OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Cool Cats]

IIRC, even though their first attorney claimed they had given DNA samples to LE, I'm not sure I believe his account. I think their DNA wasn't collected until after the arrest. JMO

The Wagners' attorney said they cooperated with LE by:

• Providing laptops, phones and DNA willingly to authorities.
• Agreeing to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation agents in the last year.
• Telling authorities they were traveling - and then moving - to Alaska, a place they have contemplated relocating for a decade.
• Offering information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims.
• Lawyer: AG harassing family named in Rhoden case 'because the authorities are clueless'

It's fingerprints and palm prints they didn't get until arrests, for Jake anyway, I think Scheiderer said this at the Bond Hearing. They compared his palm print to the palm print holding the 1911.22 photo, prints I think he said they got after they arrested him.

 

[Betty P]

DNA evidence listed in GW4's Discovery - link above.

5-19-16, 6-14-16, 9-12-16, 9-13-17 (253 pp)

6-3-16, 1-12-17, 3-8-17, 9-13-17 (253 pp)

4-23-16 (27 pp)
4-23-16 (79 pp)

4-26-16 (52 pp)
4-26-16 (40 pp)

4-30-16 (80 pp)

5-5-16 (46 pp)

8-24-17 (19 pp)
8-24-17 (43 pp)

Without having more information, it's difficult to say whose DNA lab work is listed here - victims, members of the Manley family, killers, investigators, etc. State has to provide information about all the DNA evidence at the crime scenes and elsewhere to explain what they think happened and how, which blood spatter or drops belonged to whom. It's all part of State's re-enactment of the crimes so that jury members can visualize what happened in each location.

As for GW4's attorney mentioning a "former" LE officer, he's gotta defend a very guilty client with not much exonerating evidence. He's swinging for the fences.

I'm going with the attorney describing an officer who worked for the investigation, but isn't any longer. If he can bend that definition enough to plant something misleading in his motion that starts even a tiny rumor on social media, he's earned his paycheck. Notice none of the reporters in the established news media covering the trials picked up on or reported the creative wording.

JMO

 

[Loomis124]

DNA evidence listed in GW4's Discovery - link above.

5-19-16, 6-14-16, 9-12-16, 9-13-17 (253 pp)

6-3-16, 1-12-17, 3-8-17, 9-13-17 (253 pp)

4-23-16 (27 pp)
4-23-16 (79 pp)

4-26-16 (52 pp)
4-26-16 (40 pp)

4-30-16 (80 pp)

5-5-16 (46 pp)

8-24-17 (19 pp)
8-24-17 (43 pp)

It drives me nuts that I can't figure out at least something about the DNA evidence!

 

[Betty P]

The Wagners' attorney said they cooperated with LE by:

• Providing laptops, phones and DNA willingly to authorities.
• Agreeing to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation agents in the last year.
• Telling authorities they were traveling - and then moving - to Alaska, a place they have contemplated relocating for a decade.
• Offering information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims.
• Lawyer: AG harassing family named in Rhoden case 'because the authorities are clueless'

It's fingerprints and palm prints they didn't get until arrests, for Jake anyway, I think Scheiderer said this at the Bond Hearing. They compared his palm print to the palm print holding the 1911.22 photo, prints I think he said they got after they arrested him.

I understand all that. I'm just saying I don't believe what that attorney said. This was the guy helping them before the arrests, when they were on the run to AK and hadn't had much face to face interaction with LE (mostly a few phone and video interviews).

Not saying the lawyer was lying, but the Wagners may have been. Why would any of the Wagners give LE a sample of their DNA, but not fingerprints?

"They did this quickly, coldly, calmly and very carefully — but not carefully enough. They left traces, they left a trail — the parts to build a silencer, the forged documents, the cameras, cell phones, all that they tampered with. And the lies, all the lies they told us."

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader

 

[Betty P]

It drives me nuts that I can't figure out at least something about the DNA evidence!

DNA from the first days of the investigation might be victims, BJ and James Manley, Donald Stone, etc. Even if Jake happened to give them his DNA, it seems unlikely he would have done so in the first week or so. JMO

We'll find out when the first trial begins, at the latest. Who knows, we may learn more at Jake's October hearing.

