OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #75

[Cool Cats]

Wonder what the photos were of?

Which photos?

 

[Cool Cats]

The only thing I have seen so far as solid proof on George is he put the wrong date on the custody statement. He dated it 2014 when the prosecution proved they were not printed out until 2016. But I don't think that in itself is a crime, unless he submitted his custody statement in a court of law. That is the only real proof I have seen against him so far. I am anxiously waiting for more.

JMO

Jake implicates George in his proffer so the question is, will the jury believe what Jake says about George in his testimony on the stand?

I'm a bit perplexed. The prosecution said they had enough to convict George in all 4 parts of the crime but more and more it seems like it is boiling down to whether or not the jury believes what Jake has to say on the stand.

I am waiting for more direct testimony that George is involved aside from the proffers.

I still think the totality of evidence shows his guilt but I need to hear guilt on the BCI recordings and a few other things that don't only come from Jake. Proof not only from Jake.

Shoe expert will testify and we still have Angela, etc....

Jury's are unpredictable so them believing Jake could be what convicts George. I think George has done things in the conspiracy and murders that seem to need Jake and Angela's testimony. George bought some things but we need his mom's and brother's testimony to prove why he bought them and how he used them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Trash Pull and a few incriminating starements.

Canepa said there are wiretap recordings catching George speaking to Jake about them being in trouble, and that Jake should have smashed his laptop and thrown away his phone.

It won't be hard for the State to prove that George was going along with his family's Murder Conspiracy. They have 8,000 recordings of interest. Remember these few quotes from George?

Incriminating statements:

1.) If they have the gun they have the silencer. (After Scheiderer sent George Jake's phone photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
2.) I told you to get rid of your phone. (After Scheiderer sent photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
3.) We have a family emergency. (After Scheiderer sent photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
4.) Don't come down here ( to Billy - we have company. (BCI was at Peterson Rd.)
5.) Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
6.) I want to bash Scheiderer's face in.
7.) Make Reader pay make DeWine pay - violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
8.) We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
9.) I bought a night scope.
10.) I bought a Captain America mask.
11.) Making fun of Jake's religion many times = they don't celebrate Halloween so what was the mask for?
12.) Those not arrested will break the others out of jail.
13.) We will take revenge against anyone who goes against us.

Canepa said in her closing argument at the Bond Hearing that George's buying a night scope made it convenient to shoot people in bed in the middle of the night.

Canepa & Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing

• Angela Wagner | PDF March 20th 2019 Angela's Discovery

Trash pull from Days Inn

These photos from the discovery you posted. 31 of them. Post #700.


• Angela Wagner | PDF March 20th 2019 Angela's Discovery

Trash pull from Days Inn

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[RAISINISBACK]

Does any of you Sleuthers remember the first few days after the murders, it was posted on a social media site the Pike county Police Department had a Officer posted at the Rhodens homes making sure nobody messed with them and one night a Officer saw a couple people trying to sneak around the hillside towards the homes but they got away it was said they was dressed in dark clothing and ski mask, JMO

I do remember that JBB.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, I remember that story, but it wasn't in legit news, so we couldn't discuss it here. It was in the news, though, that PCSD posted deputies at the crime scenes for a while after the murders. Spooky to think about someone trying to get in there. There were also people with ski masks on at the home of Kenny's ex-wife.

The W's may have been trying to get back into the murder scenes to recover any casings they might have missed.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

They transported cattle and probably many different items which, yes, some pay more.

Remember what I said about the cattle rustlers here? All they do is cut the barbed wire fence and herd prime Angus steers into a cattle hauler. They then take them to Mexico where they trade them for drugs to bring back and sell in the USA. Maybe a 30 minute job on a dark night with a couple of good cutter ponies. About 20 to 25 prime Angus steers are worth around $100,000.00. It has gotten so bad in the last ten years OHP has been pulling over cattle haulers traveling late at night here and Texas rangers have also in TX. Kansas HP has also I heard.

You could fit 25 steers in that cattle hauler easily.

