OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Niner]

@arielilane - hoping you will be back for after lunch tweets!

 

[Chelly]

After this defense witness wraps up, will Prosecution return with wiretap evidence?

 

[Cool Cats]

I would like to hear the one between Jake and Angie after he confessed and gave a proffer.

They couldn't call each other. That day of Jake's guilty plea in court, even though Angela was still ordered not to make calls, it is in discovery that she made a call that day, plus again one or 2 more a few days later. People cannot call inmates into their jails, the inmate has to call out to people on the outside.

Angie calling out that day of Jake's confession - despite no phone privileges, we don't know if she got special permission, I doubt it. But it shows me how shook up she was.

When her attorneys asked for her phone privileges back they said she wanted to be able to call her family. If she called Fred or Robin I bet she doesn't now. I suspect they put alot of blame on her, she nagged Billy to do something and riled them all up with false SA accusations. She bought murder kit items and hacked Facebook private messages etc....

Everyone knows she could have stopped these murders. Went in a different direction.

 

[FonescaFan]

I've been MIA here for a bit. When did it change that the bloody scene pictures were back to being allowed for broadcast?

Wondering the same thing. I hadn’t seen this photo before and now I wish I hadn’t. I feel for the families and the jury, who have had to view much worse evidence.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

These are both significant points.
First, George knows that "we," meaning the family, are in a "mess." That almost certainly refers to the investigation for the murders of 8 people. That's a mess, all right. But why would GEORGE be in a "mess" if he didn't participate?

In the matter of "losing" his son, it doesn't seem to occur to George that he is fact has caused this same terrible thing to happen to Tabitha, the mother of his son. This son B doesn't even know he has a mother, as we have heard testimony that George will have to tell him that Angela is not his mother.

That is majorly effed up. Imagine--this boy has a living mother who wants time with him and George and Angela not only keep her away, they have convinced the boy that Angela is his mother. (So we learn why Tabitha gets no time with B; how would they explain who the strange woman is that expects B to know she's "mommy." )

George of course would not "lose" his son by sharing 50/50 custody with Tabitha. He would have time with his son and opportunities to bond, to teach values, etc. The problem is that in their family, there can be no mother but Angela. George going along with cutting Tabitha out of their son's life is the indication that he was all in on this highly dysfunctional view of child custody.

It's worth noting that Jake already had de facto 50/50 custody. Sophia was actually with him ad his family on the very night he murdered 5 of them and participated in the murder of 3 others (according to his story). BUT CUSTODY AS NORMAL PEOPLE SEE IT, EVEN 50/50, WAS NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH BECAUSE ANGELA WANTED THE MOTHERS TO BE OUT OF THE PICTURE.

Hanna was prescient when she wrote that they would have to kill her to do what they did to Tabitha. She's not talking about custody as in sharing Sophia, which as a normal person she is already doing. She is talking about LOSING HER SON. So George has it backwards. The Wagners don't "take things too far." They literally do not see that other people have emotions or rights or needs.

George made the statement that he did not think he would be arrested. why? Because he had no part in it. But he was coming for a custody court date, if his family were arrested then that could have been used against him. Fred stated that people would not even take her checks and her business was ruined because of her family's arrests.

Also among all that yelling Angie told him they did not have any money, not like they used to have. Maybe because Billy couldn't carry on his drug trafficking and stealing? I think financial stress was a huge factor in all that fighting with each other also.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I just see this building up over the years and the more crimes they committed, the more cult like they got, the more controlling Angela got to keep that family unit the way it always was. I'd say maybe there is actual mental illness too of some sort (beyond just anxiety/depression).

There's little doubt in my mind that Angela has some sort of Cluster B personality disorder or combination thereof. (I'm not a psychologist so MOO). The whole family lacks empathy. This is not a normal family that has lost its way. I've spent a lot of hours looking at the psych literature to try to find a similar case of cult-like behavior, a highly insular bio family, screwed up ideas about sexuality, and mass murder. These aren't normal people who just were worried about sexual abuse. The situations of the 3 young females shows without question the intent to dominate, the hyper-controlling behavior, the lack of appropriate sexual boundaries acted out on one side as "protecting the children" and on the other side as essentially grooming young girls to be "wives" so they can produce offspring for you.

