OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[altojack]

Has Agent White already told us that he had matched the gun using those .22 casings. I have it in mind he said they had to hold the gun together and fired it to test the bullet/casing and it matched casings used at crime scenes and some found at Peterson.

I may have had a very vivid dream one night lol.

 

[Betty P]

all of this is redundant, he has previously testified the casings from scene 2 and 3 and the casings from Peterson road were fired from the same gun and it is a Walther, so instead of this constant repetition all he has to say is I examined all the weapons from the Flying W that could fire .22 caliber and none were a match to the evidence collected from scene 2 and 3 and Peterson Road, I have previously testified to the Walther being the gun

Pretty sure they're trying to demonstrate George's involvement in conspiracy to cover up the Wagners involvement in the crimes.

 

[Chelly]

all of this is redundant, he has previously testified the casings from scene 2 and 3 and the casings from Peterson road were fired from the same gun and it is a Walther, so instead of this constant repetition all he has to say is I examined all the weapons from the Flying W that could fire .22 caliber and none were a match to the evidence collected from scene 2 and 3 and Peterson Road, I have previously testified to the Walther being the gun

Amazing! Words fail!

 

[Betty P]

Amazing! Words fail!

From my earlier post, I think I figured it out

• He's tying the cartridge cases/ballistics from Frankie & Dana's murder scenes to the cartridge cases found on Peterson Rd.
• Then he's showing these cartridges used in the murders did not match the other guns found.
• Therefore, the cartridges match one of the guns dumped in the pond.
• All of those guns found in homes, plus the guns in parts found in the pond are on the family inventory list of guns.
• Therefore, they owned all those guns before the murders, the ones they used for the murders were put in the pond.
• George lied about the inventory list, which contained the murder weapons
• Conspiracy

He's trying to prove that George lied about the list of family inventory of guns because that list contained the weapons they took to the murder, one of which was proven used in the murder, and were later all dumped in the pond. George was aware of the guns on that list that were used in the murders and lied about the list. That means he was part of the conspiracy.

Prosecution has to go through all of this thoroughly so the defense doesn't cast doubt on the evidence by saying they have no proof that this that or the other gun was used in the murders or was on the list that George lied about because he was trying to cover up their involvement in the murders.

Remember also, the use of the silencers both ties them to the crimes, carries separate charges because they are illegal and are also part of the evidence used in the crimes that George helped build and test.

So far, this goes towards proving charges for

Specification 2 of each of the 8 Aggravated Murder Charges Count 1 through 8

Count 9 - Conspiracy - George lied about the list of guns, which included those used in the murders

Not sure if Obstruction of Justice would apply

 

[altojack]

all of this is redundant, he has previously testified the casings from scene 2 and 3 and the casings from Peterson road were fired from the same gun and it is a Walther, so instead of this constant repetition all he has to say is I examined all the weapons from the Flying W that could fire .22 caliber and none were a match to the evidence collected from scene 2 and 3 and Peterson Road, I have previously testified to the Walther being the gun

and there's my answer,I must have dreamt the rest.

 

[ColMustard]

Has Agent White already told us that he had matched the gun using those .22 casings. I have it in mind he said they had to hold the gun together and fired it to test the bullet/casing and it matched casings used at crime scenes and some found at Peterson.

I may have had a very vivid dream one night lol.

They definitely said they were able to clamp one of the destroyed guns together and actually test fired it.

 

[Chelly]

Pretty sure they're trying to demonstrate George's involvement in conspiracy to cover up the Wagners involvement in the crimes.

How does owning an unusually large cache of weapons not used in any crime establish conspiracy? Lots of posters here have posted they own lots of weapons.

 

[dgfred]

We would be the first ones asking if the prosecution only brought up the murder weapons that were found.
How do we know they were theirs?
How do we know GW is not telling the truth?
Where is the proof they owned these guns?
ETC

 

[dgfred]

How does owning an unusually large cache of weapons not used in any crime establish conspiracy? Lots of posters here have posted they own lots of weapons.

It doesn't. But having a bunch of guns before a murder with some missing after.

 

[altojack]

They definitely said they were able to clamp one of the destroyed guns together and actually test fired it.

Thank you. I was beginning to think I'd made it up. Haven't got my notes here with me.

 

[Chelly]

From my earlier post, I think I figured it out


He's trying to prove that George lied about the list of family inventory of guns because that list contained the weapons they took to the murder, one of which was proven used in the murder, and were later all dumped in the pond. George was aware of the guns on that list that were used in the murders and lied about the list. That means he was part of the conspiracy.

Prosecution has to go through all of this thoroughly so the defense doesn't cast doubt on the evidence by saying they have no proof that this that or the other gun was used in the murders or was on the list that George lied about because he was trying to cover up their involvement in the murders.

Remember also, the use of the silencers both ties them to the crimes, carries separate charges because they are illegal and are also part of the evidence used in the crimes that George helped build and test.

