GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

[IType]

If Billy and George were opposed to Jake's plan, they would not have gone through with it. They went because they wanted to. They killed members of the Rhoden family because they wanted to kill them.

Jake didn't force them to do anything. Neither of them has demonstrated an ounce of regret, sadness or sympathy for their victims. Instead, they're full of anger every time they appear in court. They're angry that they were caught. The lives of the Rhodens meant nothing to them.

Respectfully, please back up a minute.

I never said jw forced his father or brother to do anything.

I simply stated that if BW felt JW was doing nothing but causing the family trouble he might have wanted to eliminate JW...much in the same way Dudley suggested in his post about a possible scenario of BW and JW killing the eight victims and then killing JW to make it look like a murder-suicide.

 

[Betty P]

Respectfully, please back up a minute.

I never said jw forced his father or brother to do anything.

I simply stated that if BW felt JW was doing nothing but causing the family trouble he might have wanted to eliminate JW...much in the same way Dudley suggested in his post about a possible scenario of BW and JW killing the eight victims and then killing JW to make it look like a murder-suicide.

If so, why didn't he just kill Jake? Why did he have to spend months planning and carrying out the murder of 8 innocent people first?

This sounds like a Racehorse Haynes strategy to get a killer acquitted. Can't argue that the murders didn't happen, so just argue that they were forced by Jake to kill them. If that doesn't work, argue they just went along to help with the murders so they would have a chance to kill Jake, too.

 

[Dudly]

If so, why didn't he just kill Jake? Why did he have to spend months planning and carrying out the murder of 8 innocent people first?

This sounds like a Racehorse Haynes strategy to get a killer acquitted. Can't argue that the murders didn't happen, so just argue that they were forced by Jake to kill them. If that doesn't work, argue they just went along to help with the murders so they would have a chance to kill Jake, too.

That was my scenario about making it look like JW did a murder suicide, not the Defense’s idea. BW would have gotten his revenge on CRsr and not get accused of doing it. BW and AW could get custody of SW because it was JW whom killed everyone and he was also dead. Just a possibility and my opinion only…

 

[Betty P]

That was my scenario about making it look like JW did a murder suicide, not the Defense’s idea. BW would have gotten his revenge on CRsr and not get accused of doing it. BW and AW could get custody of SW because it was JW whom killed everyone and he was also dead. Just a possibility and my opinion only…

Interesting. Well anything is possible.

Are you saying the claim that Billy was going to kill Jake is just a theory? TIA

 

[Betty P]

Respectfully, please back up a minute.

I never said jw forced his father or brother to do anything.

I simply stated that if BW felt JW was doing nothing but causing the family trouble he might have wanted to eliminate JW...much in the same way Dudley suggested in his post about a possible scenario of BW and JW killing the eight victims and then killing JW to make it look like a murder-suicide.

Ok, let me make sure I understand this correctly: These scenarios you and others are suggesting are just theories you're discussing? Because earlier in this thread the claims that George said Billy was going to kill Jake that night were presented as statements George 4's attorney claimed were factual.

If so, I'm stating that what that attorney is claiming is not factual and he's given no evidence to support it. It's not an accusation against you or anyone else here.

That's why this attorneys unsubstantiated claims are so difficult to discuss here. They're just his word, something he told a reporter or possibly filed in a motion. He might be making up this stuff.

JMO, George's attorney is fabricating these claims, all of them. Putting them in a motion doesnt make them true.

 

[Dudly]

Interesting. Well anything is possible.

Are you saying the claim that Billy was going to kill Jake is just a theory? TIA

It was mentioned that GWIV went along that night to protect JW from GWIII. My scenario was, if that were true, it possibly could have been because of using JW as a scapegoat for all the murders. If JW were dead, he couldn’t defend himself, accuse others, or get custody of SW. That would allow the possibility of AW getting SW because only JW would be guilty of the murders… All just possible theories on my part…

 

[Piffcat]

Ha! Said like someone who wants George convicted yesterday.



Wow, to make it look like it was Jake and Jake alone. Chilling for a father to be like this. Then Angie and Billy would apply for custody as next of kin not needing Jake to get custody.

To pin it on Jake or he didn't trust Jake or both.

They were in an angry frame of mind that night, would have to be full of rage, likely heated words were said to each other.

