OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

[Covert Operative]

The Court notes that at the hearing on May 2, 2022, the State of Ohio withdrew items number 3), 4) and 7) that appear on the fourth page of the State's "Notice of Intent To Use Other Acts Evidence Pursuant to 404(B)" filed on February 22, 2021.

The withdrawn items stated as follows: 3) Instance of Defendant's father threatening Defendant's mother with a gun. 4) Allegations that Defendant's father has killed/plotted/threatened to kill others before. 7) Defendant's father/co-defendant threatening Christopher Rhoden, Sr. with a gun within a week of the homicides.

Yes, I posted those 3 and information on other acts a little while ago. Thanks

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, I posted those 3 that a little while ago. Thanks

Thanks. Judge Deering sure didn't take out very many. 3 out of dozens. I wonder how they will use the other crimes the Wagner's committed such as drug running, arson, fraudulent loans, theft, selling stolen goods, etc...

It looks like it shows a criminal conspiracy against George.

Makes me wonder if FW wasn't crazy about the Wagners working for her and thought they would do better on their own farm on Peterson Rd. Seems like there would have Been a ton of work for them to do on the FWF. We know Fred had other employees working for her.

Something about this seems a bit strange to me. Pike County murders: Grandmother on house arrest asks to leave Wagner farm. <modsnip: Information stated as fact without link to support>

​

 

[Piffcat]

Thanks. Judge Deering sure didn't take out very many. 3 out of dozens. I wonder how they will use the other crimes the Wagner's committed such as drug running, arson, fraudulent loans, theft, selling stolen goods, etc...

It looks like it shows a criminal conspiracy against George.

Makes me wonder if FW wasn't crazy about the Wagners working for her and thought they would do better on their own farm on Peterson Rd. Seems like there would have Been a ton of work for them to do on the FWF. We know Fred had other employees working for her.

Something about this seems a bit strange to me. Pike County murders: Grandmother on house arrest asks to leave Wagner farm. <modsnip: Information stated as fact without link to support>

​

i think what your catching on to is that fw and her husband were very capable and commfortable navigating the underworld that bw and ang find themselves constantly participating in. imo her empire and bobs was built on this comfortable level of participation in both legitamate and illegitimate income. but freddy most likely would rather leave all that behind, saving whatever past and current obligations she holds to other associates. in order to do this good amount of legal seperation and buffer is needed between her and family members still frolicking in the land of scams thefts assaults arsons weapons and drug trafficking. peterson road was designed to be that buffer. everything could lead back there, especially if its set up as a "farm" self sufficient business. even before the indictments, billy proved her right. imagine the son of the great bob wagner not having an asset to list on his bankruptcy and his debts including only kmart with income only from the state? compared to his moms holdings this very unusual, and its that way on purpose.

 

[rsd1200]

You’re right. A few were removed. In my opinion, I still think the Ws will try to keep them out. They have to try anything they can to not

Thanks. Judge Deering sure didn't take out very many. 3 out of dozens. I wonder how they will use the other crimes the Wagner's committed such as drug running, arson, fraudulent loans, theft, selling stolen goods, etc...

It looks like it shows a criminal conspiracy against George.

Makes me wonder if FW wasn't crazy about the Wagners working for her and thought they would do better on their own farm on Peterson Rd. Seems like there would have Been a ton of work for them to do on the FWF. We know Fred had other employees working for her.

Something about this seems a bit strange to me. Pike County murders: Grandmother on house arrest asks to leave Wagner farm.<modsnip: Information stated as fact without link to support>

​

Basic horse farm. I have family with horse farms. Looks pretty similar and they are def not criminals. Judges, lawyers, and business owners of legal companies. No criminal history. Just worked hard and are wealthy and have their enjoyments. Like most owners of large farms like these, as the owners age, so does the farm and the buildings. Looks to be the case here.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Too late. Judge ruled on the Motion to keep most of the Acts in at trial for the jury to hear. Shows George heavily involved in the conspiracy.

