GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

[altojack]

Any new update on Raisinisback ?

Her husband popped in to read posts to her last week or week before. He said she is doing ok but obviously it's going to take time.
I think he's still around as he became interested in the case so was going back to Day 1 and have a read through.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm glad I thought to download them. I wasn't sure. It was around the last time I got a new laptop. I'll post these in the Media & Timelines thread.

This was the "holy grail" of this investigation. I would take anything FW says with a grain of salt. I think I counted over a dozen ponds on that property, it could have been any of them.

Flying W Farms Inc on EquineNow

Here is a good photo of a typical large pond on the property. I also saw a similar large pond south/west of the buildings and a large one east of the buildings and a large one quite a bit farther north of the buildings. Definitely ponds as seen with Google Satellite Maps.

Google Maps - 6851 Camp Creek Rd, Lucasville, OH 45648

 

[Betty P]

Flying W Farms Inc on EquineNow

Here is a good photo of a typical large pond on the property. I also saw a similar large pond south/west of the buildings and a large one east of the buildings and a large one quite a bit farther north of the buildings. Definitely ponds as seen with Google Satellite Maps.

Google Maps - 6851 Camp Creek Rd, Lucasville, OH 45648

If I'm reading the property boundaries correctly, there are about 20+ ponds on the property

The border on the west, IIRC is Rd 24 and the north side is 344, right? It's been a while since I looked at this map.

IIRC, when the divers searched not long after the arrests, they were photographed walking up onto the property from Bethel Hill Rd, right?

Pike County murders: Search ongoing at family horse farm

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Whichever pond they checked along there obviously was the wrong one. They must have had info back then that evidence was in the ponds on FWF, but couldn't go search all of them.

ETA: Correction, the north border of the FWF property is at Loys Run Rd or 28. That still includes a little less than 20 ponds.

ETA 2: No doubt Billy W knows every square inch of that farm. Probably better than anyone.

 

[Berrybell]

I have wondered about the knife. Keeping it along with the guns makes it seem like a weapon that was used, like it has some important significance.

I think so too.

 

[Cool Cats]

If I'm reading the property boundaries correctly, there are about 20+ ponds on the property

The border on the west, IIRC is Rd 24 and the north side is 344, right? It's been a while since I looked at this map.

IIRC, when the divers searched not long after the arrests, they were photographed walking up onto the property from Bethel Hill Rd, right?

Pike County murders: Search ongoing at family horse farm

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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Whichever pond they checked along there obviously was the wrong one. They must have had info back then that evidence was in the ponds on FWF, but couldn't go search all of them.

ETA: Correction, the north border of the FWF property is at Loys Run Rd or 28. That still includes a little less than 20 ponds.

ETA 2: No doubt Billy W knows every square inch of that farm. Probably better than anyone.

Edward Wagner - State's Supplemental Discovery 1-21-20

Search Warrant Executed on Bethel Hill Road 11-4-19 (14 pp) Under Seal
Search Warrant Executed on FWF 11-4-19 (13 pp) Under Seal

Yes they were searching on Bethel Hill Road by Mount Etna Cemetery. This cemetery ajoins Flying W Farms. The Wagners used to live on Bethel Hill Road.

Angela Wagner
Po Box 1394/ 845 Bethel Hill Rd.
Lucasville, Ohio 45648

At this address Angela's kennel burned down with the dogs in it on December 17, 2005. She claimed it was an electrical fire. I hope this wasn't a planned arson.

WHITEPINES KENNEL -
THIS WEBSITE IS NOW DEDICATED TO THE ---

MEMORY OF OUR GIRLS, GUYS AND BABIES THAT WAS LOST IN THE ELECTRICAL FIRE IN OUR KENNEL AND NURSERY ON DEC.17, 2005.
YOU ARE DEARLY MISSED AND LOVED EACH DAY BY US, WE WILL NEVER FORGET YOU.

p://web.archive.org/web/20060221074754/http://whitepineskennel.com/

Divers return to property owned by Wagner matriarch in Rhoden murder probe

(You can see part of the Mount Etna cemetery sign here from WKRC search photo far right)

 

[Cool Cats]

Post about Bethel Hill Rd. fires from @Tiff23fr:

However, there have clearly been multiple fires across these properties.