If Jake did say in his Proffer that George only went to protect Jake from Billy it could still be a lie to minimize George's involvement but it just doesn't matter even if true. The reason George went doesn't matter, just that he went. He was there.

It's my belief that as long as the jury believes he was at the crime scenes, at at least one crime scene, he will be convicted of all 8 murders and get what we all have been waiting years for: LWOP.

I don't think a jury will care if he went at the last second or went to protect Jake or didn't shoot or tried to talk them out of it or didn't intend to kill anyone. All that has to happen is:

1.) The jury believes that he was there.

2.) He knew the murders were going to happen that night.

3.) He never did anything to stop it - of which he could have easily done that night.

Defense:

George was at the crime scenes of 8 murders but never really intended to kill anyone so he isn't guilty of murder.

No intent = should be acquitted of 8 murders.

I have prime swamp property to give away if a jury acquits George of murder.

Your bold typeface statement says it all. Placing g4 at scene while simultaneously trying to minimize/ eliminate his culpability is ludicrous. g4 may think he has nothing to lose at trial vs taking loop deal. I'm looking forward to his angry psyco antics being broadcast for the whole country. These cult members and their attorneys want to attach so much importance to wagners lives and "rights." While they themselves killed viciously without provocation or remorse. Admitadly several victims in massacre killed for wrong place wrong time. Imo some of the attorneys don't have the stomach for engaging in these demons defense which is why there has been shuffling of the certified lawyers. Good for them. We need more Mooney types and less despicable g4 types. I always hope/wonder which attorneys read these threads....

 

[Betty P]

Your bold typeface statement says it all. Placing g4 at scene while simultaneously trying to minimize/ eliminate his culpability is ludicrous. g4 may think he has nothing to lose at trial vs taking loop deal. I'm looking forward to his angry psyco antics being broadcast for the whole country. These cult members and their attorneys want to attach so much importance to wagners lives and "rights." While they themselves killed viciously without provocation or remorse. Admitadly several victims in massacre killed for wrong place wrong time. Imo some of the attorneys don't have the stomach for engaging in these demons defense which is why there has been shuffling of the certified lawyers. Good for them. We need more Mooney types and less despicable g4 types. I always hope/wonder which attorneys read these threads....

Excellent post. I hope they do read these. Amongst cold blooded murderers, the Wagner clan stand out as one of the most cruel, most arrogant and most hostile in US history.

Because of the tight gag order on all details of these horrific murders, most Americans haven't learned the full details. When the trials begin and details are revealed, it will shock everyone. It's why the attorneys are scrambling so hard to prevent those gory details from being revealed at trial.

 

[altojack]

I'm amazed if GW4 Defense team has yapped to the DT especially as there's a gag order on this case. Not saying they didn't, it's just i was under the impression that his team were reputable. Wow. In desperation though it's surprising what folk will do.

And yes, I believe these threads get read by lawyers, LE and who knows who else.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I'm amazed if GW4 Defense team has yapped to the DT especially as there's a gag order on this case. Not saying they didn't, it's just i was under the impression that his team were reputable. Wow. In desperation though it's surprising what folk will do.

And yes, I believe these threads get read by lawyers, LE and who knows who else.

If they do get read by the attorneys and the accused,(DO THE RIGHT THING) (PLEADED GUILTY) JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Excellent post. I hope they do read these. Amongst cold blooded murderers, the Wagner clan stand out as one of the most cruel, most arrogant and most hostile in US history.

Because of the tight gag order on all details of these horrific murders, most Americans haven't learned the full details. When the trials begin and details are revealed, it will shock everyone. It's why the attorneys are scrambling so hard to prevent those gory details from being revealed at trial.

Motions have been filed to keep gory and personal details away from the jury. Don't know how Judge Deering ruled on these. There was a Hearing for Billy where the prosecution argued to keep in photos of the victims.

It was decided the decisions for using victim photos would be made at the time the prosecution is ready to use photos, they would disclose them to the defense for the defense's input but Canepa was adamant they would want to use some.

She said they wanted to use photos and death isn't pretty.