 

[Cool Cats]

Without having more information, it's difficult to say whose DNA lab work is listed here - victims, members of the Manley family, killers, investigators, etc. State has to provide information about all the DNA evidence at the crime scenes and elsewhere to explain what they think happened and how, which blood spatter or drops belonged to whom. It's all part of State's re-enactment of the crimes so that jury members can visualize what happened in each location.

As for GW4's attorney mentioning a "former" LE officer, he's gotta defend a very guilty client with not much exonerating evidence. He's swinging for the fences.

I'm going with the attorney describing an officer who worked for the investigation, but isn't any longer. If he can bend that definition enough to plant something misleading in his motion that starts even a tiny rumor on social media, he's earned his paycheck. Notice none of the reporters in the established news media covering the trials picked up on or reported the creative wording.

JMO

Yes, no doubt all this DNA evidence covers many people and not just the Wagners.
There is so much it probably includes DNA samples not found at the scenes but given as samples to BCI.

The Bond Motion was too general and too predictable so not much coverage on it other than an article listing statements the defense made in the Motion.

Now if Billy has a Bond Hearing in court that will get more coverage.

The prosecution responded to Billy's Bond Motion and I wonder if their response was what made the defense back down - postpone - the Bond Hearing? It's been 2 months and still the defense hasn't rescheduled Billy's Bond Hearing....Humm....

06/22/2020
MOTION OF THE STATE OF OHIO IN A CAPITAL CASE AND PURSUANT TO STATUTE TO HOLD THE DEFENDANT WITHOUT BAIL

07/29/2020
DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO CONTINUE BOND MOTION HEARING AND STATUS CONFERENCE

2 Cents

 

[Loomis124]

DNA from the first days of the investigation might be victims, BJ and James Manley, Donald Stone, etc. Even if Jake happened to give them his DNA, it seems unlikely he would have done so in the first week or so. JMO

We'll find out when the first trial begins, at the latest. Who knows, we may learn more at Jake's October hearing.

I have to say, I'm proud of how BCI and LE have kept these cases and investigations secret from the beginning. I'm sure that has been very difficult.

 

[Loomis124]

Just a thought...why did GW4 and Jake die their hair before the murders? Simply to look more like the brothers in the Boondock Saints movie?

 

[Cool Cats]

I understand all that. I'm just saying I don't believe what that attorney said. This was the guy helping them before the arrests, when they were on the run to AK and hadn't had much face to face interaction with LE (mostly a few phone and video interviews).

Not saying the lawyer was lying, but the Wagners may have been. Why would any of the Wagners give LE a sample of their DNA, but not fingerprints?

"They did this quickly, coldly, calmly and very carefully — but not carefully enough. They left traces, they left a trail — the parts to build a silencer, the forged documents, the cameras, cell phones, all that they tampered with. And the lies, all the lies they told us."

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader

Interesting point. Why give DNA but not prints? Pretty good chance the Wagners,
Jake and Angela, lied to their attorney. Easy to do. I'm sure they are lying to their current death penalty attorneys right now so why not lie to their first attorney? No reason not to...Opinion only

I like the way Jake's attorney brushed him off in court when he complained about someone in the court gallery, I think staring at him. Probably a relative tired of waiting and tired of Jake smiling..2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

Just a thought...why did GW4 and Jake die their hair before the murders? Simply to look more like the brothers in the Boondock Saints movie?

I didn't think much about the hair dye being significant in any way until it came up in the Bond Hearing. It came up that CN told BCI about it and also a lady saw the hair dye right before and right after the murders. And right after the murders she said they started locking their gate.

So this lady drops off her car to the Wagners for them to fix it right before the murders, then she goes and picks it back up right after the murders.

Coincidence? Or was it planned to look like they were too busy working to have time to plan and then run out to commit 8 murders? Weird.

 

[Loomis124]

As for a former LE's DNA being found at one of the crime scenes, I doubt this is a big deal (unless we get some real details). See EVIDENCE COLLECTION section of the linked article.

