OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[Johnny B Bad]

I always wondered if part of the problem was that Jake could not actually fight for parental rights in court, like fight for joint custody with full parental rights to make major decisions. Hanna was the one who could make all the decisions, even cut down the visitation if she wanted.

Not being able to fight in court because of him having had relations with her when he was 20 and she was 15, according to the indictment. Now if she had married him no charges could be brought against him. Then if divorced, he could fight in court.

It doesn't make sense that he didn't go to court for joint legal custody unless he was afraid of getting charged.

Perhaps this is one reason the Wagner's became so enraged when she refused to marry him. Married, he would have been in the best legal position, unmarried, Hannah had all the rights as a single mom.

Just one theory....

I thought for a couple times while they where standing up at the end that GW4 was going to take off and try to run, he looks really nervous, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I thought for a couple times while they where standing up at the end that GW4 was going to take off and try to run, he looks really nervous, JMO

He looked a little less angry, he has a "resting anger face." He always seems nervous. He has lost a lot of weight. Perhaps he is planning to make a run for it.

 

[KentuckyMama]

He didn't have a dog in the fight.

Puzzles, I don't think they operate that way. That's normal rational thinking. But this is the Wagner's were talking about. It's not that he didn't have a dog in this fight, it's more that this is one dog and they are all sharing its skin. They are all one. The Wagner Hive Mind. Insult one, they are all personally offended.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Puzzles, I don't think they operate that way. That's normal rational thinking. But this is the Wagner's were talking about. It's not that he didn't have a dog in this fight, it's more that this is one dog and they are all sharing its skin. They are all one. The Wagner Hive Mind. Insult one, they are all personally offended.

So what do you think about the queen bee (FW) not showing up at AWs, GW4, and JWs, trial if all the Wagners are so close, RW didn’t stop coming to family trials until FW got free, JMO

 

[Loomis124]

So who's next? RN on Oct 7? I hate how these hearings are making

The court hearings this week have been interesting. It appears FW and RW only came to support Billy at his court date this week and none of the others. Might the evidence of AW’s phone calls to RN and JW be the reason?

I speculate IV didn’t participate “directly” in the murders, as in pulling a trigger at point blank range to assassinate innocent people. He probably had more of a support role in planning and helping carry out the massacres – stalking beforehand, purchasing supplies, making silencers, taking down trail cams, stealing security footage, keeping the dogs happy, cleaning up any potential evidence, destroying evidence, heck maybe even taking care of the children as JBB has suggested.

My opinion only:

IV was the most vocal in the “revenge conversations”. I think the W4 assumed only Billy, AW & Jake might be arrested. That would leave IV free to carry out the “jailbreak” and revenge on LE. IV never thought through the fact that he might be arrested and charged with the rest via conspiracy charges.

He was the only one that requested bail.

He thought he “knew” his DNA would not be at the crime scenes. That doesn’t matter if you are being charged as part of a conspiracy.

I really don't think he will walk away from this.
Now if he confesses and testifies against the others that could be a different story....

JMO, MOO, etc.

Why does everyone think GW4 is not as complicit?

involved with others in an illegal activity or wrongdoing.
"all of these people are complicit in some criminal conspiracy"

I don't think that for one minute.

He didn't have a dog in the fight.

The heck he didn't! He's a Wagner! JMO

 

[KentuckyMama]

So what do you think about the queen bee (FW) not showing up at AWs, GW4, and JWs, trial if all the Wagners are so close, RW didn’t stop coming to family trials until FW got free, JMO

I can't try to make sense or understand any of these people. Not one part of any of this is rational or logical. They are freaks. I think it may just be the beginning of them (all 6) turning on each other. Not necessarily in a legal sense, but and emotional sense.

 

[StrangeOne]

I always wondered if part of the problem was that Jake could not actually fight for parental rights in court, like fight for joint custody with full parental rights to make major decisions. Hanna was the one who could make all the decisions, even cut down the visitation if she wanted.

Not being able to fight in court because of him having had relations with her when he was 20 and she was 15, according to the indictment. Now if she had married him no charges could be brought against him. Then if divorced, he could fight in court.

It doesn't make sense that he didn't go to court for joint legal custody unless he was afraid of getting charged.

Perhaps this is one reason the Wagner's became so enraged when she refused to marry him. Married, he would have been in the best legal position, unmarried, Hannah had all the rights as a single mom.

Just one theory....

I think you're right. They were going to lose all the way around and they just couldn't have that.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think you're right. They were going to lose all the way around and they just couldn't have that.

What your saying makes me think of something else. I never understood about the custody documents giving Angela and Jake custody in the event of Hanna's death. Why? I always assumed a bio dad who has visitation wouldn't need custody papers.

It again goes back to Jake being with Hannah when she was only 15, and relatives getting custody for that reason. He was also with her when she was only 13 as well. He may have felt that those possible charges were always going to be over his head and in the way of him ever being a dad who actually has legal parental rights.

If Hanna had married him, all those problems would have been solved. She didn't marry him so then he gets her and her immediate family out of the way.

