OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #71

[Recidivist]

I'm confused, or not.

In a murder trial, who else is there to confess, other than the killer?

The thing is, is that George didn't confess. It is the confession of a killer and known liar whose confession implicates George.

 

[molly1255]

Do you think she accepted the proffer without knowing all the evidence?? I don't see that happening. Did she accept his proffer knowing that it would not match the evidence? Was not all of the test finished when she accepted the proffer or did she accept the proffer giving JW the chance to tell the truth but he didn't so proffer is off the table?? Or am I confused

I'm confused, too. Wasn't the deal made that if JW was untruthful, the death penalty is back on the table? I wonder if AC might be going for putting the death penalty back on the table?

 

[joe jones]

I think when look at what else has been said about that night.. the planned meeting to discuss a deal. Would Billy wear shoes several sizes too small to a planned meeting? Would he wear tennis shoes if he usually wore work boots? I think that would be a huge red flag right away. It would stick out like a sore thumb. I am sure the defense could argue anything they want, but I am going on the thought that whatever story Angela and Jake told was independent of each other, without having the evidence that LE had in order to make up the perfect story. If what these two said matched evidence they had then it just further confirms the story. What is the outlier would be Billy and George saying they weren't there.

I think the first step was tell the story of how the victims were discovered.
Give first responders the chance to explain what they did or didn't do, how they didn't mess with the scene or move anyone, change anything, etc.
Then bring in BCI to explain how they gathered the evidence.
Bring in experts to explain further
introduce Jake and Angela's version

If it all lines up, then it presents a strong case for how all 4 were involved.

We also don't know what was on the recordings and voice mails they have or in any of the testimony from George's ex and Jakes ex.

JW and AW knew all the evidence, by the time they made their proffer statements they had all the discovery so could tell a story that fit some of the evidence, how AC squared JW story of the shooting (the story she told us came from JW to the evidence of the ballistics today) I don't know, but maybe if we get to hear all JW proffer he hopefully explains BW shooting CR and GR that aligns with the evidence we heard today

 

[rebelchild]

I don’t remember much blood being on the deck side of the threshold, is that right? At least not pooled like in front of chair?

Omigosh, I just keep thinking about BJM walking into that. Poor woman. Poor FAMILIES! I have been (am) much more emotional watching this than I imagined.

I would think that she (BJM) left some of those shoe prints since she went back to the bedroom and found CRsr & GR .. and what about the guy that was with her when she found them?

 

[molly1255]

by the time she accepted his proffer she knew all the evidence,

I absolutely agree that AC knew all the evidence when she accepted the proffer. In a case like this that has so many twists and turns, it wouldn't surprise me if AC has something big up her sleeve. I hope so.

 

[joe jones]

I think when look at what else has been said about that night.. the planned meeting to discuss a deal. Would Billy wear shoes several sizes too small to a planned meeting? Would he wear tennis shoes if he usually wore work boots? I think that would be a huge red flag right away. It would stick out like a sore thumb. I am sure the defense could argue anything they want, but I am going on the thought that whatever story Angela and Jake told was independent of each other, without having the evidence that LE had in order to make up the perfect story. If what these two said matched evidence they had then it just further confirms the story. What is the outlier would be Billy and George saying they weren't there.

I think the first step was tell the story of how the victims were discovered.
Give first responders the chance to explain what they did or didn't do, how they didn't mess with the scene or move anyone, change anything, etc.
Then bring in BCI to explain how they gathered the evidence.
Bring in experts to explain further
introduce Jake and Angela's version

If it all lines up, then it presents a strong case for how all 4 were involved.

We also don't know what was on the recordings and voice mails they have or in any of the testimony from George's ex and Jakes ex.

JW and AW knew all the evidence, by the time they made their proffer statements they had all the discovery so could tell a story that fit some of the evidence, how AC squared JW story of the shooting (the story she told us came from JW to the evidence of the ballistics today) I don't know, but maybe if we get to hear all JW proffer he hopefully explains BW shooting CR and GR that aligns with the evidence we heard today

 

[molly1255]

I would think so. So she just let him tell his story without revealing what she knew. She even read it into the record in her opening statement so as to justify removing the proffer?? She also got more information from him, tho

THIS is what I'm considering, You just stated it so much more clearly than I did!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I am sure we will find out more about what position GR and CR were in when shot, they are the 2 who were moving targets,

if I was defense, I would want to know if any prints were Bobbie Jo , if she had blood on her shoes when police confiscated her shoes at station, tested to see if she left any prints, I doubt she was worried about where she trod when she went in saw the blood ran to their bedroom and then ran out, she must have been horrified, terrified and all the fieds in between, and she followed the path that the deceased were dragged so at some point she must have stepped in blood,

LE who went in to clear the house climbed on furniture, over the treadmill to get to the deceased as there was so much blood on floor, they didn't want to disturb crime scene

This is why LE get fingerprints, DNA, shoe prints and other stuff from anyone who lives/lived in the home or who discovered the crime scene. It would be normal for the person discovering the bodies to leave traces behind. I wonder, though, if the Wagners underestimated the carnage their murder spree would cause--all the blood pools, blood spatter. They left a messy scene.

 

[twall]

Did the police recover the shoes that were worn that night?

no

Agents never found the shoes that were used in the killings or the shoes that Angela bought, but alluded in their opening statements on Monday that Jake Wagner confessed to burning them with his family after the murders. The state has yet to introduce who was wearing which shoe size but said all three Wagner men — Billy, George, and Jake — wore the same type, but in different size.