How Can a Person's DNA Be Found at a Crime Scene?

 

[Loomis124]

I didn't think much about the hair dye being significant in any way until it came up in the Bond Hearing. It came up that CN told BCI about it and also a lady saw the hair dye right before and right after the murders. And right after the murders she said they started locking their gate.

So this lady drops off her car to the Wagners for them to fix it right before the murders, then she goes and picks it back up right after the murders.

Coincidence? Or was it planned to look like they were too busy working to have time to plan and then run out to commit 8 murders? Weird.

Oh, no, it's clear the 4 planned, which I know you know.

I think they waited so the dye would be fresh Also betcha a pretty penny that hair dye is on a receipt found, most likely Angela's Walmart receipt, or one her 400 pages of Amazon orders.JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Oh, no, it's clear the 4 planned, which I know you know.

I think they waited so the dye would be fresh Also betcha a pretty penny that hair dye is on a receipt found, most likely Angela's Walmart receipt, or one her 400 pages of Amazon orders.JMO

So I went back and checked, your right, her Discovery has a bunch of Amazon orders in it.

When I mentioned planned I meant did they actually plan to have this lady drop off her car right before the murders then plan to have her pick it back up right after?

Maybe not, which could mean they were just waiting for the "right" day as opposed to picking the exact date ahead of time.

2 Cents

 

[Loomis124]

Just another thought...how could anyone carrying out these murders have not been sweating profusely (DNA) considering they were covered head to toe? But then why color their hair only to cover it?

 

[Antimony]

Have the victims toxicology tests been released yet?

 

[Tiff23fr]

IIRC, even though their first attorney claimed they had given DNA samples to LE, I'm not sure I believe his account. I think their DNA wasn't collected until after the arrest. JMO

Would Jakes have been collected fairly early on during the paternity testing of the new infant?

Angela's -Fingerprints would have been on file from her military service in take medical exam (from what I have read so it's an opinion). Her DNA though likely wasn't as it seems that part didn't start until 1992.

It is also possible Billy and Angela's finger prints were on file from the previous arrests. JMO

All that being said, I'm not sure how the databases cross collaborate for information sharing.

 

[Betty P]

Would Jakes have been collected fairly early on during the paternity testing of the new infant?

Others can recall this discussion better than I, but Jake never took a paternity test for Hanna May's second child. IIRC, the child's father did and was proven to be the parent.

Jake did mention going over to Hanna May's some days/weeks prior to the murders to help Hanna put a new crib together for the baby. Some have speculated he said that to cover himself in case any of his DNA was found there.
Given what we know and was recently confirmed about relations between JW and HR just prior to the murders, you have to wonder if he's lying about that.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Have the victims toxicology tests been released yet?

No. Full autopsy reports are still heavily redacted. News media was allowed to view the preliminary AR's just before the Wagner arrests, but that's all.

 

[Betty P]

Interesting point. Why give DNA but not prints? Pretty good chance the Wagners,
Jake and Angela, lied to their attorney. Easy to do. I'm sure they are lying to their current death penalty attorneys right now so why not lie to their first attorney? No reason not to...Opinion only

I like the way Jake's attorney brushed him off in court when he complained about someone in the court gallery, I think staring at him. Probably a relative tired of waiting and tired of Jake smiling..2 Cents...

After that I really want to go to his next hearing and glare at him from the gallery. If the woman who stared at him the other day is who she is rumored to be, it makes you wonder why he didn't recognize her.

 

[LeftEyed]

I didn't think much about the hair dye being significant in any way until it came up in the Bond Hearing. It came up that CN told BCI about it and also a lady saw the hair dye right before and right after the murders. And right after the murders she said they started locking their gate.

So this lady drops off her car to the Wagners for them to fix it right before the murders, then she goes and picks it back up right after the murders.

Coincidence? Or was it planned to look like they were too busy working to have time to plan and then run out to commit 8 murders? Weird.

She Dropped her car off with the Ws before the murders, picked it up after the murders.
I often wonder what the killers were driving. Or whose car they were driving (wink wink)