One challenge I have ran into the last year is the update to the auditor site doesn’t display the property cards as it did a couple years ago. If you go by the updated auditors site it appears the taxable building values decreased for the 845 Bethel property in the 2005 revaluation and the 2017 revaluation. If that is used as a guide it would seem there was a building (or home) destroyed or removed between 2003-2005 and another between 2014 and 2017 resulting in the 2017 appraisal being down to land only. JMO

The fire referenced on Angelas website above for the kennel is 12/17/05 - she claims on the site it was an electrical fire.

There was then a vehicle fire at the 845 address 12/28/08.
845 Bethel Hill Rd, Lucasville OH owners history, phone number, price, property info and neighbourghood | Homemetry

A thing to note is 845 Bethel is attached to parcel 04030800000.

One of the things I did notice with the old system is the Loys Run Rd Property attached to parcel 0406003300 also experienced a structure fire. It clearly stated “house destroyed by fire”. I want to say it was in 2014. What you can see on the current system for this parcel is the 1/1/15 Misc update, the taxable building value, market buildings value, and total market value dropped significantly which would support this fire.

I will look and see if I kept a screen shot of the property card from the old site that stated “house destroyed by fire”.

You can see here that these are adjoining parcels:
Geocortex Viewer for HTML5

I guess this is the long way of saying, not really...I can give some data points and dates but that is about it.

Tiff23fr, Feb 9, 2021

 

[Betty P]

Post about Bethel Hill Rd. fires from @Tiff23fr:

However, there have clearly been multiple fires across these properties.

One challenge I have ran into the last year is the update to the auditor site doesn’t display the property cards as it did a couple years ago. If you go by the updated auditors site it appears the taxable building values decreased for the 845 Bethel property in the 2005 revaluation and the 2017 revaluation. If that is used as a guide it would seem there was a building (or home) destroyed or removed between 2003-2005 and another between 2014 and 2017 resulting in the 2017 appraisal being down to land only. JMO

The fire referenced on Angelas website above for the kennel is 12/17/05 - she claims on the site it was an electrical fire.

There was then a vehicle fire at the 845 address 12/28/08.
845 Bethel Hill Rd, Lucasville OH owners history, phone number, price, property info and neighbourghood | Homemetry

A thing to note is 845 Bethel is attached to parcel 04030800000.

One of the things I did notice with the old system is the Loys Run Rd Property attached to parcel 0406003300 also experienced a structure fire. It clearly stated “house destroyed by fire”. I want to say it was in 2014. What you can see on the current system for this parcel is the 1/1/15 Misc update, the taxable building value, market buildings value, and total market value dropped significantly which would support this fire.

I will look and see if I kept a screen shot of the property card from the old site that stated “house destroyed by fire”.

You can see here that these are adjoining parcels:
Geocortex Viewer for HTML5

I guess this is the long way of saying, not really...I can give some data points and dates but that is about it.

Tiff23fr, Feb 9, 2021

BCI didn't find anything at the pond on the FWF property on the other side of the road during that search. It was November 6, 2019, per the news media link above. They may have searched there the day before, too, but if so, the news media wasn't aware of it. There's other video in the news media from that day showing the agents walking uphill through the field bordering Bethel Hill Rd on the FWF side.

So the guns & knife, etc. must have been buried in a different pond. I'd venture to guess it was a pond that was some distance from the main house at FWF, but still far from any of the property lines or public roads. It wouldn't have been too far from the main house, though, that they (Billy) couldn't keep an eye on anyone going back there.

Seems like a risky thing to do if you had just murdered 8 people. Why bury the murder weapons in a pond on your mother's property, don't tell her about it, then take off to live in Alaska? If, as they allege, no one else in the Wagner family knew the weapons were there, why take the risk of someone coming across them during the months and years you're gone?

As an aside, that Bethel Hill Rd property mentioned above was also on some earlier discovery docs. The theory we had here at WS was that the 4 Wags used that old trailer they used to live in as a "staging" area to prepare for the murders and return to after to change clothes, get ready to destroy stuff, etc. LE may have figured that out, too. I wonder if they found anything there. They must have found something for it to be mentioned in discovery.