Thus, I don't think it was only over custody, I think some of it was about him wanting legal parental rights to make decisions that could carry weight.

Another article quotes a relative saying "Jake asked Hannah for his parental rights and she refused."

Just theories......

 

[OhioBlues]

AFAIK, Jake did not have visitation rights thru the court system. HR allowed him shared non-legal custody but he had no legal rights unless he went to court. If he had done that, then JW would probably have had to make child support payments etc.

 

[StrangeOne]

What your saying makes me think of something else. I never understood about the custody documents giving Angela and Jake custody in the event of Hanna's death. Why? I always assumed a bio dad who has visitation wouldn't need custody papers.

It again goes back to Jake being with Hannah when she was only 15, and relatives getting custody for that reason. He was also with her when she was only 13 as well. He may have felt that those possible charges were always going to be over his head and in the way of him ever being a dad who actually has legal parental rights.

If Hanna had married him, all those problems would have been solved. She didn't marry him so then he gets her and her immediate family out of the way.

Thus, I don't think it was only over custody, I think some of it was about him wanting legal parental rights to make decisions that could carry weight.

Another article quotes a relative saying "Jake asked Hannah for his parental rights and she refused."

Just theories......

The whole age thing would have come up. I know if I were going to lose my daughter I'd fought with including my age if I had been 15 years old when I had said daughter.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This seems like a very good explanation.
It makes sense.
My “Jail Break” thought was not realistic

I am more inclined to agree with your jail break thought.

Last I heard they were selling off animals as fast as Google could update the webpage. How many do they still own and does she care for, and good grief, how many accidents could happen in one morning? (On this farm so famous for their award winning horses and dogs??)

 

[Wild Rose]

its crazy to think that even some pictures could not be shown. i think all should be shown. they are part of the evidence and the jury has a right to see all of the evidence. i would not want to be on that jury at all

This has been bothering me for days. Why do we have law-abiding workers scarred for life because their job is to get photographic evidence if that said evidence is not allowed in the courtroom. There is a reason for photographic evidence. To show the true nature and extent of the crime. The physicians used to ask us to tow the car from an accident scene to the hospital so that they could understand the true nature and extent of an accident to be able to ultimately treat the case with the most knowledge of injuries. This is really upsetting me.

 

[Betty P]

Rhoden case sees four pre-trial hearings in one week - Portsmouth Daily Times

Thanks for the link. I was hoping they would have a wrap up. They have good reporting on the case.

I haven't viewed AW's hearing yet, but this stood out in the reporting on it. Explains one reason why they keep picking at the prosecution over the GJ testimony and why RN was claiming someone in a blue uniform was in her hearing. They're trying to get all the GJ testimony thrown out.

Among the dozens of motions filed by Wagner III’s defense team, one in part requests the names of witnesses who took part in grand jury proceedings against the suspect. Attorney Mark Collins stated he was concerned about testimony potentially given by now indicted and suspended Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader as well as an apparently suspended agent of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation, which participated in the Rhoden investigation.

Canepa quickly objected to the motion, but also informed Deering neither Reader nor the agent in question testified before any grand jury in the Rhoden cases.

Funny, they were asking for GJ hearing info before they blew up the whole scandal with Reader. Must have been part of their plan all along - place Reader testifying at the GJ hearings, then create this big scandal and investigation of him. Sounds like their plan didn't work as neither Reader nor the BCI agent testified.

I wonder who the BCI agent is they're referring to?

 

[Betty P]

Just adding to my comment above, is anyone aware of a BCI agent working on the Rhoden murders who was later suspended from his job? Just curious. It has no impact on the case.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for the link. I was hoping they would have a wrap up. They have good reporting on the case.

I haven't viewed AW's hearing yet, but this stood out in the reporting on it. Explains one reason why they keep picking at the prosecution over the GJ testimony and why RN was claiming someone in a blue uniform was in her hearing. They're trying to get all the GJ testimony thrown out.



Funny, they were asking for GJ hearing info before they blew up the whole scandal with Reader. Must have been part of their plan all along - place Reader testifying at the GJ hearings, then create this big scandal and investigation of him. Sounds like their plan didn't work as neither Reader nor the BCI agent testified.

I wonder who the BCI agent is they're referring to?

Yes I would highly recommend the Portsmouth Daily Times. Portsmouth is a small town yet consistently has the most detailed information on the Rhoden hearings with current court photos of the defendants. Being local (opinion) they likely have a reporter attend the hearings.

Well that's interesting what you said. That the defense is haggling for ways to get the GJ testimony thrown out. Makes sense. But they didn't succeed:

"..Deering overturned Gerlach’s motion to dismiss the charges against his client because of supposed irregularities in the grand jury process.."

"..Deering said he remained unconvinced any irregularities existed, let alone problems serious enough to result in the dismissal of charges.."

Defense trying to get Grand Jury Testimony thrown out:

1.) They questioned the integrity of a sheriff’s office administrative secretary – who acted as a court reporter during Newcomb’s appearance in front of a Pike County grand jury.
According to the defense, because she works for the Sheriff's Office she is biased and that creates an irregularity.