OK. The prosecution believes it needs all these guns, whether they were murder weapons or not, in order to to convict George of conspiracy to murder. Thanks for your patience. @Betty P

 

[sunshineray]

Probably an unpopular post this is but the trailers should never have been moved to another location to "preserve evidence." IMO.

They couldn't be protected any other way. It was not viable financially to have guards at every site for possibly years (as it turns out years before being viewed by jurors). They would have been tampered with or, IMO, burned to the ground. The evidentiary value to preserve them is for the defense as much as prosecution.

 

[ColMustard]

Adjourned for the day, jurors will report a half hour later tomorrow, 9:30 am, while the judge attends other matters. Most likely the ruling on media in the courtroom.

 

[Chelly]

It doesn't. But having a bunch of guns before a murder with some missing after.

Yeah, like having 30 tuxedos in the closet indicates you go to a lot of formal events.

 

[Betty P]

OK. The prosecution believes it needs all these guns, whether they were murder weapons or not, in order to to convict George of conspiracy to murder. Thanks for your patience. @Betty P

That they owned all of those guns, put them on a list of guns they owned, used some of them in the murders, disposed of them, then lied about all of that.

 

[rescuemom]

From my earlier post, I think I figured it out


He's trying to prove that George lied about the list of family inventory of guns because that list contained the weapons they took to the murder, one of which was proven used in the murder, and were later all dumped in the pond. George was aware of the guns on that list that were used in the murders and lied about the list. That means he was part of the conspiracy.

Prosecution has to go through all of this thoroughly so the defense doesn't cast doubt on the evidence by saying they have no proof that this that or the other gun was used in the murders or was on the list that George lied about because he was trying to cover up their involvement in the murders.

Remember also, the use of the silencers both ties them to the crimes, carries separate charges because they are illegal and are also part of the evidence used in the crimes that George helped build and test.

So far, this goes towards proving charges for

Specification 2 of each of the 8 Aggravated Murder Charges Count 1 through 8

Count 9 - Conspiracy - George lied about the list of guns, which included those used in the murders

Not sure if Obstruction of Justice would apply

Genius Betty P

 

[Chelly]

That they owned all of those guns, put them on a list of guns they owned, used some of them in the murders, disposed of them, then lied about all of that.

Got it. You have the patience of a saint.

 

[justtrish]

From my earlier post, I think I figured it out


He's trying to prove that George lied about the list of family inventory of guns because that list contained the weapons they took to the murder, one of which was proven used in the murder, and were later all dumped in the pond. George was aware of the guns on that list that were used in the murders and lied about the list. That means he was part of the conspiracy.

Prosecution has to go through all of this thoroughly so the defense doesn't cast doubt on the evidence by saying they have no proof that this that or the other gun was used in the murders or was on the list that George lied about because he was trying to cover up their involvement in the murders.

Remember also, the use of the silencers both ties them to the crimes, carries separate charges because they are illegal and are also part of the evidence used in the crimes that George helped build and test.

So far, this goes towards proving charges for

Specification 2 of each of the 8 Aggravated Murder Charges Count 1 through 8

Count 9 - Conspiracy - George lied about the list of guns, which included those used in the murders

Not sure if Obstruction of Justice would apply

I agree and it's so redundant, but they have to do this or the defense will pounce on something. They are showing just how thorough they were. Even testing guns that they knew already didn't have a connection, but still examining them, firing them, ruling them out fully. The defense can't say it was rushed or they didn't examine every gun, etc. Your points remind us there are 22 charges and they aren't just trying to prove George was part of the murder, that counts for 8 charges I believe. There are 14 others and even if it's not guilty on those 8 murder charges, he could spend the rest of his life in prison on the others I believe. It's all important.

Instead of all this evidence and testimony annoying us because we just want them to get to the grandmas, Jake and Angela and the wire tap conversations, I want to take the time to think on just how much work this was. How many people were involved and how many hours they dedicated to this to get it right.

The Wagner's thought they were so smart. They didn't leave DNA, they didn't leave fingerprints, they tried to get all the shell casings with brass catchers, used silencers, stalked these victims to catch them at just the right time when they'd be home, likely sleeping, and could sneak in over the cover of night and assassinate them. They removed security cameras that would capture them and attempted to use phone jammers so they couldn't call for help. It's evil! They were not so smart as they thought they were. They did make the job harder for investigators, but the investigators were patient, they let them get caught in lies, they waited until they felt they were over that threshold and could take these murders off the street.

 

[dgfred]

You have 30 tux for formals/ a person is killed at a formal you attended/ you currently have 29 tux in your closet. Hmmmm

 

[rsd1200]

I wonder if JW does not testify to the states satisfaction and the DP comes back into play how that works, as GW jury is not DP qualified so he will have to have a new trial with a jury DP qualified, JW will have to have a trial to assertain his guilt then a penalty phase, as his whole plea agreement will be thrown out so his guilty pleas will also go

how then do they proceed with AW if she fulfills her part of plea deal, her 30 years must then stand, so only JW BW and GW would have to have capital trials

Wait, GW's jury is not DP qualified? Is his legal team? GW4?