UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

Was he a planner re: MO? A trip to London specifically to abduct SL likely? At lunchtime (?) Would she meet him willingly when so busy?

Is he in her contact book & most importantly was he at the ex QE2 staff member wedding she went to with JH on Saturday June 28th in Leeds? And if he wasn’t there were any of his close friends/associates?

He becomes a whole lot more interesting as a person of interest IF at this wedding, reminiscing about old times & mixing with old buddies.

Very much so, also running 2 pubs later nearby is the clincher for me, i think if you look at his mo where he puts the bodys becomes more telling (as in distance from pubs)

 

[WestLondoner]

wow, 300 a week from superhire. top money back in 86.

Sounds a lot, you’re right, was JC telling truth (not exactly a habit ) or mis-remembering?

Definitely bu115hit.

The ONS says that in 1986, the average weekly male manual wage was £174.40. The average non-manual wage was £244.90.

The £300 a week claim is not credible.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Definitely bu115hit.

The ONS says that in 1986, the average weekly male manual wage was £174.40. The average non-manual wage was £244.90.

The £300 a week claim is not credible.

I did think that after I wrote. Will find source & date. How much money would he have access to? Probate likely through on his father by mid 1986 if not much earlier - mid 85.

Were you freely entitled to your own money? Was your income limited or monitored I wonder?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Very much so, also running 2 pubs later nearby is the clincher for me, i think if you look at his mo where he puts the bodys becomes more telling (as in distance from pubs)

Ah so, he was a ‘planner’ - will look at him a bit more. Surely a lunch time snatch not best idea?

SL’s effective recent reunion with QE2 folks interesting, I think, as so very recent.

I do think the danger with this case is you see coincidences wherever you look. MJ’s husband a likely chef on QE2 (in Stevenage Rd) in period of SL, etc, for example (although obviously not a SW! & uninvolved).

 

[WestLondoner]

A note about money. We've speculated that she was anxious to improve her financial position. The police commented that she was successful at handling money. She mentioned a £3,000 commission and this was clearly a material amount to her.

She bought her Disraeli Road flat in 1984. I calculate that she probably bought this for £55,000, with an 85% mortgage of £46,000 plus a £9,000 deposit of her own.

I derived this by working backwards from 1993's known estate value of £47,000. Assuming that was the proceeds of the flat sale in November 1986, it would have doubled over 7 years if on deposit at 10% (average rates over that time). So it must have started out as about £24,000.

The flat sold for £70,000 in 1986. So the £24,000 must be what was left after paying off the mortgage (the other £46,000).

I derived the ~£55,000 purchase price of Disraeli Road by applying two years of London house price inflation (10 to 12% a year in that period) to the 1986 price. This means a £70,000 property would have sold for £55,000 two years before.

So she put down £9,000 (inheritance from grandmother) and borrowed £46,000 to buy Disraeli. She'd have needed a salary of about £13,000 to get that mortgage. The repayments would have been about £420 a month and that salary would have brought in about £720 a month.

Her mortgage was thus costing her 58% of her net salary, before any other costs. Add in utilities, service charges and property taxes, all to be met from the £300 a month left over, and you can see why she needed the fully expensed company car plus Roger the Lodger. She was in no position to make any financial commitment of her own.

Note that Cannan's claim of being on £300 a week humping cases around disintegrates when you consider that this is more than SJL would have had to spend in a month.

 

[lee sumner]

The serial rapist Clive Barwell was running a hotel when he was only 3 years into his 16 and a half sentence for armed robbery. Barwell was still technically in custody, but in reality had almost complete freedom of movement.

barwell. never heard of him, but i will do some research.

 

[lee sumner]

Steve wrights mo is the one thing i cannot let go, a very sly character had the opportunity on the day and bodys and crimes are all being associated to him even now. Jc had no link to sl but sw did in abundance

iam not sure i believe SL and SW even knew each other. yes, they worked on QE2. but does not mean they were friends.

 

[lee sumner]

That’s right. Interestingly right by Sturgis HQ, flagship office as was. He lived in Bahamas half year, family based there. The Park Lane flat the London bolthole.

park lane. very posh.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

A note about money. We've speculated that she was anxious to improve her financial position. The police commented that she was successful at handling money. She mentioned a £3,000 commission and this was clearly a material amount to her.

She bought her Disraeli Road flat in 1984. I calculate that she probably bought this for £55,000, with an 85% mortgage of £46,000 plus a £9,000 deposit of her own.

I derived this by working backwards from 1993's known estate value of £47,000. Assuming that was the proceeds of the flat sale in November 1986, it would have doubled over 7 years if on deposit at 10% (average rates over that time). So it must have started out as about £24,000.

The flat sold for £70,000 in 1986. So the £24,000 must be what was left after paying off the mortgage (the other £46,000).

I derived the ~£55,000 purchase price of Disraeli Road by applying two years of London house price inflation (10 to 12% a year in that period) to the 1986 price. This means a £70,000 property would have sold for £55,000 two years before.