 

[Cool Cats]

BCI didn't find anything at the pond on the FWF property on the other side of the road during that search. It was November 6, 2019, per the news media link above. They may have searched there the day before, too, but if so, the news media wasn't aware of it. There's other video in the news media from that day showing the agents walking uphill through the field bordering Bethel Hill Rd on the FWF side.

So the guns & knife, etc. must have been buried in a different pond. I'd venture to guess it was a pond that was some distance from the main house at FWF, but still far from any of the property lines or public roads. It wouldn't have been too far from the main house, though, that they (Billy) couldn't keep an eye on anyone going back there.

Seems like a risky thing to do if you had just murdered 8 people. Why bury the murder weapons in a pond on your mother's property, don't tell her about it, then take off to live in Alaska? If, as they allege, no one else in the Wagner family knew the weapons were there, why take the risk of someone coming across them during the months and years you're gone?

As an aside, that Bethel Hill Rd property mentioned above was also on some earlier discovery docs. The theory we had here at WS was that the 4 Wags used that old trailer they used to live in as a "staging" area to prepare for the murders and return to after to change clothes, get ready to destroy stuff, etc. LE may have figured that out, too. I wonder if they found anything there. They must have found something for it to be mentioned in discovery.

Possible that trailer wasn't there anymore due to a fire. Possible arson fire.

14 pages in Discovery from Bethel Hill Road so they must have found something there.

Apparently they were sure the buckets wouldn't be found and they were right, it took Jake's confession to locate them.

Yup, there is video in the news media from that day showing the agents walking uphill through the field. You can see an agent pointing to something in the distance.

Angenette Levy
@Local12
Nov 7, 2019

Twitter

 

[Covert Operative]

G4 is finally on the calendar. There could be some interesting things said if they do not discuss it all in chambers and are allowed to discuss some things in court.

03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: HEARING ON MOTION
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM
03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: MOTIONS HEARING and ARGUMENT ON MOTIONS
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM

 

[Piffcat]

G4 is finally on the calendar. There could be some interesting things said if they do not discuss it all in chambers and are allowed to discuss some things in court.

03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: HEARING ON MOTION
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM
03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: MOTIONS HEARING and ARGUMENT ON MOTIONS
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM

lets hope so..... the lack of progress is astonishing. forget the trial, we cant even get a hearing with testimony to rule on the motions. imagine if all 4 were still in play. the ahmaud tragedy has already had 2 trials from a murder in 2020!!

 

[Covert Operative]

lets hope so..... the lack of progress is astonishing. forget the trial, we cant even get a hearing with testimony to rule on the motions. imagine if all 4 were still in play. the ahmaud tragedy has already had 2 trials from a murder in 2020!!

I think it's been a little more than 7 months since BW's lawyers have actually filed anything new. Hopefully we get to see the Daubert hearing. Although it is to challenge the expert and their conclusions, I hope some small bits of information related to the shoes and ballistics may also come out during it.

BW was already granted the Daubert hearing so I feel that G4 will be also. I believe that JW may have said G4 was at the one scene with the shoes on but gave a reason in his mind that he thinks will help G4.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think it's been a little more than 7 months since BW's lawyers have actually filed anything new. Hopefully we get to see the Daubert hearing. Although it is to challenge the expert and their conclusions, I hope some small bits of information related to the shoes and ballistics may also come out during it.

BW was already granted the Daubert hearing so I feel that G4 will be also. I believe that JW may have said G4 was at the one scene with the shoes on but gave a reason in his mind that he thinks will help G4.

I agree that I think Judge Deering will grant the Daubert Hearing.

I also believe small bits of information about the shoes - and ballistics if they go there - will come out because Canepa said in regards to the defense's Daubert Motion:

"I did add some facts from information gleaned from the Proffers of Angela and Jake to support that the conclusions of our expert, obviously, have been confirmed to be accurate."

So we could hear some specific information Jake and Angela said about the shoes. Not sure if George's Daubert Hearing will also pertain to ballistics.

There are 2 arguments that Billy's attorneys made against the ballistic evidence that are moot points now because of Jake's confession.

Billy Wagner's attorney questioned the ballistic evidence of shell casings found at Peterson Rd because they could have been compromised by being out in the elements for more than a year. He also said they can't be linked without the gun.

Well Jake can confirm that the bullet casings found on Wagner property did in fact come from a gun that he himself fired, and now there actually are guns that can be linked to the bullets and casings recovered from Wagner property and the crime scenes.

