OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #75

[Myland]

Was evidence shown George was in truck at Walmart? Friday testimony on the box and most items in the trailers/trucks should have been reduced to the papers on custody and Walmart receipt. Nothing else meant anything.Jmo

 

[joe jones]

Was evidence shown George was in truck at Walmart? Friday testimony on the box and most items in the trailers/trucks should have been reduced to the papers on custody and Walmart receipt. Nothing else meant anything.Jmo

it was GW truck in surveillance video, so far, no mention of who drove

 

[Piffcat]

another thing about all the "does this evidence have to do with george" remember that if not for the death penalty ALL OF THESE DEFENDANTS WOULD BE TRIED TOGETHER. one trial for one murder conspiracy. therefore the seperate trials are for the defendants benefit, this does not change evidence or discovery. essentially each trial can contain the exact same evidence it applies to everybody in conspiracy. very plain english in law- any member of conspiracy is responsible for all members actions- even if they had no idea the actions took place. once your in, your all in.

 

[justtrish]

I was interested in the fact that the Peterson property was so very large. If I understand, actually 2 parcels.
Then! I thought maybe this group of W’s was planning on claiming Farm subsidies.
Long ago, I researched Wagner name for subsidies and I found a public document indicating amounts paid out since ? 1990. The Elder Wagner had collected a very large sum of money over approx. 20 years from farm subsidies. Not saying it was illegal, because I don’t understand it.
I will try to find that post from long ago.
Anyway he point is, the Wagners have many different ways of collecting money that do not include a real job.
I would put nothing past them .
Awful thought - I have even begun to wonder if thy took out life insurance policies on the young children.
Also, Why have a life insurance policy on Jake and G4.? They produce no income, etc.
No life insurance on AW or Billy? Odd.

BBM - I would be very curious to know when those policies were taken out. All we know from the detailed budget/payment log Angie kept was those months after the murders it was being paid and noted there. I wonder if it was taken out some time between Jan and April of 2016.

 

[sunshineray]

<modsnip: quoted post removed>
MOO...JW pleads guilty to 5 murders. Who does that for any other reason but a deal to take the DP off the table because his lawyers have convinced him that the evidence against him will sentence him to death. JW goes one better in assuring none of his family will be sentenced to death in their trials he knows are coming. JW even makes it known, he didn't see brother GWIV kill anyone.

Now we've got GW. He says, via his lawyer's opening statement, I wasn't present with my father and brother that night. I was home.

For GWIV's lawyers to now challenge JW's testimony about the whereabouts of GWIV on that night would not serve their client's best interest at all. A man's brother is taking the blame and actually exonerating him of the multiple acts of murder.

To now but up a defense of I wasn't there, I didn't want anything to do with it...I don't like or get along with my brother, my parents are controlling, I'm different/separate from them...all that. His lawyers can't jive that with audio of GWIV (supposedly) sounding very gung ho about covering up and committing more violent acts. He's moving to AK with brother and parents to all live together again. He's still driving trucks with his brother and father. All happy togetherness.

Honestly, I think continuing this trial with the I wasn't there and thinking of cross examination hell for his brother is unrealistic and ill-advised. It might just backfire with GWIV getting the death penalty...who knows?

 

[ColMustard]

Earlier I posted that BW admitted to the altercation CRsr, he did not, he said "Didn't happen".

I ran out of edit time back there. Post #789

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Isn't the plea "deal", as far as Jake himself is considered a thing of the past? He pled guilty, was asked EVERY step of the way if he understood what he was doing and what it meant. He wasn't convicted under the law because of evidence shown, he confessed. Isn't there a big difference under the law? Is there a legal way back to innocent until proven guilty as you plead guilty? After being warned and asked repetitively if what you were confessing was of your own free will?

I am honestly not sure.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

MOO...JW pleads guilty to 5 murders. Who does that for any other reason but a deal to take the DP off the table because his lawyers have convinced him that the evidence against him will sentence him to death. JW goes one better in assuring none of his family will be sentenced to death in their trials he knows are coming. JW even makes it known, he didn't see brother GWIV kill anyone.

Now we've got GW. He says, via his lawyer's opening statement, I wasn't present with my father and brother that night. I was home.

For GWIV's lawyers to now challenge JW's testimony about the whereabouts of GWIV on that night would not serve their client's best interest at all. A man's brother is taking the blame and actually exonerating him of the multiple acts of murder.

