OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[Loomis124]

Jake Wagner
02/10/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D


George Wagner 4th
01/21/2020 02:00 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D


Angela Wagner
02/25/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D


Billy Wagner
02/11/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

Wonder how much longer this is going to drag out before trials start?

I'd say at least another year. JMO

 

[Betty P]

JMO, but I find no substantial records of the Wagners ever planning to move anywhere but Alaska, to join their longtime friends the Cinereski's, from Minford. FW can even be found in a Google search in AK.

As to Dailey, I would just note that addresses and those who live/d there shed much light. As of now, as far as I can tell, he has gone rogue and his wife and kids no longer acknowledge him, at least according to FB. This makes me think he is hiding from something. JMO based on research.

With the tattoos, weapons and choice of movies, we've discussed whether the W's were involved in a white supremacy group or movement. Is it possible that some people the W's do business or socialize with are also involved in the same?

There's also been speculation that played a part in the choice of location for their new home.

As for moving to Canada, that's not easy to do. They would need work permits, etc. I'm not so sure Canada would protect a family accused of murdering 8 people.

How do I come to Canada as a temporary foreign worker?

 

[Betty P]

‘Betty, I agree with you about the mysteriousness around BD. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out if he really has something to contribute to this case and what it could be. I have some questions I would like to put out there for sleuthers to think about:

1) FG was willing to use him as a defense witness for his client. Do you think the info BD would contribute about the custody documents WOULD ONLY exonerate RN or could we see him again as a defense witness for W4?
2) Do you think FG would share this info with the other attys or do you think it would be more helpful for RN if he shared it with the prosecution? His first priority is to win (preferably for his client) but other than his client do you think his loyalties will be to W4 or prosecution?

I have waffled back and forth and now I have myself confused. Lol. I originally thought FG was only using him as a threat to prosecution to drop all charges. However, BD must have something important cuz AC wasn’t willing to reveal her hand in order to prove RN guilty. Now that there is a deal for RN in the works, does BD still have something valuable that will help the W4 or was this just a bluff? Remember FG still has to protect RN as she will be testifying that these were not her signatures in court. He wouldn’t want her to say something that will bring some of her charges back or possibly additional charges. If FG believes in the guilt of W4 do you think he would do the honorable thing or would he be more loyal to RN’s family? If BD has legitimate “custody” agreements that were initiated before the murders and not finalized until after the murders then this could be a plus for W4 since the focus is on custody. Everything is hypothetical of course but I would like to hear from others.

IANAL, but I'm fairly sure if BD is called as a witness, any evidence pertaining to him would be available to the prosecution and all the defense attorneys. Recall, the big fight at the end of RN's second last hearing was over evidence relating to BD that FG was supposed to turn over to the state, but had delayed until the last minute. So, if he's introducted as a witness, pretty sure he can be questioned by everyone's attorney. Seems unlikely FG can withhold any evidence pertaining to the other defendants. The rest is hypothetical, really difficult to predict.

Pardon, but I had to laugh reading your post and the references to FG. The first name that popped into my mind was "Fred Garvin", haha

 

[Loomis124]

I have never thought that this meant he DID kick in a door and was denying it. I have always thought it meant that, in his opinion, the disagreement between them never got so heated that he would do something like that. Just my opinion, yours may vary...

I have no proof, so JMO for what it's worth. I personally saw FB posts of HR's cousin stating that JW physically abused HR.

 

[Loomis124]

With the tattoos, weapons and choice of movies, we've discussed whether the W's were involved in a white supremacy group or movement. Is it possible that some people the W's do business or socialize with are also involved in the same?

There's also been speculation that played a part in the choice of location for their new home.

As for moving to Canada, that's not easy to do. They would need work permits, etc. I'm not so sure Canada would protect a family accused of murdering 8 people.

How do I come to Canada as a temporary foreign worker?

Agree, Betty. I haven't looked into the White Supremacy in a long time, but I would agree if BW was one, he definitely had friends in the group. Maybe LE knew who they were. I'd sure bet BW's friends made dang sure their tattoos were hidden after his arrest. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

With the tattoos, weapons and choice of movies, we've discussed whether the W's were involved in a white supremacy group or movement. Is it possible that some people the W's do business or socialize with are also involved in the same?

There's also been speculation that played a part in the choice of location for their new home.

As for moving to Canada, that's not easy to do. They would need work permits, etc. I'm not so sure Canada would protect a family accused of murdering 8 people.

How do I come to Canada as a temporary foreign worker?

