OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Cool Cats]

CC, in a civil suits the Wagners can each be called to the witness stand and have to answer questions about the murders and in the criminal trials the Wagners do not have to testify against their self and each other, am I right by saying this???? JMO

In a civil case they may or may not want to testify, their choice, they don't have to. Most do, your outcome is better.

Husbands and wives cannot be made to testify against each other, co-defendants cannot be made to testify against each other. 2 of the Wagners are married and all 4 are co-defendants.

Even if they were all tried separately in civil court (too expensive) and somehow ended up as a witness, they could plead the 5th.

2 cents

 

[Betty P]

CC and Puzzles,

I don't think the state will agree to a deal with Jake.

They want Jake to stand trial first for a reason.

I think it's possible that they wouldn't make a deal with AW either (if it happened the way that I think that it did).

I don't think 'ringleaders' get deals in Ohio (but who knows).

All jmo.

Agree, the prosecution is using a different strategy than when they were dealing with Rita Newcomb and Fredericka Wagner. They wanted someone to take a plea agreement then. This time, they want Jake to go first because he had the main motive and most of the evidence of his planning and execution of the crimes. The 4 Wagners have from now until Jake's August trial date to change their mind and ask for a plea deal. JMO

 

[Betty P]

MO
I find the tattoo (s) very interesting.
I dont know anything about tats so I am googling all the possible info and the meanings of each. The meaning can vary... It has been discussed before but very briefly.
A possible interpretation of the Scorpion or the other if it is is a skull, 8 ball and aces...could be strong evidence...

If only the tat artist could speak or testify.

Purposely vague - I find it very significant that a tattoo artist was arrested in a major drug sweep of the area a few years ago.
I have always wondered if that person was the W 's Tat artist.
We will see eventually, I hope. MO.

Yes, they did have tattoos.

What Does Boondock Saints Tattoo Mean? | Represent Symbolism

Most popular is "Veritas" "Aequitas" tattooed on the side of the index fingers or on forearms. There are lots of others.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe I am reading too much into this.
Read it before it is deleted. I did self report as above.

A Small-Town Official Was Ousted and Headed to Prison. Then He Vanished. - NewsAAA

Apparently this has been discussed a little in the past. Sorry, I missed it.
page 7.
I am seeing a wide range of very shady characters that seem to be around FW and residing in the Pike County area. Birds of afeather flock together.
What do you all think? Why would she have been a subject to depose?
Character witness?
Timing? Was this intent to depose before the arrest of her fugitive companion?
Sorry for being unaware of this discussion.

Oh, yeah, I remember this couple. We discussed them a few months ago. He has dementia and was abandoned by someone along the highway near the local Walmart or something.

FW probably has a lot of acquaintances with shady, criminal pasts. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sluthers according to detective Schrider during GW4 bond hearing he said that Billy had not lived with family for a while, I would also bet FW is scarred that Angela is going to throw Billy under the bus!!! JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Sluthers according to detective Schrider during GW4 bond hearing he said that Billy had not lived with family for a while, I would also bet FW is scarred that Angela is going to throw Billy under the bus!!! JMO

The Wagners are too interconnected with the same evidence to point fingers.

If these co-defendants admit "yes a family member did it" then they automatically incriminate themselves.

They are better off to point fingers at someone not connected to them which apparently FW has done. Grandma wants to "help."

 

[Betty P]

The Wagners are too interconnected with the same evidence to point fingers.

If these co-defendants admit "yes a family member did it" then they automatically incriminate themselves.

They are better off to point fingers at someone not connected to them which apparently FW has done. Grandma wants to "help."

They might make a deal if it means LWOP instead of the death penalty.

 

[OhioBlues]

They might make a deal if it means LWOP instead of the death penalty.

It seems like GW4 has reacted differently thru this than the other 3. I don't think that he would take that deal but you never know.

jmo

 

[OhioBlues]

G4 is the only one of the 4 that answered the civil suit. Does that mean he is the only one that thinks he may be found not guilty? Not answering could be construed as admitting guilt although not technically. A default judgment will be filed against the other 3 and granted. FW has at least one trust made in
Sept 1993 so most of her assets are probably protected and would be hard to get. Robin is the trustee of that irrevocable trust amended in Feb, 2019.