JMo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It was interesting Billy, G & J's source of employment seemed to the Wagner Trucking Co, a family business. Maybe just enough income reported to collect Medicaid or other Govt. benefits?? An incentive to file minimal taxes? Govt benefits had been denied before for both G & J because they had no reportable income.

Per their calendar they certainly didn't have a lot of trucking work, only sporadically through-out the year of 2015. Would that income be enough to support their lifestyle?

Also noted, several supposed trips to Pennsylvania, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas. Wonder what they were legally/illegally hauling? The property they tried to fraudulently purchase was in Missouri.

JMO, IMO and etc.

Cattle rustling is a very profitable business.

JMo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

According to GW4 ex-wife GW4 was 23 years old when she left him and neither Jake or George didn’t worked the time she lived with the Wagners, so where did all the big boy toys come from? Also remember what she said that the Wagners just got $289000 from the trailer they burned at Bethel Hill Rd.

Didn't she say George was at work once when she asked to use his phone to call her mom? I may have heard it wrong.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

So Billy admitted the fight? So it can be brought up at trial?

he denied they had a fight in the interview. It wasn't made a big deal of and the conversation moved on to something else. He said they had lunch together that week and according to Billy, something was bothering Chris sr, but they had no fight.

Was the deal they won't discuss any fight including that recording? I don't recall if the prosecution asked the BCI agent about any fight. I don't think he did.

 

[justtrish]

Didn't she say George was at work once when she asked to use his phone to call her mom? I may have heard it wrong.

JMO

She did say that. I remember it!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Walmart receipt.. interesting there is something M hanes.. maybe the black shirts? also cough syrup and gas relief.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578518325721587713

One of the ski masks

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578380442398609414

M Hanes was actually a women's Bra.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So if his DP goes off the table I assume that means his plea deal goes away and then he would have to have a trial, be found guilty, then be able to appeal?

I don't know. He pled guilty. They agreed if he gave his proffer the DP would be taken off the table for him and his family. But the prosecution can renege on their side at any time. Nothing is in the law that says they have to stand by their agreement with him. In fact they have made it clear their agreement carries the right to withdraw it if he lies.

Jakes proffer is shaky I think, because of what AC said in pre trial hearings. She said Jake told several different stories before settling on one. And even then his story did not mesh with evidence BCI had. P&N heard her say that.

I think AC knows its shaky and that is why she brought up Sam & Tabitha to try to bolster his testimony. But they both failed miserably for her with Sam turning out to almost being a character witness for George. I think that is why AC made sure to get in two comments from Sam about how honest Jake is.

But Sam blew that by saying Jake always blamed everything he did on George. For Jake to blame George for what he did, he had to be lying to Angie or whoever. Conflicting testimony from this witness. The part about George being short with her when she was talking about the murders really proved nothing. He knew Hannah for many years and was friends with Frankie. That could be taken that he just was very upset. Or that he did not agree with what his family did and was very angry about it.

I know you are going to say why didn't he turn them in before they did it? But this happened in Appalachia where family is everything and you don't snitch on them. And let's say he did go to police saying they were planning these murders. Then Billy, Angie and Jake denies everything and says he is just lying because he is mad at them about something. Would police have believed him? Or would he have left himself wide open for an "accident"?

Tabitha was a disaster for the prosecution I think. Her direct testimony was they locked her up and wouldn't let her leave or call her mother, wouldn't let her see her mother or her family, that they were abusive and controlling, that she had to flee for her life, that they had taken her son and wouldn't let her see him.

Then on cross she admits she was free to come and go and even stay the night with her friend and George was fine with her doing that. Until George found out she was having a long term affair with her friends dad. Which by my count was her 3rd in their marriage. Yet he didn't kick her to the curb, which most men would have, he just took her phone. We also find out he took her phone because she was using it to call her mother, who was taking her to hook up with the friends dad she was having the affair with.

Then he gets her to admit the reason George didn't want her or their son around her family is because her stepdad sexually abused her and all her sisters with her mothers knowledge. Her mother did not stop it or do anything about it, in fact she stayed married to him until he died 5 years ago. Remember that meeting where George tried to get them to go to the police? Even if the abuse happened when she was a child if she went to police, the stepdad would have been charged with it. There is really no statue of limitations on that. Think Bill Cosby and Prince Andrew, Jeffery Epstein.