White Supremacy in Alaska

Alaskan white supremacist gang members charged by USDOJ

 

[Loomis124]

Is anyone other than me about to drift off to sleep? If this is the pace, I don't know how much longer I will last. Maybe it's just the holidays and everyone is taking a break. I'm talking courts and Discovery, as opposed to WS posts.

Tomorrow is the prosecution's deadline for new Discovery regarding the last FWF search and RN's info to the state. I don't think it will happen. Other opinions?

 

[Loomis124]

Didn’t they also have “friends” in Alaska and they had visited there previously? I believe in one of the Wag interviews they said it was their “dream” to move to Alaska.

Yes, it was the Cinereski's, Kelly and Caleb from Minford, Oh.

 

[Fat Old Man]

Where you mention in your post QUOTE:

"One post included him pushing her (HR) down outside porch steps."

I just want to add that there is an article where Jake is quoted as saying:

"No I didn't go to Hanna's house and kick in her door."

What this tells me is that relatives told - most likely LE and a reporter - that Jake did do this act of violence against Hanna but of course he denies it.
I do not believe the family is making this up, it's too specific to be made up. Canepa mentioned in court that she wants to present to the Jury that Jake was violent to one of the victims before the murders. I believe she is referring to Hanna.

EDIT: found the article

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts
QUOTE FROM THIS ARTICLE:

"Relatives of some of the victims describe the relationship differently. They said Jake Wagner and his dad argued and fought with the Rhodens in the weeks just prior to the killings.

Jake Wagner balked at that: “No, I did not go to Hanna’s home three weeks prior to April 22 and kick in the door demanding she sign over custody of Sophia,’’ he wrote in that June 2, 2017 email."

JMO
Was he saying, I did not go their with the, intent of Kicking the door in, But she would not, open it, and I was in a fit of rage. And some how it got kicked in. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

JMO
Was he saying, I did not go their with the, intent of Kicking the door in, But she would not, open it, and I was in a fit of rage. And some how it got kicked in. JMO

JAKE LIES. JMO

 

[Fight4justice]

Jake lies about everything in my opinion

 

[Loomis124]

Looking forward to getting on with these proceedings. January 2 is back to work!!

 

[Betty P]

Jake lies about everything in my opinion

Perhaps he has a sociopathic personality, meaning he lies to people to manipulate them for his own gain. Sociopaths can be very good actors, telling people what they want to hear or painting a flattering image of himself. Most of us know people like this. JW's behavior in the courtroom suggests this personality type - all smiles and "yes sir" to the judge to create the impression he has a clean conscience and didn't do anything wrong. The problem is, like many sociopaths, that smooth-talking, charming veneer can hide a terrible, violent temper when things don't go his way.

Compulsive Pathological Lying

Sociopaths lie for the following reasons

• For protection – to create a false persona of who they really are
• So that you do not find out about them and their past
• So that they can manipulate and deceive you, for their own gain
• To be in control
• To lure you into a false sense of security, so that you become addicted to them
• Telling you all that you want to hear
• They don’t care about you or your feelings, winning and being in control, is the most important thing
• They suffer from boredom easily
• To gain sympathy and play victim
• They find it easier to lie than to tell the truth
• The sociopath feels safer behind the lie. The lie is the sociopaths friend and is the sociopaths mask of protection

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Perhaps he has a sociopathic personality, meaning he lies to people to manipulate them for his own gain. Sociopaths can be very good actors, telling people what they want to hear or painting a flattering image of himself. Most of us know people like this. JW's behavior in the courtroom suggests this personality type - all smiles and "yes sir" to the judge to create the impression he has a clean conscience and didn't do anything wrong. The problem is, like many sociopaths, that smooth-talking, charming veneer can hide a terrible, violent temper when things don't go his way.

Compulsive Pathological Lying



MOO

Scary. His smiling takes on new meaning when you put it that way -- that he is a sociopath hiding behind a smooth veneer.

Pike County murders: Court docs give insight into custody battle

If this is true from the custody docs, and we know Jake lies, but if true it explains why they started planning the murders when they did:

"In the custody documents, Wagner said he and Rhoden dated exclusively before Sophia was conceived and after she was born. But in March 2015, he said “Hanna decided that I worked too much and that I did not have enough time for her.” Wagner stated in the documents they stopped living together but stayed involved in a “non-exclusive romantic relationship” and shared parenting of Sophia.

In September 2015, Wagner said Rhoden broke off the relationship, but said they decided to share custody and parenting of Sophia.