Do you have any idea about what names were on this trust on April 21/22 2016?

The W4 were all in jail when this was filed with the Pike County Recorder in 2019.

 

[Covert Operative]

Do you have any idea about what names were on this trust on April 21/22 2016?

The W4 were all in jail when this was filed with the Pike County Recorder in 2019.

I believe the trustee was Fredericka, no I do not know who were or are beneficiaries of the trust.

 

[Dudly]

It seems like GW4 has reacted differently thru this than the other 3. I don't think that he would take that deal but you never know.

jmo

I am not sure what to think about his behavior in court. He seems to be very upset, or angry, about being there. It could be that is because they thought they wouldn’t be caught. It could be because he had very little involvement and got charged anyway. Or, it could be his normal personality that the public normally does not see. MOO...

 

[Cool Cats]

CC and Puzzles,

I don't think the state will agree to a deal with Jake.

They want Jake to stand trial first for a reason.

I think it's possible that they wouldn't make a deal with AW either (if it happened the way that I think that it did).

I don't think 'ringleaders' get deals in Ohio (but who knows).

All jmo.

Do you have the article where Billy's attorney says he's the mastermind?
Unless Billy's attorney is lying the prosecution said Billy is the mastermind.

However, from just what we know - up to now - it also looks to me like Angela and Jake are the masterminds, maybe with one exception, that being Chris's trailer.
It was Billy who was friends with Chris and got into a physical fight with him.
It is easy to picture Billy masterminding how they will ambush Chris.

Complete disaster at his house, disorganized crime scene, wouldn't even wait for Chris and Gary to be asleep. At all the other crime scenes they waited until everyone was aparently asleep, seems like someone else masterminded those scenes.

But over all Billy's name never came up in the Bond Hearing while Angela's and Jake's names came up through out, tying them to the evidence presented.

Billy did not live with them when the homicides occurred and he might not have been living with them when the murder kit was purchased using Angie's computer for the online purchases.

Angie's laptop had the screenshots.

Angie, George and Jake are tied to the bloody shoe prints at 2 homicide screens.

Jake's gun is tied to shell casings on his property matching shell casings at the crime scenes.

Angie is the one who tried to get her mom to lie about fake signatures on fake documents.

The fake custody forms that were downloaded involve Angela getting custody not Billy. Billy did not even live with his grandkids.

Point is, if Billy is the mastermind he's nowhere to be found - yet.

Just how it looks to me right now

 

[Betty P]

Do you have the article where Billy's attorney says he's the mastermind?
Unless Billy's attorney is lying the prosecution said Billy is the mastermind.

However, from just what we know - up to now - it also looks to me like Angela and Jake are the masterminds, maybe with one exception, that being Chris's trailer.
It was Billy who was friends with Chris and got into a physical fight with him.
It is easy to picture Billy masterminding how they will ambush Chris.

Complete disaster at his house, disorganized crime scene, wouldn't even wait for Chris and Gary to be asleep. At all the other crime scenes they waited until everyone was aparently asleep, seems like someone else masterminded those scenes.

But over all Billy's name never came up in the Bond Hearing while Angela's and Jake's names came up through out, tying them to the evidence presented.

Billy did not live with them when the homicides occurred and he might not have been living with them when the murder kit was purchased using Angie's computer for the online purchases.

Angie's laptop had the screenshots.

Angie, George and Jake are tied to the bloody shoe prints at 2 homicide screens.

Jake's gun is tied to shell casings on his property matching shell casings at the crime scenes.

Angie is the one who tried to get her mom to lie about fake signatures on fake documents.

The fake custody forms that were downloaded involve Angela getting custody not Billy. Billy did not even live with his grandkids.

Point is, if Billy is the mastermind he's nowhere to be found - yet.

Just how it looks to me right now

The news media has occasionally reported that Angela is the mastermind

Grandmother charged with forging custody documents in Pike Co. massacre returns to court

Angela Canepa stated that Billy was the mastermind in one of the hearings last year.

