maybe the other defendants/attorneys are getting fed up with all the problems AW and RN have been causing with their phone calls.

ETA:

Found it. Here the link to my post with the article it was ABC News 6

OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #50

Quote from the article:

Prosecutors said Newcomb has had repeated telephone conversations with her daughter, Angela Wagner, who’s charged along with her husband, Billy Wagner, and sons in the capital murders. Angela is believed to be the mastermind of the conspiracy.

Judge gives grandmother a break on bail violation in Pike County massacre case

 

[Puzzles8]

ME TOO

Me three

When more facts start rolling in, I'm sure we'll all jump back into the discussion.

This is complete speculation on my part, but I wonder if Billy has untreated learning disabilities. I noticed on GWWII's death certificate his level of education was listed as - less than 8th grade. Maybe a learning disability genetically passed on from his father?

I think the purpose of the ordered evaluation is to create doubt he was the mastermind and if that doesn't work, the basis of an appeal if there is a guilty verdict.

MOO, JMO, etc.

 

[Betty P]

Me three

When more facts start rolling in, I'm sure we'll all jump back into the discussion.

This is complete speculation on my part, but I wonder if Billy has untreated learning disabilities. I noticed on GWWII's death certificate his level of education was listed as - less than 8th grade. Maybe a learning disability genetically passed on from his father?

I think the purpose of the ordered evaluation is to create doubt he was the mastermind and if that doesn't work, the basis of an appeal if there is a guilty verdict.

MOO, JMO, etc.

Good guess. Perhaps dyslexic or something similar? Something that wouldn't interfere with the normal activities of running a horse breeding business or working on cars or hunting, etc.

 

[Berrybell]

IMO, I suspect his attorney requested the evaluation to establish GW3 has a low IQ and/or junior high education level. GW3's attorney mentioned in one of the earlier hearings that GW3 was being referred to as " the mastermind" of the murders but stated that there was no way GW3 could be capable of that role because he only has a 7th (or 8th?) grade education. I often type psych evals in my work, and a common part of those is a mental status examination. a mental status eval can determine how much of a "general fund of knowledge" the person has.

IMO, the psych eval has been requested by GW3 attorney in order to prove his client could not be capable of being "the mastermind". Again, JMO.

As a side note, there has been a lot of speculation as to why GW3 and AW were receiving Social Security Disability. I also occasionally type disability exams. "Low intellectual functioning" is one reason a person can be considered disabled. If GW3 does have a low IQ as his attorney claims, maybe GW3 is the one receiving disability income. Low IQ could also explain why GW3 tends to stumble over his words and doesn't speak very clearly when the judge asks him questions. JMO

IMO, I do think he's 100% guilty of participating in the murders and even possibly came up with the "idea" to commit the murders, but I don't truly see him as being capable of participating very much in all the electronic/stalking stuff with the phones and social media accounts, etc., that was done prior to the murders.

Again, all my opinion

I wonder if it is also in anticipation that if G3 is convicted it could mitigate the death penalty if he has a mentally challenged diagnosis.

 

[IType]

Me three

When more facts start rolling in, I'm sure we'll all jump back into the discussion.

This is complete speculation on my part, but I wonder if Billy has untreated learning disabilities. I noticed on GWWII's death certificate his level of education was listed as - less than 8th grade. Maybe a learning disability genetically passed on from his father?

I think the purpose of the ordered evaluation is to create doubt he was the mastermind and if that doesn't work, the basis of an appeal if there is a guilty verdict.

MOO, JMO, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if BW has an untreated learning disability. I think in previous threads there was some discussion about BW either being home schooled or possibly being home schooled, but it might have just been speculation. If he indeed was home schooled, I could see how a learning disability could be easily unrecognized by the person providing the home schooling.

I, myself, didn't have the faintest idea my oldest son has a mild learning disability until his elementary school principal saw some discrepancies in his achievement test scores and recommended I get him tested. Someone not formally trained as an educator could easily just not see warning signs.

 

[IType]

Good guess. Perhaps dyslexic or something similar? Something that wouldn't interfere with the normal activities of running a horse breeding business or working on cars or hunting, etc.

