OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #75

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  • #661
I read the available information on the IRS website about "viewing" tax returns. What I found was restrictions against the IRS allowing people or agencies to view tax returns via the IRS. I'm not sure why this would apply to a law enforcement official with a legal warrant encountering a tax return and noting it as such. For example, if LE has a warrant to collect certain papers and notes a tax return sitting on a table. Certainly it would not break federal law to encounter a tax return in the wild, so to speak, so long as there was a warrant. But I am not a CPA or a lawyer or a police officer. I just can't find any mention anywhere of LE officials coming across a tax return itself being illegal. It would of course, be illegal to disclose anything found therein.
Also Ms. Evesledge said under oath she examined every document, which included tax returns of George.

Didn't anyone wonder why Parker asked her that then started yanking out years of tax returns and asking her to identifying them, ending with him asking her to read the warning on the cover sheet of the accounting firm that prepared George's taxes?

Why do you think he jumped up and made a big long drawn out deal of that?

JMO
 
  • #662
That defense guy was trying to be shady PERIOD. If his intent was to somehow jam her up for saying she viewed all the documents in that tub and then to ask about tax returns. I am going on a limb here, but if you have a search warrant and are looking for receipts and you are shifting through a tote of documents, it's safe to say you saw all the papers yes, but I really doubt she was sitting there reading every line of all of it. I could see scanning it quickly noting it's a tax return, scanning the next document, house agreement, next receipts, next custody document, etc. So to say she saw them all yes because you are looking for specific items and would need to look at the papers to determine what they are. She didn't commit a crime by gathering evidence, but he wants to point out she said she looked at all the papers. Well word games at this point are ridiculous. Just because she scanned it briefly to identify it doesn't mean she sat down, read it, and did something illegal or had malice intent. Defense just trying to be a jerk.
Those returns were in an envelope addressed to George from an accounting firm and clearly labeled tax returns with the year the returns were for (Parker had her read that out loud, 2014, 2015, 2016 ect from each envelope). Then he told her to read the warning on the cover which she did, but not out loud. She just had a funny look on her face and AC's hands were shaking when she started labeling the other documents.

JMO
 
  • #663
I feel like AC and the prosecution is laying foundation for all the evidence they have, once this is done they will be able to move forward and show step by step how everyone including GW4 was involved. If they do not enter all of the evidence into trial first they risk getting parts of there case thrown out or open for appeal. Prosecution is dotting their i's and crossing their t's.
Also as boring as this part is they need to be sure the jury see's exactly how this crime unfolded and how all 4 W's are involved. GW4 did not have to pull the trigger but they need to show how deeply he was involved and all of this "boring, to much info" is being introduced for a reason. Time will tell
 
  • #664
Well they had to travel through Canada to get to Alaska. I've only been to Canada once, long ago, to Niagara Falls and we just had to show our, then filled out by pen, driver's licences to get in and out, back in the early 70's. I'm sure crossing the border changed drastically since 911. Does Canada require passports now?
Yes, So does Mexico.
 
  • #665
Yes, they do and did in 2016, probably.
We had to have one in 2009 to cross Canadian border, both going to AK and coming back.
 
  • #666
Also Ms. Evesledge said under oath she examined every document, which included tax returns of George.

Didn't anyone wonder why Parker asked her that then started yanking out years of tax returns and asking her to identifying them, ending with him asking her to read the warning on the cover sheet of the accounting firm that prepared George's taxes?

Why do you think he jumped up and made a big long drawn out deal of that?

JMO
Because attacking the witness is all they have.
 
  • #667
Did Angela really print out hundreds of pages of copies of conversations Tabitha and her mother had with people on Facebook? Wow, very creepy.
Yes, She's a phsyco. Or fancied herself a spy?

JMO
 
  • #668
Those returns were in an envelope addressed to George from an accounting firm and clearly labeled tax returns with the year the returns were for (Parker had her read that out loud, 2014, 2015, 2016 ect from each envelope). Then he told her to read the warning on the cover which she did, but not out loud. She just had a funny look on her face and AC's hands were shaking when she started labeling the other documents.

JMO
I thought his point with this exchange was to show that George filed is own taxes maybe to show one thing he did apart from his family. I notice he noted the separate bank account also. That is what I thought when he had her read the years out loud. Those were the years before the crime. Sorta like see he was separate.
 
  • #669
Also Ms. Evesledge said under oath she examined every document, which included tax returns of George.

Didn't anyone wonder why Parker asked her that then started yanking out years of tax returns and asking her to identifying them, ending with him asking her to read the warning on the cover sheet of the accounting firm that prepared George's taxes?

Why do you think he jumped up and made a big long drawn out deal of that?

JMO
Would that be the same as BCI scanning every piece of paper ?
 
