OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[Skully67]

How Much Does a Bale of Hay Weigh? – Hayforks.com

Round and square hay bale weights, sizes, and types. How plant species, moisture content, and density affect hay bale weight.

hayforks.com

 

[pittsburghgirl]

It really is like a big puzzle. I know many pick at each piece and say this might not be right, this can't be, this doesn't fit or that piece Jake might be lying about, etc. I see it as a large puzzle. I see BCI thoroughly investigating and trying their hardest to get these 4 to talk or to slip up. They did not railroad this family. They didn't plant evidence, make false accusations, or rush to arrest. They waited, they took their time, they used wire taps, they attempted to get phone records, they followed them, they scoured financials, they followed every lead related to the W's and those not connected to them and it all kept coming back to them.

These are smart agents, talented agents, agents with specialized training, who have dealt with many crimes, crime scenes and technical evidence. They had a family who agreed to not talk on the phone and reminded each other not to talk on the phone, they ran water when they talked in the house or went in the laundry room and turned on the dryer for background noise. They didn't talk in their vehicles and when they did they threw off conversations. I mean innocent people do not do that. There is no need to do that. So while they were adding up some evidence, they were also realizing what was missing. You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

There are so many pieces that add up for us to see the bigger picture so taking out a few doesn't change the picture at all. Maybe the tattoo isn't connected, maybe there was no connection to boondock saints, maybe dying the hair was coincidence, maybe George's warning text was just because dad doesn't like BCI, maybe George is just paranoid because everyone else is, maybe George has no idea things are bought with his card, maybe he had no idea silencers were being built, maybe he bought a replacement gun for daddy less than a week after the murders, but had no idea it's because Jake ruined the old one trying to make a silencer. Maybe he had no idea mom was in Walmart buying murder shoes while he waited in the car, maybe he dug a post hole to bury murder weapons, but had no idea what it was really for. Maybe he helped build the duck house thingy and had no idea murders weapons were in it, maybe he never once overheard conversations about the plot, maybe he didn't really vote on murdering the Wagners.. on and on.. There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family.. I mean what are the odds? So I see the picture even with missing pieces. It's a conspiracy and we will never know the truth. We do know George didn't talk. He didn't come forward and assist, say he was threatened, he was worried, he suspected his family, etc. He didn't do that because he was involved.

And it defies imagination that, even if there was no kitchen table discussion about murdering the Rhoden, Jake wouldn't have told his brother that he was going to murder the whole Rhoden family, short of the babies. And common sense-wise, it defies imagination that Billy wouldn't bring the so-called smarter and stronger brother, given how wary he was of Chris, Sr., Kenneth, and Frankie. For all the Wagners, knew, half the Rhoden family might have been up at Chris's.

But mostly, the whole family would have more incentive to say George wasn't at the murder scene than to say he was. Why would Jake lie to convict George? Why would ANGIE lie to convict George? That would make no sense.

 

[justtrish]

I don't think efficient hauling was the goal.

Here is the opening AC gave talking about the hay. I also found Angenette LEvy's tweets about it and she tweeted that Jake said hay or straw would go on top to make it look like the truck was full. No mention of a number. I am still looking for that.

AC opening:

Jake will tell you that they modified the truck. They built a false bed where the high hooks were kind of there's a there's a level plane and then there's some eye hooks kind of on that. On top of that, he put the two by fours up and then put plywood and then put hay on top of that. So it would look like the bed was full of hay.

And it defies imagination that, even if there was no kitchen table discussion about murdering the Rhoden, Jake wouldn't have told his brother that he was going to murder the whole Rhoden family, short of the babies. And common sense-wise, it defies imagination that Billy wouldn't bring the so-called smarter and stronger brother, given how wary he was of Chris, Sr., Kenneth, and Frankie. For all the Wagners, knew, half the Rhoden family might have been up at Chris's.

But mostly, the whole family would have more incentive to say George wasn't at the murder scene than to say he was. Why would Jake lie to convict George? Why would ANGIE lie to convict George? That would make no sense.

What makes sense is George is along to ensure nothing goes wrong. He's a lookout with his SKS rifle that is good for concealed shooting from afar. I don't think the intent was ever for him to be inside up close and personal like Jake was.. it was Jake's "problem" so Jake had to bare the brunt of the duties. Now weather Jake is minimizing and "not recalling" now because he wants to paint himself as the big man and his brother as having a smaller role to somehow justify it in his mind that he's testifying against him in court. I think that is possible. I don't really think it matters in the big picture though because we aren't just taking Jake and Angela's word for what George did.. remove their testimony and I still see a guilty man that went along with his families plan.

