OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[Cool Cats]

"Transcripts" is my word, not AC's. She said the defense was particularly wanting specific conversations. In my opinion, those conversations would have to be transcribed in order to be presented as discovery and entered into the court record as evidence--just as with the transcribed conversations between RN and AW. IMO

If used against them in court,
the defense always gets the actual tapes to listen to and tries to interpret the intent of the conversation with their own spin on it. Transcripts are standard so they can be filed with the discovery evidence like Angela's jail phone calls were.

The defense can also use the conversations to turn things around, like say if the Wagners go on and on about being innocent the defense can say:

"They say they didn't do it - they were just venting about revenge in the heat of the moment - they were joking about a jail break - wouldn't you (jury) be angry if you were innocent and LE is harrassing you? Etc..."

But if they confess to the murders on tape and the judge allows the jury to hear it there won't be much damage control the defense can do. Think Gotti. Fu-get'a-bout- it!

...2 Cents...

 

[IType]

Good catch on the “specific conversations”

I didn’t hear AC use the word transcripts, (maybe purposely) but the Defense attorney did say transcripts.

Regarding the mention of the great volume of audio, recordings, transcripts, in pretrial video yesterday, I thought it was very interesting and telling.

The State seems to indicate Prosecutors have so very much audio recordings, transcripts, etc, that State is willing (I’m surprised by this) to indicate to Defense specific portions of the massive volume of audio recordings or transcripts in their possession that they may use.
To me, the emphasis on volume could indicate many different sources of audio, people, places, times.

The theory of a wire is a possibility.

Paraphrasing below as my audio is not clear in places.
Corrections, or clarifications are welcome.

Begin At approx 3: 18 AC states

...there has been a request that we focus ...on recordings and such.. again...voluminous amounts .... so to direct them towards a specific piece of evidence we may use at trial....

Begin At approx 4:40 Defense states

....state has...indicated...portions of audio recordings...audio transcripts... they have and will use... (more that I can’t understand what he is saying)


I have noticed AC is very careful with her words.

(highlighted in red by me for emphasis) IMO, the state, in essence, did the same thing at one of GW4's hearings in 2019 when the defense wanted information on DNA specifically for GW4 and AC clearly stated that there was no DNA evidence involving GW4. IMO

 

[Ann99]

If used against them in court,
the defense always gets the actual tapes to listen to and tries to interpret the intent of the conversation with their own spin on it. Transcripts are standard so they can be filed with the discovery evidence like Angela's jail phone calls were.

The defense can also use the conversations to turn things around, like say if the Wagners go on and on about being innocent the defense can say "see they didn't do it and they were just venting about revenge in the heat of the moment and not serious about it, and it's obvious they were joking about a jail break. Wouldn't you (jury) be angry if you were innocent and LE is harrassing you? Etc.......

But if they confess to the murders on tape and the judge allows the jury to hear it there won't be much damage control the defense can do. Think Gotti. Fu-get'a-bout- it!

Right. Defense will interpret audio recordings and transcripts as what is convenient for their side and dispute their content, tone, meaning.

 

[IType]

DBM, duplicate post

 

[Ann99]

(highlighted in red by me for emphasis) IMO, the state, in essence, did the same thing at one of GW4's hearings in 2019 when the defense wanted information on DNA specifically for GW4 and AC clearly stated that there was no DNA evidence involving GW4. IMO

yes, so to me that statement by AC of - no DNA evidence involving GW4 - could mean there is DNA of someone, just not GW4.
AC is very careful with her words, as a good prosecutor should be.
moo

 

[IType]

yes, so to me that statement by AC of - no DNA evidence involving GW4 - could mean there is DNA of someone, just not GW4.
AC is very careful with her words, as a good prosecutor should be.
moo

I agree

 

[IType]

Fred said he looked like he lost weight after his last court date.