  • #670
I feel really bad for all the people who looked though that one tub that had George's tax returns in it because whoever did, committed a federal crime. A federal felony.

AC asked MS. Evesledge (I think is the way you spell her name) of the BCI if she had examined every document in one particular plastic tub. Her reply was yes she had, and also that she had taken it back to their headquarters where more BCI agents looked though that plastic tub.

On cross Parker asked her did you look at every document in this tub? Once again she said yes. Then he started pulling out tax returns for I think three years of returns for George and two for George and Tabitha. Then he told her to read the privacy and confidentially warning from the cover sheet of the accounting firm.

We all have that law on our cover sheets to inform the taxpayer and warn anyone who might accidently get hold of someone else's tax return. It says it is a federal crime to view, without taxpayers permission, any tax return belonging to that taxpayer under penalty of federal law.

I have been a CPA and owned my own firm doing accounting and taxes for right at 50 years now. There is a very strict privacy and confidentiality law concerning taxpayers federal tax returns as most of you may have guessed by witnessing how hard it is for anyone, even the US Congress to get copies of the former POTUS tax returns. They have been fighting for years trying to get his tax returns, the AG of NY finally resorted to getting his NEW YORK STATE tax returns. I put that in capital letters so it would stand out they could only get his state tax returns.

There is a very good reason for that. The only people allowed to view a taxpayers return are

1. The taxpayer who's name is on that return.
2. The CPA or tax preparer or tax attorney who is licensed to defend you against the IRS or an EA who prepared that return for the taxpayer and who must sign that tax return and put a CPA license number, a CAF number or a license number issued by the IRS on that return called a PTIN number. If it is filed electronically by anyone other than the taxpayer (taxpayers can file their returns by themselves electronically on sites like TurboTax) then it must also have an ERO number in addition to the preparers signature.
3. The IRS who can view a limited transcript after they have established a legal basis for an audit of that tax return. Even then they must list out separately each tax year they intend to audit and notify you of said audit by U.S.P.S. mail.
4. The DOJ if the IRS suspects a criminal activity pertaining to filing a fraudulent tax return.
5. The Social Security Administration.

That's it folks. No one else can view your tax returns without your express permission for ANY reason. Not even the BCI in the murders of 8 people. You must sign a form 4506 to give a bank or finance/mortgage company permission to request your tax return for a loan. You can also sign a 2848 Power Of Attorney to allow a representative to handle your taxes if you are unable to do so.

The fine for a tax preparer releasing a tax return without permission is 1000.00 and 1 year in prison plus court costs PER return.

It is a FEDERAL crime to view a taxpayers return without their permission. In order for the BCI to view Georges tax returns they must first get a subpoena signed by a federal judge in a federal court.

No state agency such as the BCI can look through George's tax returns without his permission or a federal court subpoena signed by a federal judge. Not even the FBI, DEA, ATF, DHS, CIA, Congress, POTUS (well you get the drift) can view your tax return without your permission or a federal Subpoena. If they do so, they commit a federal crime, a felony prosecuted in a federal, not state, court.

So that is why MS. Evesledge had that funny look on her face when Parker asked her if she viewed every document in that tub and she answered yes under oath, in a court of law and then he started pulling out George's tax returns and asked her to read the warning on the cover sheet of the accounting firm. Ms. Evesledge committed a federal crime times however many years of returns she viewed. I noticed AC get very nervous then when she came back after cross and stuck some stickers on some papers her hands were shaking. I bet she viewed them also without George's permission. AC should have known better and BCI especially should have.

I also bet Parker or Nash is on the phone and following up with a letter to the IRS right now. lol.

As an aside the taxpayer can give their tax return to anyone they want to or even publish it in the newspaper. on social media or TV or pass it out to the entire city they live in or give it to LE. But LE looking at it without permission or a federal subpoena is a HUGE no-no.

JMO
I may be wrong, but could you please show where she states she read his tax information? I see she is reading to the defense attorney the information he is requesting, relating to the envelopes and names, but I did not hear where she stated she read his tax returns. I may be missing something, so hopefully you can point me in the right direction.
 
  • #671
Today's recap and this snippet-

Billy Wagner remains locked up at the Butler County Jail.

Officials with the Butler County Sheriff’s Office said his “behavior has been good” and he is not being held in any special custody or security.

He does not have any jobs at the facility and could presumably be keeping up on the latest TV reports of his son’s trial.

“Mr. Wagner is able to watch television,” Lt. Joe Fuller confirmed when we asked this week. “Inmates do not have access to computers or the internet.”

Billy Wagner is not testifying in this trial.