To now but up a defense of I wasn't there, I didn't want anything to do with it...I don't like or get along with my brother, my parents are controlling, I'm different/separate from them...all that. His lawyers can't jive that with audio of GWIV (supposedly) sounding very gung ho about covering up and committing more violent acts. He's moving to AK with brother and parents to all live together again. He's still driving trucks with his brother and father. All happy togetherness.

Honestly, I think continuing this trial with the I wasn't there and thinking of cross examination hell for his brother is unrealistic and ill-advised. It might just backfire with GWIV getting the death penalty...who knows?

The defense attorneys never denied George was at the crime scenes. They just said he didn't shoot anyone.

Now they say he stayed home, why? Because they know that all the jury has to believe to convict George of murder is that he went along on the murders.

This is how it looks to me.

Never once in the Motions and Hearings did George's attorneys say he wasn't there. Never.

I think they changed their strategy because your client can't be along with his brother and dad while 8 murders are being committed.

I believe if the 12 jurors believe George went along, then they will convict him of murder, plain and simple.

 

[justtrish]

<modsnip: quoted post removed>

I do think what we've seen from Tabatha shows George is no saint and that he allowed mommy to control things even after he was married. Her testimony also shows how much they fought for the kids involved. None of that is a crime, but when we then see George trying to say he didn't know about any of this, it is suspicious because it seems he was involved in everything else in this family and not distant from his family at all.

I think if Jake and Angela are believable, the only hope for George is if he takes the stand and is more believable.

 

[justtrish]

After the break there's a long sidebar. After the jury is brought in, the judge reminds the jury that there's an agreement not to mention the altercation between BW and CRsr. 4:24:16

They also acknowledged discussing this in chambers.

Edited to add: Like the defense said, the tape speaks for itself. On the tape they said the tip was that BW got in a fight with CRsr, BW pulled a gun and CRsr took it from him.

Thanks for posting this! I must have remembered wrong. I just remember him going on about how Chris wasn't right that week.. something was wrong, but Chris didn't tell him what. He even had lunch with him and why would he have lunch with him if there was a fight. I missed the part he admitted to that.

 

[Cool Cats]

Was evidence shown George was in truck at Walmart? Friday testimony on the box and most items in the trailers/trucks should have been reduced to the papers on custody and Walmart receipt. Nothing else meant anything.Jmo

Angie was in Walmart buying the shoes for George and Jake while they waited in the truck for her.

Angela was seen getting into the passenger side according to Scheiderer at the Bond Hearing.

It was revealed during the trial that the people in the truck were:

Angie, George, Jake and the 2 children.

More reason to believe Angie showed the shoes to Jake and George. Jake and George denied that Angie showed them the shoes. Mom is a liar basically.

 

[justtrish]

Earlier I posted that BW admitted to the altercation CRsr, he did not, he said "Didn't happen".

I ran out of edit time back there. Post #789

Aghh okay. I responded to your earlier post and just now arrived at this one. I thought he denied it. He went on about how they had lunch and something was just bothering his best friend, but he didn't tell him what. If they had a fight why would they be seen having lunch.. blah blah blah.

 

[Cool Cats]

I do think what we've seen from Tabatha shows George is no saint and that he allowed mommy to control things even after he was married. Her testimony also shows how much they fought for the kids involved. None of that is a crime, but when we then see George trying to say he didn't know about any of this, it is suspicious because it seems he was involved in everything else in this family and not distant from his family at all.

I think if Jake and Angela are believable, the only hope for George is if he takes the stand and is more believable.

All the evidence put together shows George knew what was going on in his family. Totality of evidence.

Can you imagine George taking the stand calling Jake a liar?

And has been mentioned, how Jake always blamed George for any trouble Jake caused?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Im not being argumentative, Raize, but from my experience, the Wagner's aren't the norm in this western most edge of Appalachia. I grew up in Scioto County. I dont know any family having generations living under one roof. Some own acres and live in different homes but not in the same house. Obviously, im just commenting on my experiences.

If AC can close the loop it wont matter what I think. I dont need to know but depending on where an individual lives in Pike County their experiences can vastly differ.

The Rs and Ws definitely lived in very rural ohio. It is a different style of living than those living along 23. Jmo

Then I would have to bow to your greater experience since I have never been to Ohio. I went though TN a couple of times on my way to VA, but that is it.

I was going off what I have seen people from the area say on here. Also on the fact that before Dana moved there were three generations living in the home that Frankie later lived in. Indeed there were three generations of family living in the new home. Dana, Hannah and SW and KR.