George tries to seem all innocent but his being involved in the conspiracy is a big part of the Case that will help convict him.

He will get nailed for murder in my opinion and spend life in prison. We will see in a few months if I am right. In my opinion, even if he got life with parole, the parole board wouldn't let him out. Not on 8 murders. Then there are 14 other charges the defense doesn't even dispute. They said they may dispute them at a later date. Said in a Hearing.

Judge refused to dismiss aggravated murder charges against eldest Wagner son in Pike County massacre

He is accused of taking part in the 2016 Pike County murders.

www.fox19.com

The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

The other charges George Wagner IV faces are conspiracy to commit aggravated murder, four counts of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering with evidence, one count each of forgery, unauthorized use of property, interception of wire, oral or electronic communications, obstructing justice, and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity.

"involved in the conspiracy" is what WILL convict him. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

"involved in the conspiracy" is what WILL convict him. IMO

Yup! It's why all 4 Wagners were indicted, I believe I heard Canepa mention this at a hearing.

Obviously the Wagners didn't believe all would get arrested. I think they were surprised George got arrested and George still seems surprised.

 

[Puzzles8]

I hope we hear in court the other crimes the Wagner's committed. With over 300 witnesses it wouldn't surprise me to hear something. Remember according to Other Acts Evidence, Billy may have killed before. Unless I'm remembering it wrong, I think it said may have killed before.

#4 - OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Mod Approved
View attachment 346613

I was unable to BBM on the legal document. The section of the legal document I'm referring to is #9. Summary - Trying to interfere with the testimony of other witnesses. The line that really sticks out to me (paraphrasing) is that once they were arrested and detained, they continued to make jailhouse phone calls as well as make contact through their respective lawyers.

IIRC we've had many conversations here analyzing the large number of phone calls the W4 have made while behind bars.
They seemed to be making LOTS of phone calls from jail.

We know LE was listening in on AW's jailhouse phone calls. I just assuming, if they were tracking and recording AW's jailhouse phone calls, they must have also been tracking and recording the calls of Billy, Jake and G4.
I just imagine those phone calls were not the garden variety, "hey, how you doing"

Three hundred potential witnesses at trial? I'd like to know how many names and numbers the W4 called from jail. Are these some of the names and numbers showing up on the witness list? If LE was recording those phone calls, I can't imagine the goldmine of information it mined. Just to take a wild guess here, I'm guessing the W4 basically talked about their own "Illegal acts"..... and then told the potential witness what they need them to say and the amount or favor that might be rewarded with their cooperation.

... and hopefully all on tape..

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

To all you historians. How many defense lawyers have either retired or stepped back off this case?

Please, attorney name and the W4 they represented. Dates would also be amazing to have.

JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

To all you historians. How many defense lawyers have either retired or stepped back off this case?

Please, attorney name and the W4 they represented. Dates would also be amazing to have.

JMO

JW and G4 had a lawyer that retired and are the ones I can remember at the time.
Seems that Deering may be retiring also. They were/are older so I could see them not wanting to wait to retire since the complete case had/has the potential to go on for some while.
There was a lawyer from the AG office that was appointed to assist Canepa. He had been in court some but that was no longer valid once she left the AG office and agreed to continue to prosecute the case with Pike County prosecutor office.
JW's lawyer retired later than I had thought I remembered.