 

[IType]

Do you have the article where Billy's attorney says he's the mastermind?
Unless Billy's attorney is lying the prosecution said Billy is the mastermind.

However, from just what we know - up to now - it also looks to me like Angela and Jake are the masterminds, maybe with one exception, that being Chris's trailer.
It was Billy who was friends with Chris and got into a physical fight with him.
It is easy to picture Billy masterminding how they will ambush Chris.

Complete disaster at his house, disorganized crime scene, wouldn't even wait for Chris and Gary to be asleep. At all the other crime scenes they waited until everyone was aparently asleep, seems like someone else masterminded those scenes.

But over all Billy's name never came up in the Bond Hearing while Angela's and Jake's names came up through out, tying them to the evidence presented.

Billy did not live with them when the homicides occurred and he might not have been living with them when the murder kit was purchased using Angie's computer for the online purchases.

Angie's laptop had the screenshots.

Angie, George and Jake are tied to the bloody shoe prints at 2 homicide screens.

Jake's gun is tied to shell casings on his property matching shell casings at the crime scenes.

Angie is the one who tried to get her mom to lie about fake signatures on fake documents.

The fake custody forms that were downloaded involve Angela getting custody not Billy. Billy did not even live with his grandkids.

Point is, if Billy is the mastermind he's nowhere to be found - yet.

Just how it looks to me right now

I have this quote below saved in my notes, but the link no longer works so will just have to be viewed as my opinion, I guess. The original published date is 11/26/18. I think this is from BW's arraignment, after he was brought back to OH from KY where he was arrested. The link for the video of BW's arraignment should be in the media and timeline thread somewhere if you want to check it for sure.

https://www.10tv.com/article/defense-attorney-pushes-move-rhoden-family-murder-trial

Published: 11/26/18 05:14 pm EST


Updated: 12/09/18 10:56 pm EST


Collins said investigators have labeled his client the mastermind of the murder plot but said Wagner has a seventh-grade education and no serious criminal history.

 

[Cool Cats]

The news media has occasionally reported that Angela is the mastermind

Grandmother charged with forging custody documents in Pike Co. massacre returns to court

Angela Canepa stated that Billy was the mastermind in one of the hearings last year.

Thanks.

This is the first time I remember seeing this:
(from your link)

"Angela Wagner is the suspected mastermind of the Rhoden/Gilley murders."

I am surprised to see it but yet not surprised because of what the evidence shows and how sickening controlling she is.

She told her mother what specific "buzz words" to use to explain the fake custody documents, the fake documents were written to give her custody and not the actual mothers, she told her mother not to testify against them, she arranged a 3-way call with Jake manipulating family members into setting it up, she used her sons' money to support herself from a shared bank account, she manipulated her sons into living with her all their lives including when married and engaged, and she was raising their children in place of the children's actual mothers.

I don't remember Canepa - from a hearing - saying Billy is the mastermind but thanks for telling me.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks.

This is the first time I remember seeing this:
(from your link)

"Angela Wagner is the suspected mastermind of the Rhoden/Gilley murders."

I am surprised to see it but yet not surprised because of what the evidence shows and how sickening controlling she is.

She told her mother what specific "buzz words" to use to explain the fake custody documents - that were written to give her custody and not the actual mothers - she told her mother not to testify against them, she arranged a 3-way call with Jake convincing her family to set it up, she used her sons' money to support herself from a shared bank account, she manipulated her sons into living with her all their lives including when married and engaged, and she was raising their children in place of the children's actual mothers.

I don't remember Canepa - from a hearing - saying Billy is the mastermind but thanks for telling me.

I do recall and made note of it after listening to the hearing. I was surprised, too, as I had assumed AW was in charge. Recall, though, that the Wagner cousin who was interviewed in one of those podcasts last year said that in the last couple of years, Billy had become very controlling of his family, implied he might have become violent.

JMO, that could imply that there was some domestic violence involved and may have been a reason for him to separate from his family and live at Flying W Farm. He was obviously a dangerous, violent person considering his past criminal record, his fight with CR Sr. just before the murders.