She could only name once George hit her, the night she left. She admitted she told BCI that the belt thing was just "horseplay". She admitted that George tried to keep her from going outside in the cold without her shoes or coat on, then tried to get her to go back in the house. She said she was screaming and he told her to stop and she screamed louder. At that point he slapped her. My opinion was because she was upsetting their son, because she testified George told Hannah to take him upstairs. She got on her bicycle after dark and was riding it, even then she admitted George came after her and tried to get her to come home with him. After all that he gave her the money to pay her fine and took her to pay it.

She then testified that she voluntarily left her son with George because the only place she had to go was to her mother's and like George she did not want her son around a man who had sexually abused her and her sisters. Even her own mother offered to give her money for an attorney to get custody, but by inference from what she testified, she spent the money on "Jay" the lover and her mother told her she needed to make her son her number one priority and not Jay.

Then she openly admitted that George had offered to buy her a ticket for her and her daughter and rent her a hotel so she could come to AK to her son. She refused his offer and had an off the wall remark that she "didn't feel like dying". I do not think she could be so stupid to believe he would kill her when they were already under investigation by the BCI for killing Jake's ex. That would have been the height of stupidity on George's and really any of their part. She goes missing in AK when everyone knows she went to see George and her son and the BCI wouldn't have waited to arrest them. My opinion is George just wanted to see her because he missed her. She then admitted she did not file for custody of her son until BCI told her she needed to, leading me to believe she didn't really want the financial burden of caring for him when she had another child.

Topping off her testimony was her admitting she loved George and always would. That she believed if they had just let her go outside to cool off for five minutes her and George would have still been married to this day. To me that sounded like very wistful testimony and if George walks and would take her back she would gladly return to live with him. So IMO she couldn't think he was all that terrible a person if she still felt that way about him.

Granted she hates Angie and blames her for her and George's breakup. I think that is why she did not opt out, hoping Angie would hear every bad thing she had to say about her and would see her face as she was saying it.

But that is just MY opinion from watching Tabitha's testimony.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So Billy admitted the fight? So it can be brought up at trial?

No Billy denied it when asked by BCI about it in the interview. But the AC played the interview in court where the jury could hear it and was admonished by the judge.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jake implicates George in his proffer so the question is, will the jury believe what Jake says about George in his testimony on the stand?

I'm a bit perplexed. The prosecution said they had enough to convict George in all 4 parts of the crime but more and more it seems like it is boiling down to whether or not the jury believes what Jake has to say on the stand.

I am waiting for more direct testimony that George is involved aside from the proffers.

I still think the totality of evidence shows his guilt but I need to hear guilt on the BCI recordings and a few other things that don't only come from Jake. Proof not only from Jake.

Shoe expert will testify and we still have Angela, etc....

Jury's are unpredictable so them believing Jake could be what convicts George. I think George has done things in the conspiracy and murders that seem to need Jake and Angela's testimony. George bought some things but we need his mom's and brother's testimony to prove why he bought them and how he used them.

What I keep thinking is this is a jury from Pike county. I did not know anyone from Appalachia until I came on this thread. I have since came to the conclusion they are a very intelligent and proud people. I admire their tenacity in the face of all odds and hardships.

But a lot of them are living under the poverty line. Drugs have decimated families and the area. Pike County has been said to be among the poorest in the state of Ohio. So I really do not think the jury is going to view George and his family as enmeshed when it is common in the area (from listening to people's stories on here who are from there) for three generations of a family to live in one house because of financial reasons. More than likely everyone on that jury is either in that situation themselves or has family or knows someone who is.

I also think the jury will not take as harsh a view of George not snitching on them before they carried out their plan either. Remember there, family is everything. Family sticks together through thick and thin. We saw that in the R, M and G families also. It is a belief that has been carried down through generations.

But we will see.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

So if his DP goes off the table I assume that means his plea deal goes away and then he would have to have a trial, be found guilty, then be able to appeal?