*******JW*********

02/09/2022	MOTION TO WITHDRAW AS COUNSEL FILED Attorney: MOONEY, WILLIAM J
02/16/2022	DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO APPOINT ASSISTANT OHIO PUBLIC DEFENDER KIRK A MCVAY TO SERVE AS CERTIFIED COUNSEL IN REPLACEMENT FOR RETIRED ASSISTANT OHIO PUBLIC DEFENDER WILLIAM J MOONEY FILED (FAX) Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W
02/17/2022	ENTRY GRANTING MOTION OF ATTORNEY MOONEY TO WITHDRAW AS COUNSEL FILED

03/03/2022

ENTRY APPOINTING COUNSEL--ATTORNEY KIRK A MCVAY IS APPOINTED AS TRIAL CO-COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

*********G4 **********

09/17/2020

MOTION TO WITHDRAW AS COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT FILED Attorney: KNIGHT, CHARLES H

09/29/2020

ENTRY APPOINTING COUNSEL -- THE MOTION OF CHARLES H KNIGHT TO WITHDRAW AS COUNSEL IS WELL TAKEN AND IS GRANTED; IT IS THE ORDER OF THE COURT THAT ATTORNEY JOHN PATRICK PARKER IS APPOINTED AS LEAD COUNSEL TO REPRESENT DEFENDANT IN THIS MATTER

 

[rsd1200]

i think what your catching on to is that fw and her husband were very capable and commfortable navigating the underworld that bw and ang find themselves constantly participating in. imo her empire and bobs was built on this comfortable level of participation in both legitamate and illegitimate income. but freddy most likely would rather leave all that behind, saving whatever past and current obligations she holds to other associates. in order to do this good amount of legal seperation and buffer is needed between her and family members still frolicking in the land of scams thefts assaults arsons weapons and drug trafficking. peterson road was designed to be that buffer. everything could lead back there, especially if its set up as a "farm" self sufficient business. even before the indictments, billy proved her right. imagine the son of the great bob wagner not having an asset to list on his bankruptcy and his debts including only kmart with income only from the state? compared to his moms holdings this very unusual, and its that way on purpose.

I believe Peterson Road was the 4s escape from the farm. AW did not want to be under her MIL's rule any longer. I believe the boys bought Peterson and then AW followed. GW3 came back and forth between the two farms as he worked for his mother but also was helping them start their farm. if you've never seen the pics, they were raising those unique animals that people buy for pasture pets, or designer breed of animals for a LOOK WHAT I"VE GOT price and status. G3 must not have learned the breeding end very well, b/c they turned it into a drive up and shoot your own mountain goat kinda thing toward the end. The pigs and goats were food sources as well as could be pasture pets. Unique and pricey for that area. Have one of those type farms about five miles from me. My kid worked there one summer. Said it was a bit disturbing that someone had to be driven up to an animal and pretend to be a bold hunter. Edit: My kid tried to work the summer out, but quit after finding a different job.

 

[Cool Cats]

I believe Peterson Road was the 4s escape from the farm. AW did not want to be under her MIL's rule any longer. I believe the boys bought Peterson and then AW followed. GW3 came back and forth between the two farms as he worked for his mother but also was helping them start their farm. if you've never seen the pics, they were raising those unique animals that people buy for pasture pets, or designer breed of animals for a LOOK WHAT I"VE GOT price and status. G3 must not have learned the breeding end very well, b/c they turned it into a drive up and shoot your own mountain goat kinda thing toward the end. The pigs and goats were food sources as well as could be pasture pets. Unique and pricey for that area. Have one of those type farms about five miles from me. My kid worked there one summer. Said it was a bit disturbing that someone had to be driven up to an animal and pretend to be a bold hunter.

Billy was living at FWF to help care for his dad but as we know he also worked there. Even after his dad passed away he was with Robin taking a horse to a vet in Lexington Kentucky.

I heard the shooting of the animals was done at FWF but of course who knows what all was done at Peterson Rd?

When the Wagners moved back from AK for those 6 months in 2018, I wonder if Billy was living in Angela's dad's house or just over at FWF? There were no farm animals that I could see over at her dad's house.

I wonder how Angela made $$ without the Peterson Rd. farm? We know George and Jake fixed cars and drove a truck and that they shared bank accounts, which gave Angie access.

Angie took care of the 2 very young kids so no doubt that the Wagners were happy to support her. There was still the possibility of the $530 social security and the food stamps. With the 2 kids there could have been some sources of income coming in.