MOTION NO. 36
DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE TO PROHIBIT THE PREJUDICIAL DISPLAY OF TANGIBLE THINGS AND/OR PHOTOGRAPHS DURING TRIAL

MOTION NO. 37
DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DECEASED

MOTION NO. 38
DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE TO PROHIBIT VICTIM-IMPACT EVIDENCE DURING THE TRIAL AND, IF NECESSARY, THE MITIGATION PHASE

 

[Betty P]

Motions have been filed to keep gory and personal details away from the jury. Don't know how Judge Deering ruled on these. There was a Hearing for Billy where the prosecution argued to keep in photos of the victims.

I don't think Judge Deering has ruled on these motions yet. I was hoping he would at the last hearing. He probably will down the road. JMO, jurors are usually allowed to see crime scene photos during murder trials. They may keep them from the public, though.

A quick review of similar homicide cases shows there is usually a restriction against showing graphic crime photos to the courtroom or general public, the jury is usually allowed to see them. How else can the prosecution make their case and explain how the murders were carried out?

Here's a post in Quora from a court reporter who noted that prosecutors don't usually display crime scene photos on a big screen, but they number the photographs and pass them to the jury to review.

https://www.quora.com/Can-a-juror-r...cene-photos-if-they-are-presented-as-evidence

The attorney posting below that says judges may not allow very gory photos if they don't make a point to the case the prosecutor is making. JMO, the judge will probably review the photos the state wants to present and rule which ones to allow. IANAL

Another good comment from an attorney at the above link:

"Before trial, the number of photographs and the actual photographs themselves are usually the subject of a hearing where the trial judge will decide how many photos and which individual photos will be viewed by the jury. The prosecution will usually seek to admit more photos and the defense will usually seek less. The judge will try to strike a balance that will serve an evidentiary purpose but not be overly prejudicial to the defense. In general, the prosecution usually wants to shock the jury with the severity of the crime and the defense wants to minimize the crime. Most judges will keep the number of gruesome photographs to a minimum and insist that they be presented to establish specific facts (size and location of a wound, etc.) rather than just be introduced for shock value.

It can also be the subject of voir dire in selecting a jury. If gruesome photographs are going to be a significant part of the evidence, prospective jurors can usually be asked how they will feel about this and whether it will affect their impartiality.

Sometimes photographs can also be “sanitized” to lessen their impact. Faces can be blurred, irrelevant portions can be cropped out, etc. I’ve done this in a number of cases."​

 

[altojack]

I don't think Judge Deering has ruled on these motions yet. I was hoping he would at the last hearing. He probably will down the road. JMO, jurors are usually allowed to see crime scene photos during murder trials. They may keep them from the public, though.

A quick review of similar homicide cases shows there is usually a restriction against showing graphic crime photos to the courtroom or general public, the jury is usually allowed to see them. How else can the prosecution make their case and explain how the murders were carried out?

Here's a post in Quora from a court reporter who noted that prosecutors don't usually display crime scene photos on a big screen, but they number the photographs and pass them to the jury to review.

https://www.quora.com/Can-a-juror-r...cene-photos-if-they-are-presented-as-evidence

The attorney posting below that says judges may not allow very gory photos if they don't make a point to the case the prosecutor is making. JMO, the judge will probably review the photos the state wants to present and rule which ones to allow. IANAL

I've followed 3 murder cases where the Jury were shown photos of the crime scenes and only shown limited number of photos of the deceased. I don't think they showed full face though, think they were hazed out. There was a big screen for the public and us watching online. However we didn't see the bodies just the crime scenes, oh and a baby buggy where it had been left to die, urghhh.

Obviously the Jury need to see photos to understand where the scenes were and where the bodies were found. I don't think they will see the real gory ones though.

 

[altojack]

That was my scenario about making it look like JW did a murder suicide, not the Defense’s idea. BW would have gotten his revenge on CRsr and not get accused of doing it. BW and AW could get custody of SW because it was JW whom killed everyone and he was also dead. Just a possibility and my opinion only…

I reallly like this possibility and opinion. GW4 stated Jake was always causing trouble over girls previously. If BW had the same thoughts and feelings, he had himself a scapegoat didn't he. So it would look like JW shot CRs then took himself out. Neat. Hmmmm makes you wonder what crap they were thinking at times, a very weird family.

 

[Betty P]

I've followed 3 murder cases where the Jury were shown photos of the crime scenes and only shown limited number of photos of the deceased. I don't think they showed full face though, think they were hazed out. There was a big screen for the public and us watching online. However we didn't see the bodies just the crime scenes, oh and a baby buggy where it had been left to die, urghhh.