So she put down £9,000 (inheritance from grandmother) and borrowed £46,000 to buy Disraeli. She'd have needed a salary of about £13,000 to get that mortgage. The repayments would have been about £420 a month and that salary would have brought in about £720 a month.

Her mortgage was thus costing her 58% of her net salary, before any other costs. Add in utilities, service charges and property taxes, all to be met from the £300 a month left over, and you can see why she needed the fully expensed company car plus Roger the Lodger. She was in no position to make any financial commitment of her own.

Note that Cannan's claim of being on £300 a week humping cases around disintegrates when you consider that this is more than SJL would have had to spend in a month.

Following the money was/is so important in this case. JC’s cash withdrawals helped nail him for DT & SB.

Great data here on SL! Will absorb.

Did he have access to his father’s inheritance. Seemingly we know he was spending more from May. Was he behind potentially lucrative robberies at Superhire - the only ones seemingly on record when he was there & towards end of stay (?)

He had enough £ for HP agreement on car - admittedly prob not much required - but shows he had some funds.

Re: SL. Mum had propped her up financially on previous rent in Walham Grove.

Her lifestyle didn’t match income said police - but how much of it did she actually pay for? Was she receiving cash/moonlighting? Massage/facials.

When police did ‘follow the money’ they found another man in 151 club, buying her champagne, following up on credit card slip. This was when with the expat in club - they seemed to have dived deeply into her time with him.

She was ‘careful’ with money said friends (AS) & “one day would be very rich” said friends yet was seemingly taking quite a big risk with joint purchaser?

She could be extravagant (?) shared gift for Mum’s 50th but tickets & London hotel stay instigated by her.

She was looking to act as a ‘courier’ to go to NZ to see sisters to save on fare. A legitimate means back then, I think, but very faint echoes of ‘deal’ & ‘mailing address’ bargain buy perhaps? No such thing as free lunch.

This 3k com mentioned at party. Presumably not the NH hoped for commission missed (?)

Also at party mentioned make or model of car wanted - Mercedes from memory? Then we have man in mystery contact book who she was buying a car from. How could she afford?

She was looking to move on from Sturgis some evidence states, as a previous poster said, ‘a foot out the door’. Was she taking more risks in this period?

Did not having the money mean she couldn’t afford proposed purchase anymore make her pull out of a deal? Did she miss an expected instalment. Did she have debt - man ‘leaning on her’? Loan shark involvement perhaps known by family but seen as irrelevant & shameful? Never a borrower or lender be.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

iam not sure i believe SL and SW even knew each other. yes, they worked on QE2. but does not mean they were friends.

Tend to agree but some articles do suggest they knew each other.

 

[RichardKimble]

Ah so, he was a ‘planner’ - will look at him a bit more. Surely a lunch time snatch not best idea?

SL’s effective recent reunion with QE2 folks interesting, I think, as so very recent.

I do think the danger with this case is you see coincidences wherever you look. MJ’s husband a likely chef on QE2 (in Stevenage Rd) in period of SL, etc, for example (although obviously not a SW! & uninvolved).

The thing is it could be argued a lunchtime snatch not a good idea, but yet some one seems to have pulled it off without seemingly leaving any clue.

 

[RichardKimble]

iam not sure i believe SL and SW even knew each other. yes, they worked on QE2. but does not mean they were friends.

Tend to agree but some articles do suggest they knew each other.

But there's more chance they knew each other more than SJL and JC did, that's not to say JC didn't do for SJL, but we've never seen any thing that categorically ruled SW out or come to that compelling evidence it was JC.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But there's more chance they knew each other more than SJL and JC did, that's not to say JC didn't do for SJL, but we've never seen any thing that categorically ruled SW out.

True.

 

[lee sumner]

Following the money was/is so important in this case. JC’s cash withdrawals helped nail him for DT & SB.

Great data here on SL! Will absorb.

Did he have access to his father’s inheritance. Seemingly we know he was spending more from May. Was he behind potentially lucrative robberies at Superhire - the only ones seemingly on record when he was there & towards end of stay (?)

He had enough £ for HP agreement on car - admittedly prob not much required - but shows he had some funds.

Re: SL. Mum had propped her up financially on previous rent in Walham Grove.

Her lifestyle didn’t match income said police - but how much of it did she actually pay for? Was she receiving cash/moonlighting? Massage/facials.

When police did ‘follow the money’ they found another man in 151 club, buying her champagne, following up on credit card slip. This was when with the expat in club - they seemed to have dived deeply into her time with him.

She was ‘careful’ with money said friends (AS) & “one day would be very rich” said friends yet was seemingly taking quite a big risk with joint purchaser?

She could be extravagant (?) shared gift for Mum’s 50th but tickets & London hotel stay instigated by her.

She was looking to act as a ‘courier’ to go to NZ to see sisters to save on fare. A legitimate means back then, I think, but very faint echoes of ‘deal’ & ‘mailing address’ bargain buy perhaps? No such thing as free lunch.