So I hope I find out at trial many things such as why did the Wagners sell the Peterson farm including all their livestock?

Why kill Kenny and who did it and when?

Why start shooting Chris Sr. on the porch? Why drag the bodies? Was Chris really beaten up like BJM said?

Was Frankie's black eye from a gunshot wound?

How did they get into Frankie's and Dana's houses? We know it was a fake drug ruse to get into Chris's.

Why was there a knife with the guns? I still think the knife was used help get rid of things like security cameras. There has absolutely been no evidence in all these years to back up any claims that knives were used on any of the victims. The most I see happening in that area is threats being made but we are talking about killers whose modus operandi was to use guns, not their hands, not knives, but guns.

And killers who were cowards afraid to confront their victims. Even with Chris and Gary they were quick to start shooting. At least 15 gunshots if you count the casing or casings on porch and actual bullet under the house.

Notice that they didn't know what the H... they were doing with Chris and Gary awake. Talk about a disorganized crime scene. Easy to shoot people sleeping and who are in their rooms at night with no defenses.

​

 

[Cool Cats]

Another question: Why did BCI start suspecting the Wagners? Clearly they did not at first.

BCI did not suspect the Wagners until months after the investigation started.

Scheiderer is on the stand and is being crossed examined by Canepa about the type of shoe prints found at the homicides.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details (George's Bond Hearing)
Time Stamp 1:14 - Information can be found here:

Canepa:
And so early in the investigation you go out and get video footage from anybody who purchased that shoe in 2016.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
In the Walmart in a 50 mile radius.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Of Pike County. Did the scientist also determine that was a fairly new shoe?

Scheiderer:
Yes. There was, there was little to no tread wear on that, on those specific shoes.

Canepa:
Ok so you thought you were looking for a shoe that was fairly recently purchased?

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok. And that was months before you ever suspected that the Wagners were ...

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
... the killers.

 

[Covert Operative]

Billy was living at FWF to help care for his dad but as we know he also worked there. Even after his dad passed away he was with Robin taking a horse to a vet in Lexington Kentucky.

I heard the shooting of the animals was done at FWF but of course who knows what all was done at Peterson Rd?

When the Wagners moved back from AK for those 6 months in 2018, I wonder if Billy was living in Angela's dad's house or just over at FWF? There were no farm animals that I could see over at her dad's house.

I wonder how Angela made $$ without the Peterson Rd. farm? We know George and Jake fixed cars and drove a truck and that they shared bank accounts, which gave Angie access.

Angie took care of the 2 very young kids so no doubt that the Wagners were happy to support her. There was still the possibility of the $530 social security and the food stamps. With the 2 kids there could have been some sources of income coming in.

So I hope I find out at trial many things such as why did the Wagners sell the Peterson farm including all their livestock?

Why kill Kenny and who did it and when?

Why start shooting Chris Sr. on the porch? Why drag the bodies? Was Chris really beaten up like BJM said?

Was Frankie's black eye from a gunshot wound?

How did they get into Frankie's and Dana's houses? We know it was a fake drug ruse to get into Chris's.

Why was there a knife with the guns? I still think the knife was used help get rid of things like security cameras. There has absolutely been no evidence in all these years to back up any claims that knives were used on any of the victims. The most I see happening in that area is threats being made but we are talking about killers whose modus operandi was to use guns, not their hands, not knives, but guns.

And killers who were cowards afraid to confront their victims. Even with Chris and Gary they were quick to start shooting. At least 15 gunshots if you count the casing or casings on porch and actual bullet under the house.

Notice that they didn't know what the H... they were doing with Chris and Gary awake. Talk about a disorganized crime scene. Easy to shoot people sleeping and who are in their rooms at night with no defenses.

​

I have a some thoughts on a few of those.