This news clip about 20 seconds in, is intersting. The reporter actually comments on GW4's weight loss, saying:

"Wagner's appearance is quite different from when he first came into this courthouse about a year ago take a look. Showing a significant loss of weight from when he first appeared in court in early 2019. George Wagner heard once again how the evidence against him was overwhelming according to prosecutors and the judge."

They show video comparing how he used to look.

Pretrial hearing for George Wagner IV in Pike County murder case
(January 21st, 2020)

Adding to the discussion of how different GW4 looks--later in the video clip linked above there is a shot of all the W4's pictures side by side. Not exactly sure which pretrial hearing the photo of GW4 is from, possibly his most recent hearing in September (before RN changing plea to guilty). You can see a very visible difference in GW4's face just from that photo as compared to how he looked in court yesterday. Maybe his maternal grandmother's guilty plea has been weighing on him. Hopefully so. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Adding to the discussion of how different GW4 looks--later in the video clip linked above there is a shot of all the W4's pictures side by side. Not exactly sure which pretrial hearing the photo of GW4 is from, possibly his most recent hearing in September (before RN changing plea to guilty). You can see a very visible difference in GW4's face just from that photo as compared to how he looked in court yesterday. Maybe his maternal grandmother's guilty plea has been weighing on him. Hopefully so. IMO

Arraignment George Wagner IV
How he looked then - Nov. 28, 2018

Wagner Arraignments - 77 PHOTOS

 

[Loomis124]

Has anyone been able to find GWIV's Discovery from yesterday? Thanks.

 

[Berrybell]

GWIV definitely looks very concerned and very aggravated both. I believe he has realized the situation is very serious and he had nothing to gain anyway. He is in a lose/lose situation...

What I saw was controlled fury IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

^^ This is sopose to go with his photos posted above ^^


What he looks like now

 

[OhioBlues]

Has anyone been able to find GWIV's Discovery from yesterday? Thanks.

It's in the Media Timeline.

 

[sunshineray]

January 21st, 2020 George Wagner IV hearing:

Thanks for posting this CoolCats. Thing that struck me was how much his weigh loss has shrunk him. His profile looks a lot like his brother's now. Yeah he looked very agitated to me, clenching his jaw and breathing hard thru his nose. I don't think he likes jail life very much and for sure doesn't like being dragged to the courthouse. AJMO

 

[Loomis124]

It's in the Media Timeline.

Thanks!

 

[IType]

All IMO

In the supplemental discovery filed yesterday for JW (possibly for all of the W4?) there is reference to the search warrants for Bethel Hill Road and Flying W Farms on 11/4/19, but there is a notation that those documents are sealed. Per OhioBlue's post above, these documents can be found on the last page of the medial & timeline thread.

There is also mention of a "proffer recording" of RN from 11/18/19, which I believe is the date that her trial was to begin but was cancelled. Wasn't sure what proffer recording was so looked it up:

"What is a proffer agreement?
Proffer or "queen for a day" letters are written agreements between federal prosecutors and individuals under criminal investigation which permit these individuals to tell the government about their knowledge of crimes, with the supposed assurance that their words will not be used against them in any later proceedings."

Queen For A Day: The Dangerous Game of Proffers, Proffer Agreements and Proffer Letters | Solomon L. Wisenberg. | Washington D.C.

There is also notation of "Lab report of Rebecca Barrett from additional questioned documents comparisons". Apparently this person is a handwriting expert per the link below.

BarrettRebecca Ohio Bureau Of Criminal Investigation
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/oles/MSSFHA_Registration_List.pdf

 

[Myland]

Did anyone realize that BW's attorneys Mark Collins and Kaitlyn Stephens (latter said to be working for free) were Joel Jenkins' attorneys? Why is this not a conflict of interest since Jenkins was a member of the Pike County Sheriff's office and involved personally with Rob Junk? I cannot believe this perverted system of justice! And Ross and Scioto counties are just as bad if not worse. Geez. When will someone get elected to go in there and clean house?