2.) Also the chain of custody was questioned by the defense when concerns were brought up on who had access to the court reporter's computer.

3.) Accusations were made that a man in a blue uniform was present in the Grand Jury room and he was not suppose to be there, this compromised everyone's Testimony because he should not have heard any Testimony.

4.) What you posted from an article -- thank you -- QUOTE FROM YOUR POST:

"...Attorney Mark Collins stated he was concerned about testimony potentially given by now indicted and suspended Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader as well as an apparently suspended agent of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation, which participated in the Rhoden investigation..."

I think this is just the start of the defense questioning all evidence/statements/reports that were handled by Reader and the suspended BCI investigator during the actual murder investigation. April 2016-October 2018.

They did not testify in front of the GJ but the defense will reach further back into the actual investigation. (opinion of course)

...Just My 2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

I am more inclined to agree with your jail break thought.

Last I heard they were selling off animals as fast as Google could update the webpage. How many do they still own and does she care for, and good grief, how many accidents could happen in one morning? (On this farm so famous for their award winning horses and dogs??)

Accidents in one morning? The barn burned down years ago due to electrical issues (apparently) is all I can think of. Did more happen?

 

[Betty P]

They did not testify in front of the GJ but the defense will reach further back to the actual investigation. (opinion of course)

RSBM for focus.

Yes, they'll keep trying to discredit any evidence and testimony they can that's remotely related to Reader or the unknown BCI agent, but they've lost two major battles already - with the court stenographer/mysterious man in blue and learning that neither of their other targets testified in the GJ.

 

[Cool Cats]

RSBM for focus.

Yes, they'll keep trying to discredit any evidence and testimony they can that's remotely related to Reader or the unknown BCI agent, but they've lost two major battles already - with the court stenographer/mysterious man in blue and learning that neither of their other targets testified in the GJ.

They won something but I made a mistake on it. I had thought that Deering granted a Motion to turn over all, everyone's, GJ testimony to Rita's attorney but the article states:

Deering ruled in favor of the defense ordering prosecutors turn over a full transcript of Newcomb’s grand jury testimony.

So it is just Newcomb's own testimony rather than the entire GJ transcript. That's a relief!
Those GJ witnesses have a right to privacy. I don't trust the Wagner's in what they might do if they learned everything -- who all the witnesses are and what they testified to. The Wagner's cited revenge to "anyone who goes against them" and I believe they could become enraged if they read testimony that goes against them. Angela told Rita not to testify against them.

However, there still is sensitive testimony relating to the murders that will show up in those transcripts so Deering had a prohibition put on those documents, they are for attorney’s eyes only.

"..Gerlach said he would like removal of a prohibition naming the documents as for attorney’s eyes only. Deering indicated he expects attorneys for both sides to try to work out that issue prior to Oct.7.."

In other words Judge Deering won't grant the Motion for Rita to see all that testimony that can reveal too much. Testimony that would get back to Angela eventually, and Jake also. .

...2 Cents...

 

[Betty P]

They won something but I made a mistake on it. I had thought that Deering granted a Motion to turn over all, everyone's, GJ testimony to Rita's attorney but the article states:

Deering ruled in favor of the defense ordering prosecutors turn over a full transcript of Newcomb’s grand jury testimony.

So it is just Newcomb's own testimony rather than the entire GJ transcript. That's a relief!
Those GJ witnesses have a right to privacy. I don't trust the Wagner's in what they might do if they learned everything -- who all the witnesses are and what they testified to. The Wagner's cited revenge to "anyone who goes against them" and I believe they could become enraged if they read testimony that goes against them. Angela told Rita not to testify against them.

However, there still is sensitive testimony relating to the murders that will show up in those transcripts so Deering had a prohibition put on those documents, they are for attorney’s eyes only.

"..Gerlach said he would like removal of a prohibition naming the documents as for attorney’s eyes only. Deering indicated he expects attorneys for both sides to try to work out that issue prior to Oct.7.."

In other words Judge Deering won't grant the Motion for Rita to see all that testimony that can reveal too much. Testimony that would get back to Angela eventually, and Jake also. .

...2 Cents...

Right, I remember that now at her last hearing. She could only get a transcript of her own testimony. Recall her attorney asked for a copy of the list of all people attending the GJ hearing, but the clerk/transcriptionist said they never do that, with the assumption being all the people in the transcript and the jurors are the only people present.

 

[Cool Cats]

Right, I remember that now at her last hearing. She could only get a transcript of her own testimony. Recall her attorney asked for a copy of the list of all people attending the GJ hearing, but the clerk/transcriptionist said they never do that, with the assumption being all the people in the transcript and the jurors are the only people present.

BBM

Thanks for mentioning this, who the Grand Jurors are and their testimony comes up more and more.

Wow, the defense is "chomping at the bit" to get to those GJ witnesses.(Opinion)

Note in the Wagner's Motions same thing:
(this is from Angie's docket)

(8) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO TRANSCRIBE THE GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS PRIOR TO TRIAL FILED

(10) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISCLOSE NAMES OF GRAND JURY WITNESSES FILED