-Perhaps there was something from KR home they needed/wanted or he knew of the fake drug deal. There are some other possibilities I can think of for KR. I have always thought he was first but I go back and forth on first or last.

-It sounds like they were not planning on going in CRSR home to kill him. Canepa said they were going to shoot him from a distance or something like that. Things may have went wrong and they had to start shooting. Maybe CRSR got suspicious and started to run or slam the door etc., or BW realized GR was in the home, so plans had to change quick? It also leads me to believe they may not have known GR was there that night if they were going to try to kill CRSR from outside. (not sure on that one) Would not make sense to try to kill someone outside if someone was inside and may hear and have time to get a gun. They would know CRSR would be awake if BW was suppose to meet with him.

-I thought maybe they took keys from CRSR and got into FR and DR home if he was killed before them and I think he probably was but I change my mind of the order at times.

-The knife could have been a weapon used but I wonder if it was a memento taken from one of the victims, CRSR for example. It was in the bucket with weapons so it makes it appear as a weapon.

 

[rsd1200]

Billy was living at FWF to help care for his dad but as we know he also worked there. Even after his dad passed away he was with Robin taking a horse to a vet in Lexington Kentucky.

I heard the shooting of the animals was done at FWF but of course who knows what all was done at Peterson Rd?

When the Wagners moved back from AK for those 6 months in 2018, I wonder if Billy was living in Angela's dad's house or just over at FWF? There were no farm animals that I could see over at her dad's house.

I wonder how Angela made $$ without the Peterson Rd. farm? We know George and Jake fixed cars and drove a truck and that they shared bank accounts, which gave Angie access.

Angie took care of the 2 very young kids so no doubt that the Wagners were happy to support her. There was still the possibility of the $530 social security and the food stamps. With the 2 kids there could have been some sources of income coming in.

So I hope I find out at trial many things such as why did the Wagners sell the Peterson farm including all their livestock?

Why kill Kenny and who did it and when?

Why start shooting Chris Sr. on the porch? Why drag the bodies? Was Chris really beaten up like BJM said?

Was Frankie's black eye from a gunshot wound?

How did they get into Frankie's and Dana's houses? We know it was a fake drug ruse to get into Chris's.

Why was there a knife with the guns? I still think the knife was used help get rid of things like security cameras. There has absolutely been no evidence in all these years to back up any claims that knives were used on any of the victims. The most I see happening in that area is threats being made but we are talking about killers whose modus operandi was to use guns, not their hands, not knives, but guns.

And killers who were cowards afraid to confront their victims. Even with Chris and Gary they were quick to start shooting. At least 15 gunshots if you count the casing or casings on porch and actual bullet under the house.

Notice that they didn't know what the H... they were doing with Chris and Gary awake. Talk about a disorganized crime scene. Easy to shoot people sleeping and who are in their rooms at night with no defenses.

​

I think there's been valid theories for most of the above. I do still think they intended to kill certain family members, but, anyone else who may be in those homes when they entered, though, were simply considered collateral damage. I'm not beating those other horses any longer, just gonna see what comes out at trial.

 

[Puzzles8]

I wonder how Angela made $$ without the Peterson Rd. farm? We know George and Jake fixed cars and drove a truck and that they shared bank accounts, which gave Angie access.

Why start shooting Chris Sr. on the porch? Why drag the bodies? Was Chris really beaten up like BJM said?

Interesting questions. Just BBM on a few points.

First, I think AW and FW were like oil and water. They needed each other in a way, but did NOT like each other. IMO, they were two Alpha females. I think FW had the W4 on a short leash at FWF. A lot of this was FW paying the amazon and various credit card accounts for the W4. It appears the W4 lived well (and well beyond their means)with very little "reportable" income. FW controlling money = being able to control the W4's lives.

Second, I was really surprised with the fact that the boys tried to take CRsr out with a hidden shot from the outside. Really surprised. Why would they plan it this way?