 

[Myland]

And it defies imagination that, even if there was no kitchen table discussion about murdering the Rhoden, Jake wouldn't have told his brother that he was going to murder the whole Rhoden family, short of the babies. And common sense-wise, it defies imagination that Billy wouldn't bring the so-called smarter and stronger brother, given how wary he was of Chris, Sr., Kenneth, and Frankie. For all the Wagners, knew, half the Rhoden family might have been up at Chris's.

But mostly, the whole family would have more incentive to say George wasn't at the murder scene than to say he was. Why would Jake lie to convict George? Why would ANGIE lie to convict George? That would make no sense.

Jmo I don’t about your first part. But Jake and Angela both had huge incentives to lie. They wanted to save their own rear ends. After all we have heard about them two, do we really believe there is another life they value more than their own. They had to put George there or no deal. He had been in jail three years. No way state would accept a deal without George.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It really is like a big puzzle. I know many pick at each piece and say this might not be right, this can't be, this doesn't fit or that piece Jake might be lying about, etc. I see it as a large puzzle. I see BCI thoroughly investigating and trying their hardest to get these 4 to talk or to slip up. They did not railroad this family. They didn't plant evidence, make false accusations, or rush to arrest. They waited, they took their time, they used wire taps, they attempted to get phone records, they followed them, they scoured financials, they followed every lead related to the W's and those not connected to them and it all kept coming back to them.

These are smart agents, talented agents, agents with specialized training, who have dealt with many crimes, crime scenes and technical evidence. They had a family who agreed to not talk on the phone and reminded each other not to talk on the phone, they ran water when they talked in the house or went in the laundry room and turned on the dryer for background noise. They didn't talk in their vehicles and when they did they threw off conversations. I mean innocent people do not do that. There is no need to do that. So while they were adding up some evidence, they were also realizing what was missing. You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

There are so many pieces that add up for us to see the bigger picture so taking out a few doesn't change the picture at all. Maybe the tattoo isn't connected, maybe there was no connection to boondock saints, maybe dying the hair was coincidence, maybe George's warning text was just because dad doesn't like BCI, maybe George is just paranoid because everyone else is, maybe George has no idea things are bought with his card, maybe he had no idea silencers were being built, maybe he bought a replacement gun for daddy less than a week after the murders, but had no idea it's because Jake ruined the old one trying to make a silencer. Maybe he had no idea mom was in Walmart buying murder shoes while he waited in the car, maybe he dug a post hole to bury murder weapons, but had no idea what it was really for. Maybe he helped build the duck house thingy and had no idea murders weapons were in it, maybe he never once overheard conversations about the plot, maybe he didn't really vote on murdering the Wagners.. on and on.. There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family.. I mean what are the odds? So I see the picture even with missing pieces. It's a conspiracy and we will never know the truth. We do know George didn't talk. He didn't come forward and assist, say he was threatened, he was worried, he suspected his family, etc. He didn't do that because he was involved.

There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family..

BBM
In testimony it has been said he stayed out all night, drinking, with his uncle, and prostitutes.

Before the murders (Chris N testimony) after the murders (beth testimony.)

Not hard to miss a lot of things if you stay out all night and come home drunk.

And according to Chris N and beth his behavior and how he interacted with his family did not change one whit after the murders. In fact he fought with billy, came to blows and choking, fought with angel mommy, who told him he was going to hell for his philandering ways, listened to jake tell him no telling how many times a day he was going to hell for his lifestyle, both BEFORE and AFTER the murders. TWO different witnesses to that. Same story.

Not seeing this 180 turn here.

JMO

JMO

 

[blackbeary]

I would have liked to see the hay stacked on the plywood to see how it looked. And maybe JW and GW4 rode in the front of the truck until almost to CRsr.

This! My husband said that straw weighs a lot less than hay. Could they have used little bales of straw? It was an illusion meant for CR 1, they didn't mind using his truck, or both truck's otherwise.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Ask a truck driver. Very popular. 8 ball, last ball sank so good luck. 4 aces, winning hand in poker so good luck. Skull an acknowledgement they have a dangerous job in which one mistake is fatal.

Translation. Truckers hope for good luck out on the road but acknowledges their mortality because they know one mistake gets them killed.

Guy on deadliest catch had one like it too.

I put a link in my post.

