OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[Tillicum]

Any idea or speculation? The only connection I'm thinking of is one person who got impatient with "trolling" and would create a new thread to refocus the discussion. I've forgotten most of it. I used to go there every few weeks and just skim through to see if there was anything solid.

I do remember a few people who were mentioned dozens of times as the "real killers" were actually not around at all. There were strange, persistent rumors about an individual seen walking down Left Fork Rd that night or early morning. Not true, but it spooked me and did again when AC showed the videos of the Wags driving around that night. Some of that may have been AW spreading rumors that pointed to other people.

I kind of remember occasional talk of searches BCI was doing in various locations, not reported in the news media. Many, many false reports of the Wagners returning to town and being arrested.

Do you remember when someone claimed that shell casings were found when the storage trailers were searched?

 

[rsd1200]

Don't forget those 18 bales of hay stacked on top of that contraption told in testimony which would have bowed that plywood into a V shape. 60 lbs x 18 = 1080 lbs on top of plywood. They would have been crushed and lucky if they were alive after leaving peterson rd at 9 and arriving to CRs at 11. 2 hours with at least (depending on the type hay because some hay bales weigh up to 100 lbs each) 1080 lbs (that is one half ton of hay) sitting on top of them with the tailgate closed. Laughable.

JMO

I was just looking at that. No way they put 18 bales of hay on there. They'd have to stack eight bales from the back of the cab, to the end of the bed. If the did that across, that would take some of the burden off the plywood. A 12 x 36, 3/4 " piece of plywood will support around 50# before bending. One bale of hay, say a light bale, 36" weighing around 40-50#. Stacked two across and five down, would be ten, then four on top. The sides will relieve some of the pressure on the center of the plywood and they may have had a support in the middle, I couldn't tell. That's still a lot of weight. Between 720 -900# There's no perfect or standard configuration. Just what gets the most hay in the truck the fastest. I truly don't think they had hay on that truck that night. It just seems really awkward and unnecessary, straggles of hay left behind, stuck to their clothing and shoes, but, then again, it is the W4s.

Common sense tells you GW4 had input into his ink. Professionals will not disclose client info as someone already stated. IMO

It is afternoon break time

Tattoo artists can testify regarding their client's tattoos.

Hernandez trial: Tattoo artist testifies about bullets, 'God Forgives'

 

[ralyla]

I am glad the judge allowed The Boondock Saints' evidence in. I have never seen either movie and thus was not understanding the correlation between the tattoos and certain evidence related to the movie. IMO there are likely jurors in the same boat who have never watched. It was very compelling evidence, and also made me sick to think they took pleasure in their crimes enough to memorialize them in tattoos.

MOO. JMO.

 

[Myland]

Don't forget those 18 bales of hay stacked on top of that contraption told in testimony which would have bowed that plywood into a V shape. 60 lbs x 18 = 1080 lbs on top of plywood. They would have been crushed and lucky if they were alive after leaving peterson rd at 9 and arriving to CRs at 11. 2 hours with at least (depending on the type hay because some hay bales weigh up to 100 lbs each) 1080 lbs (that is one half ton of hay) sitting on top of them with the tailgate closed. Laughable.

JMO

Jmo I agree where is the hay. Why didn’t they show center support if there was one. Jake probably didn’t describe center support. Where was the tie downs there had to be a lot of tie down with that being too heavy with hay on the curves on these roads. That board holding all that weight hitting bump after bump on how bad these roads were and are.

 

[rsd1200]

Schiederer mentioned they were monitoring post made by AW on the now closed chat site. He also siad he was posting on the site to get a reaction from AW. Id like to know who their usernames were on the site. Jmo

Oh, I would too. That's where I started but it was so hard to follow and so many different threads. I never signed up, only read. I have a thought or two but the names are vague to me now. There were a couple folks on there that really stirred the pot. I think I still have those poems. Been meaning to go back and see, and read them again.

 

[Betty P]

Do you remember when someone claimed that shell casings were found when the storage trailers were searched?

That does sound familiar. There were a lot of rumors about those searches. I seem to recall some posts about things found in the barn, too. I need to go back and read some of the threads here from around that time.

 

[justtrish]

So, yes it seems the Wagners tricked both pastors in Alaska. But keep in mind this should reflect more on the Wagners then on the pastors. I believe by this time the Wagners were master manipulators. Experts at controlling information people had on them. Keep in mind, prior to the murders they honed these skills with various schemes such as insurance fraud and robberies and got away with those crimes. Even governor Mike Dewine during one of his news conferences stated "oh, and the lies they told". Keep in mind several people have testified that it was only when jake and angela plead guilty that they realized they were duped. Not when they were arrested.....when they plead guilty.