Billy approached CRsr about a potentially lucrative and fictitious drug deal, just a week after he had threatened CRsr with a gun. CRsr had to have been very suspicious about Billy's motives. Here is my speculation, I'm wondering if CR had GR hiding in the trailer with a gun, just in case. Hearing a shot, GR ran to the room. The boys had shot CRsr (from the outside)and then saw a struggle inside. The boys then stormed the trailer, fought with CR and GR and were able to commendeer GR's gun. Might explain why GR was shot by two different caliber guns. Either GR's gun or two guns being carried by the boys.

The W4's initial plan didn't seem to include having the boys coming inside with guns (backup guns). The W4 didn't expect blood inside and the shoe prints at CR's

In any case, it appears the W's initial plan did not go as intended.

JMO, just one of many theory's, the boys first shooting from the outside has thrown me. Looking forward to the details that will emerge from the next hearings.

 

[rsd1200]

Interesting questions. Just BBM on a few points.

First, I think AW and FW were like oil and water. They needed each other in a way, but did NOT like each other. IMO, they were two Alpha females. I think FW had the W4 on a short leash at FWF. A lot of this was FW paying the amazon and various credit card accounts for the W4. It appears the W4 lived well (and well beyond their means)with very little "reportable" income. FW controlling money = being able to control the W4's lives.

Second, I was really surprised with the fact that the boys tried to take CRsr out with a hidden shot from the outside. Really surprised. Why would they plan it this way?

Billy approached CRsr about a potentially lucrative and fictitious drug deal, just a week after he had threatened CRsr with a gun. CRsr had to have been very suspicious about Billy's motives. Here is my speculation, I'm wondering if CR had GR hiding in the trailer with a gun, just in case. Hearing a shot, GR ran to the room. The boys had shot CRsr (from the outside)and then saw a struggle inside. The boys then stormed the trailer, fought with CR and GR and were able to commendeer GR's gun. Might explain why GR was shot by two different caliber guns. Either GR's gun or two guns being carried by the boys.

The W4's initial plan didn't seem to include having the boys coming inside with guns (backup guns). The W4 didn't expect blood inside and the shoe prints at CR's

In any case, it appears the W's initial plan did not go as intended.

JMO, just one of many theory's, the boys first shooting from the outside has thrown me. Looking forward to the details that will emerge from the next

Trailors are tight, I'd say CR1 was well known to have firearms of his own, why get in a tight space with your enemy who is bigger and more experienced? Just a guess b/c I've not read this anywhere just yet nor seen a link. Only these things that confirms my take that the the W4 were highly clannish, joined at the hip, controlling, even to each other within the family.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rhoden-killings-judge-rules-george-215922957.html

 

[Cool Cats]

Interesting questions. Just BBM on a few points.

First, I think AW and FW were like oil and water. They needed each other in a way, but did NOT like each other. IMO, they were two Alpha females. I think FW had the W4 on a short leash at FWF. A lot of this was FW paying the amazon and various credit card accounts for the W4. It appears the W4 lived well (and well beyond their means)with very little "reportable" income. FW controlling money = being able to control the W4's lives.

Second, I was really surprised with the fact that the boys tried to take CRsr out with a hidden shot from the outside. Really surprised. Why would they plan it this way?

Billy approached CRsr about a potentially lucrative and fictitious drug deal, just a week after he had threatened CRsr with a gun. CRsr had to have been very suspicious about Billy's motives. Here is my speculation, I'm wondering if CR had GR hiding in the trailer with a gun, just in case. Hearing a shot, GR ran to the room. The boys had shot CRsr (from the outside)and then saw a struggle inside. The boys then stormed the trailer, fought with CR and GR and were able to commendeer GR's gun. Might explain why GR was shot by two different caliber guns. Either GR's gun or two guns being carried by the boys.

The W4's initial plan didn't seem to include having the boys coming inside with guns (backup guns). The W4 didn't expect blood inside and the shoe prints at CR's

In any case, it appears the W's initial plan did not go as intended.