This 3k com mentioned at party. Presumably not the NH hoped for commission missed (?)

Also at party mentioned make or model of car wanted - Mercedes from memory? Then we have man in mystery contact book who she was buying a car from. How could she afford?

She was looking to move on from Sturgis some evidence states, as a previous poster said, ‘a foot out the door’. Was she taking more risks in this period?

Did not having the money mean she couldn’t afford proposed purchase anymore make her pull out of a deal? Did she miss an expected instalment. Did she have debt - man ‘leaning on her’? Loan shark involvement perhaps known by family but seen as irrelevant & shameful? Never a borrower or lender be.

this is great info. if SL had 24 grand coming back to her from the sale of her flat. that is the equivalent of over 80 grand in today money according to inflation data. serious money back then.

 

[lee sumner]

Following the money was/is so important in this case. JC’s cash withdrawals helped nail him for DT & SB.

Great data here on SL! Will absorb.

Did he have access to his father’s inheritance. Seemingly we know he was spending more from May. Was he behind potentially lucrative robberies at Superhire - the only ones seemingly on record when he was there & towards end of stay (?)

He had enough £ for HP agreement on car - admittedly prob not much required - but shows he had some funds.

Re: SL. Mum had propped her up financially on previous rent in Walham Grove.

Her lifestyle didn’t match income said police - but how much of it did she actually pay for? Was she receiving cash/moonlighting? Massage/facials.

When police did ‘follow the money’ they found another man in 151 club, buying her champagne, following up on credit card slip. This was when with the expat in club - they seemed to have dived deeply into her time with him.

She was ‘careful’ with money said friends (AS) & “one day would be very rich” said friends yet was seemingly taking quite a big risk with joint purchaser?

She could be extravagant (?) shared gift for Mum’s 50th but tickets & London hotel stay instigated by her.

She was looking to act as a ‘courier’ to go to NZ to see sisters to save on fare. A legitimate means back then, I think, but very faint echoes of ‘deal’ & ‘mailing address’ bargain buy perhaps? No such thing as free lunch.

This 3k com mentioned at party. Presumably not the NH hoped for commission missed (?)

Also at party mentioned make or model of car wanted - Mercedes from memory? Then we have man in mystery contact book who she was buying a car from. How could she afford?

She was looking to move on from Sturgis some evidence states, as a previous poster said, ‘a foot out the door’. Was she taking more risks in this period?

Did not having the money mean she couldn’t afford proposed purchase anymore make her pull out of a deal? Did she miss an expected instalment. Did she have debt - man ‘leaning on her’? Loan shark involvement perhaps known by family but seen as irrelevant & shameful? Never a borrower or lender be.

SL, her sturgis income was 12 thousand a yr, which is equivalent to around 44 grand in today money. factor in her commision from sales and NB monthly payments, she was doing really well for a young woman who is only 25 yrs old. she could have been earning around 60 grand a year in today money.

 

[lee sumner]

Following the money was/is so important in this case. JC’s cash withdrawals helped nail him for DT & SB.

Great data here on SL! Will absorb.

Did he have access to his father’s inheritance. Seemingly we know he was spending more from May. Was he behind potentially lucrative robberies at Superhire - the only ones seemingly on record when he was there & towards end of stay (?)

He had enough £ for HP agreement on car - admittedly prob not much required - but shows he had some funds.

Re: SL. Mum had propped her up financially on previous rent in Walham Grove.

Her lifestyle didn’t match income said police - but how much of it did she actually pay for? Was she receiving cash/moonlighting? Massage/facials.

When police did ‘follow the money’ they found another man in 151 club, buying her champagne, following up on credit card slip. This was when with the expat in club - they seemed to have dived deeply into her time with him.

She was ‘careful’ with money said friends (AS) & “one day would be very rich” said friends yet was seemingly taking quite a big risk with joint purchaser?

She could be extravagant (?) shared gift for Mum’s 50th but tickets & London hotel stay instigated by her.

She was looking to act as a ‘courier’ to go to NZ to see sisters to save on fare. A legitimate means back then, I think, but very faint echoes of ‘deal’ & ‘mailing address’ bargain buy perhaps? No such thing as free lunch.

This 3k com mentioned at party. Presumably not the NH hoped for commission missed (?)

Also at party mentioned make or model of car wanted - Mercedes from memory? Then we have man in mystery contact book who she was buying a car from. How could she afford?

She was looking to move on from Sturgis some evidence states, as a previous poster said, ‘a foot out the door’. Was she taking more risks in this period?

Did not having the money mean she couldn’t afford proposed purchase anymore make her pull out of a deal? Did she miss an expected instalment. Did she have debt - man ‘leaning on her’? Loan shark involvement perhaps known by family but seen as irrelevant & shameful? Never a borrower or lender be.

i believe SL told friends she would have a mercedes by 1989. it does sound like she was materialistic. some people just love money.