Bingo. I hope the jury is able to see the writing on the walls here. Just because Jake says George didn't shoot and Angela says she didn't ask for details and doesn't know anything, does not mean he isn't just as involved as the rest of them. Angela just took sleeping meds and went to bed (YEAH RIGHT!? Your children might get killed and you had a long day so you will take some meds and sleep?) I hope we do get to hear the messages on the wire taps. I think every time we've heard George on tape or seen his messages it become more clear. I think it's easy to see George as the likeable one, the one not like the others, the one who maybe they all decided would be easiest to make look innocent if they were caught? What we have gotten to hear from George shows he is EXACTLY like the others. Warning his daddy about BCI being there, putting terror into Bulvine over bad people taking him away, chatting up a storm with mommy about the house she was putting in his name in Alaska (without any protests to that either), so proud of himself that he eluded BCI and recognized this car and wow how smart he is to figured that out.. ha jokes on him. Also oh how proud he was that he wasn't pulled aside at the border crossing back into Canada. He was just talking up a storm about how they were nothing like the people at the border when they crossed into the US. Remember George was smart and Jake was impulsive. Imagine George being so silent, just playing along, not really as involved and then there is impulsive Jake and chatty Billy.. rambling on. Then dear old mom who messed up the question about the shoes, forgot about the Walmart receipt, had no answer for the shell casings found at Peterson Road. Then we see panic when he got that text from BCI agenet Scheiderer about the guns and the silencer. Family emergency. What was the emergency George?

 

[ColMustard]

Any idea or speculation? The only connection I'm thinking of is one person who got impatient with "trolling" and would create a new thread to refocus the discussion. I've forgotten most of it. I used to go there every few weeks and just skim through to see if there was anything solid.

I do remember a few people who were mentioned dozens of times as the "real killers" were actually not around at all. There were strange, persistent rumors about an individual seen walking down Left Fork Rd that night or early morning. Not true, but it spooked me and did again when AC showed the videos of the Wags driving around that night. Some of that may have been AW spreading rumors that pointed to other people.

I kind of remember occasional talk of searches BCI was doing in various locations, not reported in the news media. Many, many false reports of the Wagners returning to town and being arrested.

Most of my suspicions probably shouldn't be shared openly here.

I do remember one in particular that reported helicopters that were non-existent. So that could've been Scheiderer that shot that prank down.

 

[rsd1200]

Didn't the Walmart video show AW getting into a truck with the shoes. It looked like GW4 was driving. Did she testify that GW was in the truck that day? Pretty sure she did.

The BCI folks caught her too. IIRC they asked her, why not just ask them, they were in the vehicle with you. She them stutters and stammers and says that it was just too much to deal with that day with all of them in the car (loosely quoting). My take? They're grown azz boys, fathers at that. Grab your kids, walk in, and try on and pick out your own dang shoes. They didn't. She went in and they stayed in the lot. The most heavily monitored locations, outside of possibly, Fort Knox and Area 51. AW was a Walmartian. Just couldn't kick the habit.

 

[Myland]

Jmo Jake’s story of truck isn’t added up or the state’s video’s of trucks are not the trucks they drove. Something is off. His whole thing of where they were when shooting and all is a little fishy. I think they showed Jake what they thought they had and he took a little truth and a little lies created a story to save his life and save his mother’s life. He carried lock picks in his wallet and was very good at it he said, but used a knife and broke the tip. And if the knife he used was in bucket the top wasn’t broke. Jmo

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Schiederer mentioned they were monitoring post made by AW on the now closed chat site. He also siad he was posting on the site to get a reaction from AW. Id like to know who their usernames were on the site. Jmo

oh, I wish I would have taken screen shots of some of the chats from that site. It certainly was an unregulated chat website and no one was enforcing any rules. I am so glad websleuths keeps this site clean and enforces certain rules. I truly am glad for that. The other site had a significant amount of rude comments on it.

Today's testimony from Agent Schiederer says BCI knew Angela Wagner was monitoring that site. I also think she was posting on it. At the time I was hoping BCI was monitoring that site, from today's testimony they were.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo I agree where is the hay. Why didn’t they show center support if there was one. Jake probably didn’t describe center support. Where was the tie downs there had to be a lot of tie down with that being too heavy with hay on the curves on these roads. That board holding all that weight hitting bump after bump on how bad these roads were and are.

A lot of folks don't strap them if they aren't going far but we usually do b/c, as you say, the curves can be a test. Also, it would block the driver's vision, I would think, in backing up, seeing if a vehicle was rolling up behind them. I really think they built it, hid it under the hay, drove it, dismantled the plywood (which looked rather flimsy), and G3 drove it to his brother's home. Sweet uncle that he is.

 

[Pru2U]

Do you remember when someone claimed that shell casings were found when the storage trailers were searched?