 

[Betty P]

I have this quote below saved in my notes, but the link no longer works so will just have to be viewed as my opinion, I guess. The original published date is 11/26/18. I think this is from BW's arraignment, after he was brought back to OH from KY where he was arrested. The link for the video of BW's arraignment should be in the media and timeline thread somewhere if you want to check it for sure.

https://www.10tv.com/article/defense-attorney-pushes-move-rhoden-family-murder-trial

Published: 11/26/18 05:14 pm EST


Updated: 12/09/18 10:56 pm EST


Collins said investigators have labeled his client the mastermind of the murder plot but said Wagner has a seventh-grade education and no serious criminal history.

JMO, Billy could have been the mastermind as far as planning their movements that night. @rsd1200 convinced me when she said the Wagners who were hunters would know how to case the crime scenes ahead of time, follow the habits of their victims, etc. Billy may have chosen which victims to target and how to do it, how to catch them asleep to maximize the element of surprise. Choosing weapons, ammo, brass catchers, etc.

 

[IType]

JMO, Billy could have been the mastermind as far as planning their movements that night. @rsd1200 convinced me when she said the Wagners who were hunters would know how to case the crime scenes ahead of time, follow the habits of their victims, etc. Billy may have chosen which victims to target and how to do it, how to catch them asleep to maximize the element of surprise. Choosing weapons, ammo, brass catchers, etc.

I agree. Just because his lawyer states he has a 7th grade education doesn't mean he isn't intelligent. BW has a driver's license, so had to pass an exam for that. He's not as dumb as his lawyer was trying to present him.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have this quote below saved in my notes, but the link no longer works so will just have to be viewed as my opinion, I guess. The original published date is 11/26/18. I think this is from BW's arraignment, after he was brought back to OH from KY where he was arrested. The link for the video of BW's arraignment should be in the media and timeline thread somewhere if you want to check it for sure.

https://www.10tv.com/article/defense-attorney-pushes-move-rhoden-family-murder-trial

Published: 11/26/18 05:14 pm EST

Updated: 12/09/18 10:56 pm EST

Collins said investigators have labeled his client the mastermind of the murder plot but said Wagner has a seventh-grade education and no serious criminal history.

Thanks!

I do recall and made note of it after listening to the hearing. I was surprised, too, as I had assumed AW was in charge. Recall, though, that the Wagner cousin who was interviewed in one of those podcasts last year said that in the last couple of years, Billy had become very controlling of his family, implied he might have become violent.

JMO, that could imply that there was some domestic violence involved and may have been a reason for him to separate from his family and live at Flying W Farm. He was obviously a dangerous, violent person considering his past criminal record, his fight with CR Sr. just before the murders.

The cousin also said that they were afraid of Billy yet they all traveled together and lived in AK together. Note that happy family photo of them with the children by a lake and the headline is "Greetings From Alaska."

So I'm just not getting this family dynamic at all.

I'm picturing Angela and Jake talking about getting custody and it morphs into a murder plot involving more and more victims as they plan it. George lives with them and hears everything then what? They invite Billy over for dinner saying they want to see if he will help with something?

He agrees to helping and then of course takes over the planning but Jake and George and Angie do all the "leg work."

Hacking, floor plans, fake documents, murder kit purchases, surveillance to locate cameras and locate dogs, directions on how to build silencers from maglite, etc...

Then it's time to invite Billy to come over on April 22nd to watch a favorite wholesome Wagner family movie together - Boondock Saints.

A video clip from this movie is in evidence and I bet it involves 2 brothers shooting victims in the head with silencers. I'm sure alot like what they actually did.

 

[Dudly]

I agree. Just because his lawyer states he has a 7th grade education doesn't mean he isn't intelligent. BW has a driver's license, so had to pass an exam for that. He's not as dumb as his lawyer was trying to present him.

I agree uneducated does not mean unintelligent. I worked with a guy that was education challenged but a mechanical genius. If a standard product we made needed a special attachment, they told him what it needed to do and he made the parts. His spelling and grammar was atrocious writing reports, but he was amazing at anything mechanical...