I'm determined to get some psychologists to look at the case and give an opinion.

 

[dgfred]

There was very little blood on the porch... so not as much to make prints in.

Also in that one inside pic you can see towels and such. Maybe they swiped away some prints and others were wiped out by the dragging of bodies. Not many prints then if they watched where they stepped.

That is the first pic I have seen looking toward CR's kitchen.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The Wolf! GW4's FB post.

Edit: Clark unlocked the slide on the Beretta and it looked like Priest wondered if he loaded it. Ohio can be scary.

editeded: The court is enthralled, going way past lunch time.

I've been on the road and haven't seen it. Must viewing for tonight.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The defense never called this witness or had him tour the scenes. They didn't even tell him the particulars of each scene. It definitely sounds like the defense asked for just a small preliminary opinion from a handful of experts and went with the guy who said yeah one guy COULD have done these murders. This witness was ill-informed by the client and therefore his testimony is ill-informed. AJMO

This is the "get a hired gun to take a shot at one aspect of the case" defense.

 

[justtrish]

Jmo I just can’t understand how a clear print in blood in house but no print on porch. I would think at least a light print on porch. Or why the print there but no other anywhere in the house.

When I imagine dragging a body (and I wish I didn't have to imagine dragging a body) I think it's easy to step in a pool of blood then as I walk backwards pulling the body, the body itself is messing up any prints I am making as I walk backwards and pull the body right though the path I just walked. I would think the initial print was just right after someone stepped in the pool blood and then possibly like I said other prints were messed up by either the carpet being pulled or the body being drug along the same path the prints would have been. Then by the time the person is walking back through the hall they are more careful and avoiding stepping in more blood. I also recall some testimony maybe from Jake or Angela or both that attempts were made to mess up prints and George wanted to go back to make sure and Billy said no we gotta go (paraphrashed)

 

[twall]

I've been MIA here for a bit. When did it change that the bloody scene pictures were back to being allowed for broadcast?

October 11

In a unanimous vote announced before 11 a.m., the justices of the Fourth District Court of Appeals ordered Judge Randy Deering of Pike County Court of Common Pleas to allow news media and the public to film exhibits in the trial of George Wagner IV.

Guardian wins lawsuit against Pike Co. Judge in Wagner trial

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio — In a ruling issued Tuesday morning, the local appellant court issued a finding in favor of the Guardian and other media outlets, striking down archaic rules set by the judge ove…

sciotovalleyguardian.com

 

[pittsburghgirl]

George made the statement that he did not think he would be arrested. why? Because he had no part in it.

JMO

That would be one reason, although an unlikely one in my view. He might be the type of person who just thinks he will get away with stuff. In this case, he might have though Jake would take the fall, and maybe Billy but he and Angela would walk. I don't think we can read his mind on this one. Lots of guilty people think they will walk away unscathed, and many do. Somebody in my hometown kidnapped a girl 30+ years ago and hit her with an ax. He's walking around free if he's still alive.

 

[justtrish]

With all the blood at scene #1, there should have been more prints. Maybe they took off the shoes, then back on once outside? But why no blood on the floorboards of either truck. Again..removed the shoes?

I believe the testimony from the niece who received the truck said that the floor mats were missing. If I recall also Jake might have testified that they burned those??

Then I recall hearing Billy was detailing that truck good when they were all out at FWF one day with bleach.

When blood dries, if you don't know it's blood, it very much looks like dirt. I'd think whatever blood might have been left on shoes after walking through grass and/or driveways would be minimal and not like full footprints and in a car whatever might have transferred to the pedals or any part not on a floor mat would not lead anyone to believe it was blood. I'd say getting hurt in a vehicle would definitely leave blood in a way that would scream this is blood, but just some from shoes wouldn't likely indicate to someone not knowing a crime was committed with that truck that it was blood.