Absolutely. Obviously the man is no nuclear physicist, but he certainly isn't completely ignorant, either. IMO

 

[IType]

I wonder if it is also in anticipation that if G3 is convicted it could mitigate the death penalty if he has a mentally challenged diagnosis.

IMO, certainly is a possibility.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder if it is also in anticipation that if G3 is convicted it could mitigate the death penalty if he has a mentally challenged diagnosis.

According to Ohio law there are 10 aggravating factors which can subject a suspect to the ultimate punishment, in other words, the death penalty.

Capital cases get super due process - Portsmouth Daily Times Ohio

"...In the instance of the infamous Rhoden family murders, the trials for which will be entering the initial phases over the next few weeks – see related story published in the Daily Times on initial arraignments – the most applicable aggravating factor may be one involving “a course of conduct” leading to the murder or murders.

As most know by now, Scioto County’s northern neighbor Pike County is facing four capital cases in connection with the Rhoden family murders which took place there in 2016. Six suspects, including four charged with aggravated murder with death penalty specifications, were arrested Nov.13... "

"...For his part, in summing up, Berman said prosecutors in capital cases can sometimes offer suspects life in prison as opposed to the death penalty in attempts to save both time and money. He did not offer a concrete opinion as to whether that will happen in the case of the Rhoden murders... "

In my opinion only, no I don't think the prosecution gives a rat's A S S about the time/ cost. 8 innocent people were gunned down and the DP is the only thing the prosecution will consider. No matter what Billy's psychologist says.

 

[Yellowbeak]

Thank you, this sounds like a realistic explanation, JMO. I especially agree with your first couple of paragraphs. I wonder if there's some debate going on amongst the defendants and their attorneys as to who was the mastermind. Two weeks ago, there as a news report stating AW was believed to be the mastermind. That could have been information planted by a defense attorney.

Someone asked for a link to that info the other day. I'll go back to check in a minute, but if anyone wants to look, it was in a major news article that came out the day of RN's last hearing. I mentioned it in my comment when I posted the link because it was the first I had heard that.

Maybe the other defendants/attorneys are getting fed up with all the problems AW and RN have been causing with their phone calls.

ETA:

Found it. Here the link to my post with the article it was ABC News 6

OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #50

Quote from the article:



Judge gives grandmother a break on bail violation in Pike County massacre case

Hmm... if so, then aren’t they basically admitting their guilt?

 

[Cool Cats]

Hmm... if so, then aren’t they basically admitting their guilt?

Not sure what you mean? Who is admitting their guilt?

 

[evelezrn]

Not sure what you mean? Who is admitting their guilt?

I'm not yellowbeak, but what I think the poster meant is that if he is claiming "not to be" the mastermind, in a way he is admitting that he did take part in the murders but one of the other 3 was "the mastermind".

 

[Daytocincy]

"...For his part, in summing up, Berman said prosecutors in capital cases can sometimes offer suspects life in prison as opposed to the death penalty in attempts to save both time and money. He did not offer a concrete opinion as to whether that will happen in the case of the Rhoden murders... "

In my opinion only, no I don't think the prosecution gives a rat's A S S about the time/ cost. 8 innocent people were gunned down and the DP is the only thing the prosecution will consider. No matter what Billy's psychologist says.[/QUOTE]
So, I think these cases present an interesting challenge for the prosecution. I agree that the pros is unwilling to let go of the DP. I believe one defendant can get out of the DP by plea deal in exchange for testifying against the others.

I think the challenge for the prosecution is the order in which to try the cases. They will want to lead with their strongest case. The prosecution wants to show the public too that they 100% have the right perpetrators. I think that is why GW4 didn't waive time until the last minute. I believe his case is the weakest in terms of evidence and motive, and his attorney knows this and wanted him to be tried first.

I think if the prosecution can get the trial dates solid AND get GW4's trial scheduled last, they can use that as pressure for him to take a plea. Would you want to be the last person tried after three trials proving these horrific crimes? And I do believe they have a ton of evidence, showing this horrible massacre against an entire family.
MOO