 
  • #672
THe trend I'm seeing, these defense lawyers love attacking women. I'm sure this doesn't play well with the jury. Say what you want, but people making up a jury are human, too. As we've seen with OJ and Anthony, a jury can act on emotions. IMO
 
  • #673
I thought his point with this exchange was to show that George filed is own taxes maybe to show one thing he did apart from his family. I notice he noted the separate bank account also. That is what I thought when he had her read the years out loud. Those were the years before the crime. Sorta like see he was separate.
You can go back and re watch it. It's near the end of the day. Watch that funny look on her face when he handed her the envelope told her to read out loud the tax year the return was for and then to read the warning on the cover sheet which she did. She did not read it out loud but I know what that warning was she read because we include it on our cover sheets. I noticed AC's hands shaking on redirect.

A taxpayer can furnish anyone they want to with their own tax return and often do. A lot of politicians publish theirs or give them to MSM like CNN with SSN's ect blacked out. It is not illegal to hand out your tax return to everyone and their mama.

But only under certain circumstances can anyone look at, view, or examine the return without your permission.

I get a lot of subpoenas every year from divorce attorneys asking for a spouses return. I throw them in the trash. An attorney, even if they are a civil attorney should know better than to ask. Most spouses provide them to the other spouses attorney voluntarily since it determines child support, if any. But I cannot. So I just chunk them and forget them.

JMO
 
  • #674
New Boston is a small community butting up to the east of Portsmouth. They do have a fairly large wal mart. Larger than the one in Waverly.
 
  • #675
They can make hay all they want. I don't believe they'll get a mistrial over tax records. If that's all they got then 4 will end up where he belongs.
 
  • #676
Would that be the same as BCI scanning every piece of paper ?
Yeah. I bet there is a lot of deleting of documents going on at the BCI tonight. They should have known better.

AC did make a few good points today though and I am relieved George is getting more airtime.
JMO
 
  • #677
I may be wrong, but could you please show where she states she read his tax information? I see she is reading to the defense attorney the information he is requesting, relating to the envelopes and names, but I did not hear where she stated she read his tax returns. I may be missing something, so hopefully you can point me in the right direction.
Near the end of the day when he asked her if she examined every document in that tub. She said yes. Not trying to split hairs with you here, but my ears always perk up at the mention of tax returns so I paid close attention. Plus I know the law. When she saw those big white envelopes addressed to George from an accounting firm with tax years stamped on them she should have just threw them back in the tub without pulling the papers out and looking at them before she went through the proper channels.

Of course no federal judge is going to give them a subpoena to look at tax returns unless the crime involves something to do with federal income taxes, like tax fraud or tax evasion. So she wasn't going to get to look at them anyway unless George told her she could.

What do you want to bet that Parker and Nash have been sitting on this information for months waiting to see if AC or BCI would notice? Parker looked like he could barely contain his self when AC finished direct without clarifying that BCI, AC herself or Ms. Eveslege did not examine George's tax returns. He practically ran to the witness chair. lol

JMO
 
  • #678
They can make hay all they want. I don't believe they'll get a mistrial over tax records. If that's all they got then 4 will end up where he belongs.
I never mentioned a mistrial. I just stated what I saw and why I knew Parker did what he did.

I have been here from day one and have always believed all 4 of the W's were guilty. I still fervently believe Angie was at the crime scenes that night doing her part no matter what her and Jake say. I think they cooked that Angie stayed home to watch the kids that night story up while they were in AK. I think she was right there in the thick of it with those women's hunting boots on micromanaging every little move to make sure they did exactly what she told them to do. We all know how controlling she is, so I find it very hard to believe she just patiently waited at home for them to return. Not freakin' likely. I am still praying for a guilty conviction for George. But I am a call it like I see it person. If AC is not getting the job done in my opinion, I am going to call it.

JMO
 
  • #679
I was thinking about the family sitting round the table taking a vote on whatever issue. Did the outcome have to be unanimous, or was it majority rules? What if it was a tie? Did Angela have the deciding vote? What if, (not saying it happened) but what if George voted NO?
 
  • #680
I never mentioned a mistrial. I just stated what I saw and why I knew Parker did what he did.

I have been here from day one and have always believed all 4 of the W's were guilty. I still fervently believe Angie was at the crime scenes that night doing her part no matter what her and Jake say. I think they cooked that Angie stayed home to watch the kids that night story up while they were in AK. I think she was right there in the thick of it with those women's hunting boots on micromanaging every little move to make sure they did exactly what she told them to do. We all know how controlling she is, so I find it very hard to believe she just patiently waited at home for them to return. Not freakin' likely. I am still praying for a guilty conviction for George. But I am a call it like I see it person. If AC is not getting the job done in my opinion, I am going to call it.

JMO
I agree with you 100%. I was referring to the defense and them making a fuss over tax records when the trial is about 8 murdered family members.

Im on board about AW. I think it has been established she is too darn contolling not to have been there. Jmo
 
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