I don't remember that but I do remember shoe (or maybe boot) print discussions. Also a specific gun (the 1911) said to be found or seen in a photo at Peterson Rd house. I bet those were Shiederer. On the opposite end of spectrum was endless redirection any time the Wagner's were mentioned.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Without JW and Mommy Dearest, they have Gw4 sitting in the Wally Parking lot, being angry on a line tap, and a bloody footprint that we've seen none of the testing the three went for. Did it match G4? If so, AC would be doing a victory lap, if not, the defense should be showing it off all over. Inconclusive? You're right, they truly have little on G4, but at this point, I think they'll vote him guilty. The family enmeshment is so strong. If he even suspected, he shoulda just took B and left home. He's the only one who seems fairly intelligent according to testimony. He'd been fine. The problem is, believing that he did absolutely nothing to aid JW. For instance, JW says, btw, could you pick me up some ammo when you go to Wally? GW4, I will but no more. He's in it. All the way.

there is no evidence presented that george bought any ammo or any supplies of any kind. none. there is no evidence he was at the crime scene. none. there is no evidence he knew about it afterward. none. until MT. Ohio has a law that if you know someone committed a crime and that someone is family then if you do not tell on them if it is family you did not commit a crime by not reporting the crime your family member committed. so george did not commit any crime by not telling on his family when he found out. none.

As far as the shoeprint. The defense hasn't even began to present evidence so who knows. Maybe when the defense takes over we will learn what size shoe george wore and whether the testing matched him. If it was not a match you can bet the defense is bringing that in.

I just hope there is one juror who is a thinker.

Because canepa set up that proffer deal. she knew the only way to george was through jake and the only way to get jake to sacrifice george was though his angel mommy so she told him we have no real evidence against george, so give me george and i give angel mommy 30 years with a chance for time off for good behavior, working, ect. that 30 years could turn into 15 very easy since angel mommy wasn't guilty of killing anyone, just conspiracy, and if prison gets too overcrowded out she goes.

Look over my typing and spelling please. fatigue does crazy things to your arms and hands.

JMO

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

I don't remember that but I do remember shoe (or maybe boot) print discussions. Also a specific gun (the 1911) said to be found or seen in a photo at Peterson Rd house. I bet those were Shiederer. On the opposite end of spectrum was endless redirection any time the Wagner's were mentioned.

yes. I remember any time the wagners were mentioned...endless misdirection.

 

[justtrish]

I am glad the judge allowed The Boondock Saints' evidence in. I have never seen either movie and thus was not understanding the correlation between the tattoos and certain evidence related to the movie. IMO there are likely jurors in the same boat who have never watched. It was very compelling evidence, and also made me sick to think they took pleasure in their crimes enough to memorialize them in tattoos.

MOO. JMO.

It really is like a big puzzle. I know many pick at each piece and say this might not be right, this can't be, this doesn't fit or that piece Jake might be lying about, etc. I see it as a large puzzle. I see BCI thoroughly investigating and trying their hardest to get these 4 to talk or to slip up. They did not railroad this family. They didn't plant evidence, make false accusations, or rush to arrest. They waited, they took their time, they used wire taps, they attempted to get phone records, they followed them, they scoured financials, they followed every lead related to the W's and those not connected to them and it all kept coming back to them.

These are smart agents, talented agents, agents with specialized training, who have dealt with many crimes, crime scenes and technical evidence. They had a family who agreed to not talk on the phone and reminded each other not to talk on the phone, they ran water when they talked in the house or went in the laundry room and turned on the dryer for background noise. They didn't talk in their vehicles and when they did they threw off conversations. I mean innocent people do not do that. There is no need to do that. So while they were adding up some evidence, they were also realizing what was missing. You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

There are so many pieces that add up for us to see the bigger picture so taking out a few doesn't change the picture at all. Maybe the tattoo isn't connected, maybe there was no connection to boondock saints, maybe dying the hair was coincidence, maybe George's warning text was just because dad doesn't like BCI, maybe George is just paranoid because everyone else is, maybe George has no idea things are bought with his card, maybe he had no idea silencers were being built, maybe he bought a replacement gun for daddy less than a week after the murders, but had no idea it's because Jake ruined the old one trying to make a silencer. Maybe he had no idea mom was in Walmart buying murder shoes while he waited in the car, maybe he dug a post hole to bury murder weapons, but had no idea what it was really for. Maybe he helped build the duck house thingy and had no idea murders weapons were in it, maybe he never once overheard conversations about the plot, maybe he didn't really vote on murdering the Wagners.. on and on.. There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family.. I mean what are the odds? So I see the picture even with missing pieces. It's a conspiracy and we will never know the truth. We do know George didn't talk. He didn't come forward and assist, say he was threatened, he was worried, he suspected his family, etc. He didn't do that because he was involved.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

JMO Pretty sure they were reading here. I wonder if they posted here, too?

count on it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The Prosecution has presented evidence that he did plan and participate. Its up to the jury to decide if its enough. But the evidence is there.

Would you be so kind as to list it for me? TIA

 

[Pru2U]

You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

No "WTF was that about"? moment from the supposedly blissfully ignorant & innocent George Washington Wagner IV? The same GWIV who ranted and raved about Tabi being at border? The same one who told his son BCI wanted to kill him? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

At the very minimum, GW4 was an accessory after the fact. AT MINIMUM.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

In the camera angle from the passenger side, you can see GW4's big shoulder and tattoo, sitting in the front passenger seat.

She said she didn't remember, then named off the kids, then just said we were all in the truck.

Sure it wasn't jakes big shoulder and tattoo?