This is a common occurrence all over the country. Kids live with parents then have children of their own. Sometimes the kids get married and continue to live with parents after they have their own children because they cannot afford to move out on their own for various reasons, usually financial. Or they have older parents who need care so they move the parents in with them while also having their own children living with them, even teenaged children or older. In todays age this is really not seen as an enmeshed family. At times it is just a convenient arrangement. And in many of these cases finances get intermingled. Married kids who cannot afford their own place give parents money to help pay the bills.

Honestly I have seen this in families who are upper middle class who just do not want to put mom or dad in a nursing home and share responsibility for their care among themselves and their older children.

But if there is one thing I have learned about people living in Appalachia they are loyal to family and very proud of who they are.

The reasons above is why I think the jury might not see the W's as an enmeshed family.

I saw the notebook where Angie listed the bills from month to month. I didn't think that was evidence of being enmeshed. George, Jake and Billy were self employed as truck drivers. Many of the bills being paid on the lists could be used as deductions on taxes. Such as cell phones, utilities, ect. Also parents pay bills and their kids living with them pay them back.

Sometimes mom just gets stuck with the bookkeeping. Especially in the case of adult sons who do not have a wife/GF they can shove it off on. And yes I know that is a sexist remark and that many men pay their own bills but you have to admit it happens often that mom gets stuck with it.

Maybe others from the area around Pike County could weigh in on this since my knowledge is so limited. It would be great to hear from some of them if they think the jury will view three generations living in one house and mom paying bills for her adult children would be viewed as being an enmeshed family.

Also it's pretty well known on here that I am not that maternal. It's not that I don't love my son and grandsons, it's just that I love them from afar, when they are in their own house. lol

JMO

 

[Dudly]

<modsnip: quoted post removed>
We also do not know what GWIV’s own words may do to convict him. That is still to come. Appatently lots was said. AC said earlier that they had enough evidence to convict all four without JW and AW testimony…

 

[justtrish]

Angie was in Walmart buying the shoes for George and Jake while they waited in the truck for her.

Angela was seen getting into the passenger side according to Scheiderer at the Bond Hearing.

It was revealed during the trial that the people in the truck were:

Angie, George, Jake and the 2 children.

More reason to believe Angie showed the shoes to Jake and George. Jake and George denied that Angie showed them the shoes. Mom is a liar basically.

It's ridiculous to think she didn't show them the shoes if this was an innocent purchase. They don't think them she goes right back in to return them. Easy peasy. Makes not sense for them to be there, not go in, then she randomly buys shoes and takes them home before showing them and they decide they don't like them so she tosses them in the trash instead of returning. Just another small detail that just isn't adding up unless they were actually used in the murders and destroyed because it was evidence of their crimes.

 

[Dudly]

All the evidence put together shows George knew what was going on in his family. Totality of evidence.

Can you imagine George taking the stand calling Jake a liar?

And has been mentioned, how Jake always blamed George for any trouble Jake caused?

Also remember if GWIV makes JW out to be a liar, that may put the DP back in effect. That is a double edge sword for both sides…

 

[Dudly]

All the evidence put together shows George knew what was going on in his family. Totality of evidence.

Can you imagine George taking the stand calling Jake a liar?

And has been mentioned, how Jake always blamed George for any trouble Jake caused?

Also remember if GWIV makes JW out to be a liar, that may put the DP back in effect. That is a double edge sword for both sides…

 

[LMDlong]

Isn't the plea "deal", as far as Jake himself is considered a thing of the past? He pled guilty, was asked EVERY step of the way if he understood what he was doing and what it meant. He wasn't convicted under the law because of evidence shown, he confessed. Isn't there a big difference under the law? Is there a legal way back to innocent until proven guilty as you plead guilty? After being warned and asked repetitively if what you were confessing was of your own free will?

MOO I don’t think there is a way back on the defense side once a plea deal has been ruled on by the judge.
It would be interesting to know for sure.

 

[justtrish]

We als

We also do not know what GWIV’s own words may do to convict him. That is still to come. Appatently lots was said. AC said earlier that they had enough evidence to convict all four without JW and AW testimony…

I keep thinking back to the statement to the jury during opening from AC. She said that things might be presented in a way that doesn't make sense, but it will at the end. She said some witnesses will be called multiple times and they are trying to go in chronological order and some witnesses are there to introduce evidence anther witness will talk about later. I am going to trust that this will come together by the end and all the various witnesses will make sense when looking at the entire puzzle put together.

I think George's own words on recording will show he knew before, he was there, he helped hide things after.