Jake and Angela's testimony helps back up the expert testimony.






.

 

[Betty P]

lets hope so..... the lack of progress is astonishing. forget the trial, we cant even get a hearing with testimony to rule on the motions. imagine if all 4 were still in play. the ahmaud tragedy has already had 2 trials from a murder in 2020!!

It's like they've had about 3 dozen hearings already for GW4 (not to mention the rest of the motley Wagner crew). So little has been accomplished in such an extended period of time. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

lets hope so..... the lack of progress is astonishing. forget the trial, we cant even get a hearing with testimony to rule on the motions. imagine if all 4 were still in play. the ahmaud tragedy has already had 2 trials from a murder in 2020!!

And in George's last Hearing Nash said they have selected 3 or 4 dates that the defense will be meeting with the prosecution away from the court.

Whatever that means.

 

[Ann99]

Jailhouse phone calls have been released to the public in the Alex Murdaugh case. Thread on Websleuths
Apparently released thru a FOIA Request. Freedom of Information Act.
Anyone know the law in Ohio regarding releasing jail/prison phone calls?
Im surprised it hasn't ben done. Must not be possible.

 

[Betty P]

Jailhouse phone calls have been released to the public in the Alex Murdaugh case. Thread on Websleuths
Apparently released thru a FOIA Request. Freedom of Information Act.
Anyone know the law in Ohio regarding releasing jail/prison phone calls?
Im surprised it hasn't ben done. Must not be possible.

The current governor/former AG is in charge of the case. His son is a justice on the Ohio Supreme Court. They've been able to keep all the final autopsies from the news media. They laugh at FOIA requests.

Since those phone calls are part of the state's case, it seems unlikely they'll be released before the trial. JMO

 

[Betty P]

G4 is finally on the calendar. There could be some interesting things said if they do not discuss it all in chambers and are allowed to discuss some things in court.

03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: HEARING ON MOTION
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM
03/01/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: MOTIONS HEARING and ARGUMENT ON MOTIONS
Date: 03/07/2022
Time: 01:00 PM

Thanks for the update. I wonder if some staff were out sick down there. Up until a week ago, they were still a COVID hot spot.

 

[Covert Operative]

There are journal entries/court notes put in today for G4 and BW. They are so long that I am not going to post them.

I did not recall this motion for G4 being withdrawn. It is kind of interesting that it was.

G4 - Defendant's Motion No. 61, entitled "MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE PHOTOS OF WEAPONS, SHELL CASINGS, AND RELATED ITEMS" was scheduled for hearing on this 22nd day of December 2021. In open Court on this day, the Defendant, through counsel, withdrew Motion No. 61.

 

[Piffcat]

Jailhouse phone calls have been released to the public in the Alex Murdaugh case. Thread on Websleuths
Apparently released thru a FOIA Request. Freedom of Information Act.
Anyone know the law in Ohio regarding releasing jail/prison phone calls?
Im surprised it hasn't ben done. Must not be possible.

looks like one of those situations where there was nothing on the books specifically making it illegal but it hadnt come up before. fitsnews noticed that and slid it in now other outlets are trying to get in on the fun. its very surprising they were released to me since the case hasnt been settled. they know there monitored but to publicly release and selectively at that... south carolina legal system is on a rampage with that case.

 

[Ann99]

looks like one of those situations where there was nothing on the books specifically making it illegal but it hadnt come up before. fitsnews noticed that and slid it in now other outlets are trying to get in on the fun. its very surprising they were released to me since the case hasnt been settled. they know there monitored but to publicly release and selectively at that... south carolina legal system is on a rampage with that case.

I was surprised too, especially since the case isn’t settled.
i think you are right, it slipped through.
I have heard (not specific to this case or Wagners) in general many jail phone systems are run by outside sources and not actually the jail or prison. So who owns the content?
I wonder if that has something to do with it.
Anyone can file a FOIA if they take the time and know how to do it.
What I don't know is if State of Ohio specifically has a law regarding this issue.
I also assume Prosecution as well as Defense would have objections, each for reasons of their own.
Maybe these are questions that cant be answered. Too many entities involved.
But, wouldn't it be great to hear actual audio content of a few of the W’s phone calls.