JMO, just one of many theory's, the boys first shooting from the outside has thrown me. Looking forward to the details that will emerge from the next hearings.

Also found dead in the same trailer was his cousin, Gary Rhoden, 38. He was shot twice in the head and once in the face. With one of the shots, the reports indicate the gun was pressed against the side of his head, leaving a "muzzle stain."

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Authorities had previously said the family members were killed in their sleep, but the forearm wound would indicate Christopher Rhoden Sr. was awake at the time of his death.

www.cincinnati.com

• Larger caliber bullets were used to kill 37-year-old Gary Rhoden.

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

I don't think Gary was shot by 2 different caliber bullets. When Scheiderer was testifying he said 2 different caliber bullets were found at Chris Sr's house and I think he meant the gun that killed Chris and the gun that killed Gary. We had thought it was George's 40 Glock.

With Jake shooting a 6 th victim who didn't die from the gunshot wound it sounds like 3 caliber bullets were found at Chris Sr's and that Jake shot Chris from outside. I picture Billy killing Chris with Jake shooting from the porch and despite what the defense says, I picture George shooting Gary.

I think they are trying to get George off. Canepa said Jake's proffer says George didn't kill anyone but that didn't mean that he didn't shoot anyone, that there was a distinctive difference.

 

[Cool Cats]

Gary was shot with heavier caliber bullets and this told BCI that 2 different guns were used at the 1st crime scene, Chris Sr's. I have always wondered who used this heavier caliber? George or Billy?

I found this from the Bond Hearing regarding a heavier caliber.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details (George's Bond Hearing.)
Time Stamp 1:10 - Information can be found here:

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

 

[Cool Cats]

The defense at George's last hearing was trying to read just certain parts of Jake's testimony to fit their narrative that George "shot nobody."

At the start of the hearing, Parker started to read aloud in court 10 excerpts of Jake Wagner's 12-hour confession. Canepa objected and fired back, saying it was clear the attorneys wanted to try the case before it ever got to trial.

I assume they were anxious to get Jake on the stand just to have him testify to those specific narratives.

But the prosecution made it clear that the totality of Jake's testimony doesn't mean George didn't shoot anybody and they implicated George in the shootings.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

And Canepa stated that Jake contradicted himself in his proffer.

The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

"Unfortunately, there is more than one devil in this case, and that is all four defendants charged in this matter.”

It's possible that these statements from Canepa contributed to the defense now wanting to keep Jake and Angela from testifying.

• Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'
• Judge refused to dismiss aggravated murder charges against eldest Wagner son in Pike County massacre

 

[Fat Old Man]

The defense at George's last hearing was trying to read just certain parts of Jake's testimony to fit their narrative that George "shot nobody."

At the start of the hearing, Parker started to read aloud in court 10 excerpts of Jake Wagner's 12-hour confession. Canepa objected and fired back, saying it was clear the attorneys wanted to try the case before it ever got to trial.

I assume they were anxious to get Jake on the stand just to have him testify to those specific narratives.

But the prosecution made it clear that the totality of Jake's testimony doesn't mean George didn't shoot anybody and they implicated George in the shootings.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

And Canepa stated that Jake contradicted himself in his proffer.

The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

"Unfortunately, there is more than one devil in this case, and that is all four defendants charged in this matter.”

It's possible that these statements from Canepa contributed to the defense now wanting to keep Jake and Angela from testifying.

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I still say, if this goes to Trial, and I hope it does so we can learn more about what happen. That having your future (Life) hanging on, if JW or AW tells the truth. They will have the Death Penalty reinstated. When more then 1 person, is trying to tell the same lie, the lie will unravel. They already are saying JW, contradicted himself in his proffer. All my opinion But the look on #4 face when he realizes his attorney had one of them admit they did not tell the truth in their testimony.
And the death penalty is now back on the table. I hope it is JW so we can see the smirk turn to a frown.