Prosecutors say Wagner and his family started planning the killings just four months later.

The murders being discussed and then actually planned seems to tie directly into Hanna breaking off their intimacy.

They were sharing Sophia and also spending nights together which was tolerable for Jake. He gets to see Sophia more often that way and also has hope he and Hanna get back together. He hopes she will get over her "phase."

He is quoted saying that he thought "Hanna leaving was just a phase."
From this article:
Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

When she does not get intimate with him again and instead gets intimate and committed with someone else, he realizes it's really over and the jealousy burns. Now she "owes" him primary custody because it's the least she can do after dumping (betraying) him and taking away his daughter 50% of the time. Plus exposing her to other men/step-dads.

...2 Cents....Just trying to wrap my head around the motive...but why 8?
This is obviously all about Jake and Hanna not everyone else. I will never understand the motive for attacking the entire family.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

Scary. His smiling takes on new meaning when you put it that way -- that he is a sociopath hiding behind a smooth veneer.

https://www.whio.com/news/crime--la...battle-heart-killings/ROL3TW5gmSCTNy8XUjVVDJ/

If this is true from the custody docs, and we know Jake lies, but if true it explains why they started planning the murders when they did:

"In the custody documents, Wagner said he and Rhoden dated exclusively before Sophia was conceived and after she was born. But in March 2015, he said “Hanna decided that I worked too much and that I did not have enough time for her.” Wagner stated in the documents they stopped living together but stayed involved in a “non-exclusive romantic relationship” and shared parenting of Sophia.

In September 2015, Wagner said Rhoden broke off the relationship, but said they decided to share custody and parenting of Sophia.

Prosecutors say Wagner and his family started planning the killings just four months later.

The murders being discussed and then actually planned seems to tie directly into Hanna breaking off their intimacy.

They were sharing Sophia and also spending nights together which was tolerable for Jake. He gets to see Sophia more often that way and also has hope he and Hanna get back together. He hopes she will get over her "phase."

He is quoted saying: "I thought Hanna leaving was just a phase."

When she does not get intimate with him again and instead gets intimate and committed with someone else, he realizes it's really over and the jealousy burns. Now she "owes" him primary custody because it's the least she can do after dumping him and taking away his daughter 50% of the time. Plus exposing her to other men/step-dads.

...2 Cents....Just trying to wrap my head around the motive.

This is my thinking as well. I think the thought of Hannah with another guy lit a fire in Jake. Then custody comes up because there is no way he wants Sophie around another guy. Also, if Jake cant have Hannah nobody can, including his own daughter. If guilty it really paints a picture of how selfish and cruel that family really is. They didn't think of what these actions would do to those poor children.

Its for these reasons I don't think plea deals should be on the table for any of them. Zero leniency was shown to the victims. The killers should reap what they've sown.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Perhaps he has a sociopathic personality, meaning he lies to people to manipulate them for his own gain. Sociopaths can be very good actors, telling people what they want to hear or painting a flattering image of himself. Most of us know people like this. JW's behavior in the courtroom suggests this personality type - all smiles and "yes sir" to the judge to create the impression he has a clean conscience and didn't do anything wrong. The problem is, like many sociopaths, that smooth-talking, charming veneer can hide a terrible, violent temper when things don't go his way.

Compulsive Pathological Lying



MOO

Great article and summation. Thank you.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

This is my thinking as well. I think the thought of Hannah with another guy lit a fire in Jake. Then custody comes up because there is no way he wants Sophie around another guy. Also, if Jake cant have Hannah nobody can, including his own daughter. If guilty it really paints a picture of how selfish and cruel that family really is. They didn't think of what these actions would do to those poor children.

Its for these reasons I don't think plea deals should be on the table for any of them. Zero leniency was shown to the victims. The killers should reap what they've sown.

I wonder why the Wagners didn’t kill Hanna Mays boyfriend, Corey Holden?

 

[Berrybell]

I wonder why the Wagners didn’t kill Hanna Mays boyfriend, Corey Holden?

That is a very good question JBB.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I wonder why the Wagners didn’t kill Hanna Mays boyfriend, Corey Holden?

If I had to guess I'd say because they didnt do any surveillance on his whereabouts. Probably couldn't come up with an alibi for his death.

It would also paint them as suspects even further seeing as CH was dating Hannah.

 

[Puzzles8]

I wonder why the Wagners didn’t kill Hanna Mays boyfriend, Corey Holden?

Because the motive of the massacre would have been too obvious if they had gone out of their way to eliminate either CG or CH.

JMO, MOO