Isn't the plea "deal", as far as Jake himself is considered a thing of the past? He pled guilty, was asked EVERY step of the way if he understood what he was doing and what it meant. He wasn't convicted under the law because of evidence shown, he confessed. Isn't there a big difference under the law? Is there a legal way back to innocent until proven guilty as you plead guilty? After being warned and asked repetitively if what you were confessing was of your own free will?

 

[ohioexpat63]

Im not being argumentative, Raize, but from my experience, the Wagner's aren't the norm in this western most edge of Appalachia. I grew up in Scioto County. I dont know any family having generations living under one roof. Some own acres and live in different homes but not in the same house. Obviously, im just commenting on my experiences.

If AC can close the loop it wont matter what I think. I dont need to know but depending on where an individual lives in Pike County their experiences can vastly differ.

The Rs and Ws definitely lived in very rural ohio. It is a different style of living than those living along 23. Jmo

 

[Niner]

Columbus Day

Actually Indigenous People Day...

Even Columbus, Ohio, the largest city named after the Italian navigator, has changed its tune: In 2018, it stopped celebrating Columbus Day, and in 2020 it declared October 12 Indigenous Peoples' Day.

 

[Niner]

Docket update for GW4:

10/07/2022 SUBPOENA ISSUED TO BARBARA MOORE
Attorney: NASH, JR, RICHARD M

link: https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/e...AXjtysgcD7Q22DTtkKPTeUyp16CUyRFZ4J8SFSHRrzGuw


How come her name sounds familiar??

 

[Piffcat]

I don't believe George at 23 and Jake at 22 never worked. I think they did odd jobs but just didn't go to a regular 30 to 40 an hour job at the same place everyday. Somehow they had to financially help Angela. Someone just said something about them not making enough money for disability so maybe they did just sit around and pretend they were disabled.

Maybe hoping for welfare money for George's son.

What is in MSM is that they worked for that guy fixing vehicles where they stored their trailers. That people brought vehicles to them to fix at Peterson Rd., that they worked for an over the road trucking company of which BCI bugged their truck. In Ak they had tools and did truck repairs.

Jake said he worked on his family farm and that could have been both at Defiance Farms and at FWF.

They just didn't seem to work the regular steady 9 to 5 regular hour type of jobs.

I personally believe they did alot of feeding and cleaning Involving the animals when they lived next to FWF on Bethel Hill Rd.

I think Fred helped them alot and maybe set up trust funds for them to get a certain amount of money a month. I doubt FW charged them rent on her Bethel Hill trailer so they lived free. Billy probably lived free at FWF.

Maybe a clearer financial picture will come up during the trial. There is a Motion that lists a ton of FW's bank statements tied into the Wagner's and I think she helped them out financially that way.

I'm just guessing so opinion only. I want to believe Tabby but it seems very strange to be married, have a son, support your mother, then simply not work at all. He is obviously healthy.

remember they had 289000 from the fire- even if this was used to buy peterson a healthy amount would be left over. im sure that would be used as capital for further criminal deals- drugs, guns, funding stolen rings. but id say alot of the illegal activity would center around transportation. having a legit semi able to travel for texas for "cattle" would be a wonderful asset for anyone interested in purchasing and moving fentanyl, meth, cocaine etc. was peterson title actually moved for 1 dollar and other considerations? this is a situation pops up alot in the murdaugh money theft/drug ring islands. its usually a sign of collaboration outside the law

 

[FonescaFan]

It was interesting Billy, G & J's source of employment seemed to the Wagner Trucking Co, a family business. Maybe just enough income reported to collect Medicaid or other Govt. benefits?? An incentive to file minimal taxes? Govt benefits had been denied before for both G & J because they had no reportable income.

Per their calendar they certainly didn't have a lot of trucking work, only sporadically through-out the year of 2015. Would that income be enough to support their lifestyle?

Also noted, several supposed trips to Pennsylvania, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas. Wonder what they were legally/illegally hauling? The property they tried to fraudulently purchase was in Missouri.

JMO, IMO and etc.

My guess is they claimed the trailers and other items as business expenses. Hence on paper they had little or no income, but in reality had more than enough money to live on.