Joel Jenkins former deputy accused of killing a man, expected to testify later today

Yes

 

[Myland]

All IMO

In the supplemental discovery filed yesterday for JW (possibly for all of the W4?) there is reference to the search warrants for Bethel Hill Road and Flying W Farms on 11/4/19, but there is a notation that those documents are sealed. Per OhioBlue's post above, these documents can be found on the last page of the medial & timeline thread.

There is also mention of a "proffer recording" of RN from 11/18/19, which I believe is the date that her trial was to begin but was cancelled. Wasn't sure what proffer recording was so looked it up:

"What is a proffer agreement?
Proffer or "queen for a day" letters are written agreements between federal prosecutors and individuals under criminal investigation which permit these individuals to tell the government about their knowledge of crimes, with the supposed assurance that their words will not be used against them in any later proceedings."

Queen For A Day: The Dangerous Game of Proffers, Proffer Agreements and Proffer Letters | Solomon L. Wisenberg. | Washington D.C.

There is also notation of "Lab report of Rebecca Barrett from additional questioned documents comparisons". Apparently this person is a handwriting expert per the link below.

BarrettRebecca Ohio Bureau Of Criminal Investigation
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/oles/MSSFHA_Registration_List.pdf

Jmo but if you listen to one of the early court appearances Gerlach at the end was explaining proffer to Rita. So I don’t think the proffer was something that was an after thought after Gerlach supposedly found out it wasn’t Rita’s signature. Jmo he probably knew from the start it wasn’t her signature just like Fw attorney knew the actual purchase date and how to obtain the receipts of the body armor. Jmo

 

[Loomis124]

Adding to the discussion of how different GW4 looks--later in the video clip linked above there is a shot of all the W4's pictures side by side. Not exactly sure which pretrial hearing the photo of GW4 is from, possibly his most recent hearing in September (before RN changing plea to guilty). You can see a very visible difference in GW4's face just from that photo as compared to how he looked in court yesterday. Maybe his maternal grandmother's guilty plea has been weighing on him. Hopefully so. IMO

I hope her plea is weighing on all of them. You'd think all four would be beginning to see the oncoming train now! JMO

 

[Loomis124]

All IMO

In the supplemental discovery filed yesterday for JW (possibly for all of the W4?) there is reference to the search warrants for Bethel Hill Road and Flying W Farms on 11/4/19, but there is a notation that those documents are sealed. Per OhioBlue's post above, these documents can be found on the last page of the medial & timeline thread.

There is also mention of a "proffer recording" of RN from 11/18/19, which I believe is the date that her trial was to begin but was cancelled. Wasn't sure what proffer recording was so looked it up:

"What is a proffer agreement?
Proffer or "queen for a day" letters are written agreements between federal prosecutors and individuals under criminal investigation which permit these individuals to tell the government about their knowledge of crimes, with the supposed assurance that their words will not be used against them in any later proceedings."

Queen For A Day: The Dangerous Game of Proffers, Proffer Agreements and Proffer Letters | Solomon L. Wisenberg. | Washington D.C.

There is also notation of "Lab report of Rebecca Barrett from additional questioned documents comparisons". Apparently this person is a handwriting expert per the link below.

BarrettRebecca Ohio Bureau Of Criminal Investigation
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/oles/MSSFHA_Registration_List.pdf

Well, you have certainly brought up some things to think about.

I can't readily find proffer being used at the State level. From what I found, "Forgery" is a white collar crime and "big stuff."

All of a sudden, after seeing the latest Discovery and noting the dates, I believe the Prosecution found some overwhelming evidence in the latest searches and used it as bargaining chips with RN. Apparently it was enough to shake her hard and heavy. JMO But what was it??

Or could it be that RN, along with the others, is part of a much, much bigger crime- the undercurrent of drugs - and faces hard time for Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity? The SECOND motive for the murders? Just my opinion, thinking out loud.

 

[lisette]

GW4 really resembles Jake since he has lost weight in his face.