 

[justtrish]

That would be one reason, although an unlikely one in my view. He might be the type of person who just thinks he will get away with stuff. In this case, he might have though Jake would take the fall, and maybe Billy but he and Angela would walk. I don't think we can read his mind on this one. Lots of guilty people think they will walk away unscathed, and many do. Somebody in my hometown kidnapped a girl 30+ years ago and hit her with an ax. He's walking around free if he's still alive.

Or because it was Jake's girlfriends family, Jake's hand with a gun, and BCI seemed to be trying to press George to come talk. Maybe he got the feeling BCI didn't think he was involved and they were thinking it was all Jake so he was feeling like he wasn't under the same suspicion as Jake. Then other times he's saying if we all 4 are arrested and what punishment he would take and if they are "ratted out".. that phrase leads me to believe he is guilty because innocent people don't get ratted out, they get wrongly accused or something gets pinned on them, but ratted out means your dirty acts are exposed by someone.

 

[justtrish]

I've been MIA here for a bit. When did it change that the bloody scene pictures were back to being allowed for broadcast?

I believe that court ruling did that. They can't show the bodies still, but the scenes and photos without bodies I believe was the ruling that the people have the right to see the exhibits and things presented unless it shows bodies.

 

[sunshineray]

Or because it was Jake's girlfriends family, Jake's hand with a gun, and BCI seemed to be trying to press George to come talk. Maybe he got the feeling BCI didn't think he was involved and they were thinking it was all Jake so he was feeling like he wasn't under the same suspicion as Jake. Then other times he's saying if we all 4 are arrested and what punishment he would take and if they are "ratted out".. that phrase leads me to believe he is guilty because innocent people don't get ratted out, they get wrongly accused or something gets pinned on them, but ratted out means your dirty acts are exposed by someone.

Yeah the ones, like GWIV said in his mother on phone call, (paraphrasing) the ones who cave under questioning. It seems to me he didn't even consider that the BCI would have any physical evidence to charge him. I'm surprised BCI didn't get any of GWIV's DNA from the truck he drove over to KR's. He must have been breathing heavy, just sitting there waiting, time to start thinking and having feelings of what just occured on Union Hill. I wonder if BCI even swabbed CRSR's driver's seat area. Am I remembering correctly it was GWIV that drive CRSR's truck or was that BW?

 

[Cool Cats]

Or because it was Jake's girlfriends family, Jake's hand with a gun, and BCI seemed to be trying to press George to come talk. Maybe he got the feeling BCI didn't think he was involved and they were thinking it was all Jake so he was feeling like he wasn't under the same suspicion as Jake. Then other times he's saying if we all 4 are arrested and what punishment he would take and if they are "ratted out".. that phrase leads me to believe he is guilty because innocent people don't get ratted out, they get wrongly accused or something gets pinned on them, but ratted out means your dirty acts are exposed by someone.

Also, in Discovery I find only one time it says BCI interviewed George. A day all 4 were interviewed in Montana.

The others were interviewed more often. I think Jake and Angela the most.

 

[altojack]

Defence are desperate. It's all over George!

Please no more wire taps, my ears are still ringing from all the screaming and yelling. OMG. AW looking at her you would never think she could growl like a biotch defending her pups.

 

[Cool Cats]

Good morning, everyone! Is there a reason the Defense is presenting their case in between recordings, instead of waiting till the prosecution rests? I'm so confused. TIA.

Canepa said she would let the defense start presenting their Case even if the prosecution wasn't done with their recordings. So for some reason they all agreed to do it this way.

 

[Betty P]

Court's back on. AC says they'll be playing recordings. Will get through rest of tapes.

Jury will come back on Tuesday for defense to resume its case. They're doing something else on Monday, w/o jury.