DAY 5: The bloody shoe print in George Wagner IV’s trial is finally introduced

WAVERLY, Ohio — On the fifth day of trial for George Wagner IV in Pike County, the so-called “smoking gun” was finally introduced: a bloody shoeprint at one of the crime scenes. F…

sciotovalleyguardian.com

 

[Pru2U]

I would think that she (BJM) left some of those shoe prints since she went back to the bedroom and found CRsr & GR .. and what about the guy that was with her when she found them?

Yes, I would think so.

The officer testifying yesterday said it was dark in FR’s place so BJM & friend we’re probably already 2-3 steps in before it hit them. I can’t remember if she gave up her clothing there or at police station (I feel sure her dad said something to the press about it) but BCI stated today he needed all shoes/footprints of everyone who had entered the scene prior to him so they had theirs pretty quick. Additionally, he mentioned the SO’s stayed to the wall as to not further taint the scene. BJM & friend may have walked straight down the middle of the hall. Just a normal reaction.

These investigators know what they’re doing…even if none of them had ever worked such a complex set of crime scenes.

 

[joe jones]

If BW stood in the doorway with both doors open then I can see it being outside to in, as the front door opened directly into the living room, the house had two doors on it, one was a storm door, I live where we only have one door, so is storm door the door on the outside and regular door on the inside

 

[Piffcat]

I absolutely agree that AC knew all the evidence when she accepted the proffer. In a case like this that has so many twists and turns, it wouldn't surprise me if AC has something big up her sleeve. I hope so.

really what this is everything wrong with our justice system. everyone knew/knows the wagners did it. but the bar for "reasonable doubt" is set soooo low now thanks to the csi effect, slick defense attorneys who come up with ridiculous stratedgies to thwart justice cuz its "their duty" g4 lawyer filed one motion where he stated they couldnt ut g4 at the scene because they did not have a video of him commiting the crime. can you believe that?? no murderer would every be convicted under this standard. g4 is put at he scene by his mom and brother. the fact that jake is trying to say he did not shoot anyone clearly is an attempt to lower georges involvment. if george wasnt even there why the hell wouldnt jake just say he wasnt there??? thats way better defense then i wasnt supposed to go but i did or whatver bs hes selling. a testifying codefendant with confirmed evedince and co defendents on the wire are the 2 biggest pieces of evidence a prosecutor could have. ac has both!!

 

[joe jones]

I would think so. So she just let him tell his story without revealing what she knew. She even read it into the record in her opening statement so as to justify removing the proffer?? She also got more information from him, tho

JW and AW knew everything AC did, by time proffers came around all discovery had been handed to the defense

 

[Lilttledoggie]

If BW stood in the doorway with both doors open then I can see it being outside to in, as the front door opened directly into the living room, the house had two doors on it, one was a storm door, I live where we only have one door, so is storm door the door on the outside and regular door on the inside

Storm door on outside, regular door on inside.

 

[twall]

If BW stood in the doorway with both doors open then I can see it being outside to in, as the front door opened directly into the living room, the house had two doors on it, one was a storm door, I live where we only have one door, so is storm door the door on the outside and regular door on the inside

yes, storm door is outside with outswing, regular door inside with inswing. Most exterior doors in the USA have wood cores with vinyl, fiberglass or metal clad exteriors, including storm doors.

 

[joe jones]

Does anybody know if the guns had to be reloaded that night, or would a .22 and al .40 caliber gun hold enough bullets for them to be able to shoot most of the victim's multiple times

 

[justtrish]

JW and AW knew all the evidence, by the time they made their proffer statements they had all the discovery so could tell a story that fit some of the evidence, how AC squared JW story of the shooting (the story she told us came from JW to the evidence of the ballistics today) I don't know, but maybe if we get to hear all JW proffer he hopefully explains BW shooting CR and GR that aligns with the evidence we heard today

Have they said the discovery was all available to the defense at that point? When was his trial set for and when did he plea? I would think if what he was saying was not authentic, it would at least seem like he was trying to fit the story to the evidence vs just telling the story as he remembered it and then seeing where the evidence added up.

 

[joe jones]

Have they said the discovery was all available to the defense at that point? When was his trial set for and when did he plea? I would think if what he was saying was not authentic, it would at least seem like he was trying to fit the story to the evidence vs just telling the story as he remembered it and then seeing where the evidence added up.

they had been in prison since 2018, JW pled guilty on 5th anniversary of murders, so by then they were well into trial prep for all 4, it came as a surprise to most who have followed this case as I know I expected all 4 to go to trial. so, all 4 defense teams would have had discovery,

 

[twall]

Does anybody know if the guns had to be reloaded that night, or would a .22 and al .40 caliber gun hold enough bullets for them to be able to shoot most of the victim's multiple times

They wouldn't have to reload as the magazine will hold a dozen or more bullets depending on the size of it. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

So that only proves that Angela purchased the shoes. How do they prove those shoes were on George's foot?

She flat out said she bought the shoes for George and Jake to wear that night. They recorded her and probably videoed her saying this on the Montana border. She said she bought shoes in the types and sizes they don't wear, probably why they didn't care about leaving footprints. But the footprints showed there was no worn tread. Shows new tread. She bought them early April 2016.

George and Jake denied that Angela showed them the shoes. Angela said she showed them the shoes but they hated them so she threw them out.

It was mentioned in court yesterday that she could have returned them and got her money back.

But BCI split the Wagner's up so they couldn't get their stupid story straight.