40 8 Ball Tattoo Designs for Men

Discover shred gamesmanship and the cornerstone of any billiards match with the top 40 best 8 ball tattoo designs for men. Explore cool pool ball ink ideas.

nextluxury.com

JMO

Sorry Raisnback
But you can argue all you want to, but I will always believe GW4 was there the night of the murders and remember what Jake said, he said that he shot Chris Sr in the arm and that he heard Billy shoot 2 more times and then Billy ran out in a state of saying I just killed my best friend then Jake got Chris Se key and went to the hot house SO who shot Chris Sr 7 more times and or Gary 2 more of the 4 he was shot???? JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo if they recreate it needs recreated to true. Not half cause that doesn’t show true story. I believe that is why they left the hay off because they didn’t want to show true. State had to make look the way they wanted. Misleading. Jmo

The state has been doing a half azzed job since opening so it doesn't surprise me they did a half azzed job recreating the false bottom.

JMo

 

[justtrish]

There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family..

BBM
In testimony it has been said he stayed out all night, drinking, with his uncle, and prostitutes.

Before the murders (Chris N testimony) after the murders (beth testimony.)

Not hard to miss a lot of things if you stay out all night and come home drunk.

And according to Chris N and beth his behavior and how he interacted with his family did not change one whit after the murders. In fact he fought with billy, came to blows and choking, fought with angel mommy, who told him he was going to hell for his philandering ways, listened to jake tell him no telling how many times a day he was going to hell for his lifestyle, both BEFORE and AFTER the murders. TWO different witnesses to that. Same story.

Not seeing this 180 turn here.

JMO

JMO

They also said they voted on things, had family discussions and George and mommy had time at night to talk about their days while she rubbed his back. My comment about 180 meant suddenly George would just have to not be there to plan and discuss things, not talk to his family or be in on voting for this very important matter, not suspect anything or hear it being talked about at all. George couldn't have been gone every single night from Jan to April. We hear him in the car when Jake picks up Sophia, we see him in the car at Walmart when shoes were bought. When those witnesses testified he was gone at night sometimes, they didn't say votes were happening without him. I just don't see him being so intertwined before, during, and after and NOT knowing or being part of it. That is what I mean.. that would be a 180 from what we know and how we know this family operated.

 

[ColMustard]

Then that means Jake lied like a dog because he said under oath they stacked 18 bales of hay on top of the false bottom. Parker mentioned it friday when he said i am not a farmer but i have on reliable source a bale of hay weighs between 50 to 60 lbs.

I don't remember who's tweet it was in about what parker said but i read it. maybe someone else knows.
jmo

Maybe Parker said 8 or 10 bales, could sound like 18 in that courtroom. Tweets aren't so accurate.

You only need one layer to cover the sheet of wood.

3/4" OSB is pretty stout too, I don't even want to drag it, much less carry it.. Now if it was 7/16" I would have some doubt.

The whole point of the exercise was to show the space under the floor, not how they stacked hay.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Jmo I don’t about your first part. But Jake and Angela both had huge incentives to lie. They wanted to save their own rear ends. After all we have heard about them two, do we really believe there is another life they value more than their own. They had to put George there or no deal. He had been in jail three years. No way state would accept a deal without George.

All they have to do to get a plea deal is tell the truth. If George wasn't involved, they just needed to say so--if that testimony doesn't contradict physical evidence or other testimony. What evidence do any of us have that the state would suborn perjury--because that's what it is if the prosecutors insist Jake or Angie lie about George to get a deal? As it is, Jake has said George didn't do any shooting. Why wouldn't he tell a better story than that?

 

[Myland]

Jmo but the Jan thing and Billy came up with plan has been bothering me too. The prosecutors stated they started planning in Jan. But in the first of Feb Billy was still talking about getting things on H for court. It was either late Feb or first of March he sent the text I have a plan. So if Billy came up with plan after that text why did state say the planning started in Jan? Was Billy late to his own master plan?

 

[Myland]

All they have to do to get a plea deal is tell the truth. If George wasn't involved, they just needed to say so--if that testimony doesn't contradict physical evidence or other testimony. What evidence do any of us have that the state would suborn perjury--because that's what it is if the prosecutors insist Jake or Angie lie about George to get a deal? As it is, Jake has said George didn't do any shooting. Why wouldn't he tell a better story than that?

Jmo I disagree the state couldn’t allow George not there. Not after having George in jail for three years. There was no other evidence they had to have Jake’s testimony to get George. Do you think Jake and Angela are honest people all of a sudden? I don’t buy he saw the light for a minute. No the state doesn’t say tell me a lie, they say we need all four for a deal.