Obviously the Jury need to see photos to understand where the scenes were and where the bodies were found. I don't think they will see the real gory ones though.

Thanks. I think the prosecution will need to show photos of all the crime scenes to establish that most of the victims were asleep, in their beds when they were shot. It will show the killers planned accordingly to take them by surprise and that there was no self-defense motive involved.

I'm guessing the judge will allow the prosecution to show some photos of the infants who were sleeping next to their parents as they were murdered, too. The photos will show the proximity of the children to the wounded parents and the extreme risks the killers took with the lives of those infants, along with the callous disregard for the lives and safety of those babies. JMO

 

[altojack]

Thanks. I think the prosecution will need to show photos of all the crime scenes to establish that most of the victims were asleep, in their beds when they were shot. It will show the killers planned accordingly to take them by surprise and that there was no self-defense motive involved.

I'm guessing the judge will allow the prosecution to show some photos of the infants who were sleeping next to their parents as they were murdered, too. The photos will show the proximity of the children to the wounded parents and the extreme risks the killers took with the lives of those infants, along with the callous disregard for the lives and safety of those babies. JMO

Well they probably will show them in their beds but think they'll haze the babies over so as not to 'see' them and same with the facial injuries of the dead. I don't think they'll show full faces covered in shot. I could be wrong mind. Blurred out is what I wanted to say, not hazed. Not thinking straight, I'm tired

 

[Piffcat]

Thanks. I think the prosecution will need to show photos of all the crime scenes to establish that most of the victims were asleep, in their beds when they were shot. It will show the killers planned accordingly to take them by surprise and that there was no self-defense motive involved.

I'm guessing the judge will allow the prosecution to show some photos of the infants who were sleeping next to their parents as they were murdered, too. The photos will show the proximity of the children to the wounded parents and the extreme risks the killers took with the lives of those infants, along with the callous disregard for the lives and safety of those babies. JMO

every last picture needs to be shown. thats what the trial is for. and in many cases it is actually comforting to family to "know everything". people are different and grieve different ways however no victims survivors are in favor of anything which dilutes the pure terror these 4 "humans" unleashed on 8 innocent people. it is so sad and enraging how these attorneys and "philosophers" in discussions advocating in any way for the wagners. i GUARENTEE anyone who was in those crime scenes, saw the pictures, did the autopsies would ever agree with any of these arguments. some acts are so evil so callous that being in their presence changes you forever. the wagners imo are akin to child pornographers. no one would ever argue against that type of evidence being shown and yet somehow people still advocate for mitigating circumstances of these massacre's crime scene photos. it is partially a function of this gag order and delays of trial. any shielding of evidence from the public only helps the wagners and hurts the victims. crime scene photos are taken for a reason.
<modsnip: Unnecessarily graphic>

 

[Betty P]

every last picture needs to be shown. thats what the trial is for. and in many cases it is actually comforting to family to "know everything". people are different and grieve different ways however no victims survivors are in favor of anything which dilutes the pure terror these 4 "humans" unleashed on 8 innocent people. it is so sad and enraging how these attorneys and "philosophers" in discussions advocating in any way for the wagners. i GUARENTEE anyone who was in those crime scenes, saw the pictures, did the autopsies would ever agree with any of these arguments. some acts are so evil so callous that being in their presence changes you forever. the wagners imo are akin to child pornographers. no one would ever argue against that type of evidence being shown and yet somehow people still advocate for mitigating circumstances of these massacre's crime scene photos. it is partially a function of this gag order and delays of trial. any shielding of evidence from the public only helps the wagners and hurts the victims. crime scene photos are taken for a reason.
<modsnip: Unnecessarily graphic>

Yes, they need to feel that same pain and fear. I recall a quote from Ms Geneva about how she would wake up in the middle of the night, lying awake for hours. She was afraid the killers would come for her. What agony.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I really think the jury should see all the photos even the ones of Hannah Giley and Dana Rhoden, just to show what the Wagners are capable of, ANIMALS need to be kept in a CAGE, JMO
LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE!

 

[LMDlong]

Regarding my post about the male being handcuffed the day of the murders. If I did, I did not mean to cause any problems. I had never seen that picture before and did not know for sure who was being handcuffed. I do appreciate all the replies.