 

[justtrish]

Jmo but the Jan thing and Billy came up with plan has been bothering me too. The prosecutors stated they started planning in Jan. But in the first of Feb Billy was still talking about getting things on H for court. It was either late Feb or first of March he sent the text I have a plan. So if Billy came up with plan after that text why did state say the planning started in Jan? Was Billy late to his own master plan?

They had several ideas though and the planning for protecting Sophia started in Jan. That included killing Hannah and making it look like murder-suicide, turning in Chris Sr for drugs, etc. I'd have to see those texts again, but Billy texted Angela I have another idea sometime after Jan.. maybe it was mid/late Feb and I think that text was the beginning of the Chris Sr, Kenneth, Hannah, and Frankie needed to go and then it went from there.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How Much Does a Bale of Hay Weigh? – Hayforks.com

Round and square hay bale weights, sizes, and types. How plant species, moisture content, and density affect hay bale weight.

hayforks.com

Wasn't it raining that night?

How Moisture Content Affects Hay Bale Weight​

• Fresh baled hay: 18% to 20% moisture by weight.
• Stabilized hay: 8% to 9% moisture by weight.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How many bales did JW say were stacked up.

18

 

[Skully67]

18

18 seems excessive. I could see maybe 8.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Sorry Raisnback
But you can argue all you want to, but I will always believe GW4 was there the night of the murders and remember what Jake said, he said that he shot Chris Sr in the arm and that he heard Billy shoot 2 more times and then Billy ran out in a state of saying I just killed my best friend then Jake got Chris Se key and went to the hot house SO who shot Chris Sr 7 more times and or Gary 2 more of the 4 he was shot???? JMO

And I will always believe you are a very sweet person @Johnny B Bad .

Raize

 

[Skully67]

Wasn't it raining that night?

How Moisture Content Affects Hay Bale Weight​

• Fresh baled hay: 18% to 20% moisture by weight.
• Stabilized hay: 8% to 9% moisture by weight.

Historical weather data for Pike county ohio | Visual Crossing

View historical weather data in a dashboard for any worldwide location. Weather history includes temperature, rain, wind & map showing nearby weather stations.

www.visualcrossing.com

 

[Helechawagirl]

It really is like a big puzzle. I know many pick at each piece and say this might not be right, this can't be, this doesn't fit or that piece Jake might be lying about, etc. I see it as a large puzzle. I see BCI thoroughly investigating and trying their hardest to get these 4 to talk or to slip up. They did not railroad this family. They didn't plant evidence, make false accusations, or rush to arrest. They waited, they took their time, they used wire taps, they attempted to get phone records, they followed them, they scoured financials, they followed every lead related to the W's and those not connected to them and it all kept coming back to them.

These are smart agents, talented agents, agents with specialized training, who have dealt with many crimes, crime scenes and technical evidence. They had a family who agreed to not talk on the phone and reminded each other not to talk on the phone, they ran water when they talked in the house or went in the laundry room and turned on the dryer for background noise. They didn't talk in their vehicles and when they did they threw off conversations. I mean innocent people do not do that. There is no need to do that. So while they were adding up some evidence, they were also realizing what was missing. You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

There are so many pieces that add up for us to see the bigger picture so taking out a few doesn't change the picture at all. Maybe the tattoo isn't connected, maybe there was no connection to boondock saints, maybe dying the hair was coincidence, maybe George's warning text was just because dad doesn't like BCI, maybe George is just paranoid because everyone else is, maybe George has no idea things are bought with his card, maybe he had no idea silencers were being built, maybe he bought a replacement gun for daddy less than a week after the murders, but had no idea it's because Jake ruined the old one trying to make a silencer. Maybe he had no idea mom was in Walmart buying murder shoes while he waited in the car, maybe he dug a post hole to bury murder weapons, but had no idea what it was really for. Maybe he helped build the duck house thingy and had no idea murders weapons were in it, maybe he never once overheard conversations about the plot, maybe he didn't really vote on murdering the Wagners.. on and on.. There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family.. I mean what are the odds? So I see the picture even with missing pieces. It's a conspiracy and we will never know the truth. We do know George didn't talk. He didn't come forward and assist, say he was threatened, he was worried, he suspected his family, etc. He didn't do that because he was involved.

Can you imagine having your own mother testify against you? This family is dysfunctional on so many levels. I think trying George first is a mistake on the part of his defense team. Jury is gonna wanna punish someone. MOO