OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Myland]

Ahhh, but there is a lot we DO know.

*We DO know George had an attorney AND a judge already handling the custody of his son.
*We DO know it was Angela - NOT George's attorney - who provided George the paperwork giving her sole custody in the event of George's death.
*We DO know the natural mother's input was excluded.
*We DO know George signed it.
*And we DO know it was dated the same date Jake signed his.

Edit: We also know, in order for the document to be legally notarized, the notary must actually witness George's signature.

Jmo I completely agree with all that. That all only tells part of the story.

 

[Dudly]

I think Tabbi was established in a new life with a husband and two other children. She may have hesitated to file for custody because she had her hands full already or her husband objected to supporting and raising a son that was not his own.

At any rate it looks like she was very reluctant to file for custody of BW and only did so when pushed by BCI.

JMO

Maybe she was reluctant because she feared for her life. Why do you say she was pushed by BCI to file for custody? Maybe she finally felt safe to do it…

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'll admit I did not watch all of GW4's hearings. Was there never a hearing where the judge wanted to have an idea of what the evidence was against GW4 only?? I guess I'm wrong in thinking he was part of the 4 who were suspected of murdering the Rs and HG so there wasn't a need to separate the evidence. Why now??

Because George is the only one on trial. There is not three defendants sitting at that defense table. There is ONE, George. So maybe there is now a need for the judge to have the prosecution present to him solid evidence against George only.

Many times Deering looked completely confused by testimony. Many times he interrupted testimony to have the prosecutor clarify what was being presented. Many times he called them all to the bench for a sidebar to clarify testimony.

Maybe he is so confused now that he wants to see only the actual real solid evidence against George in front of him.

Who knows?

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

True but wouldn't they at least mention partial prints? Like, a clear print was made here and heads in this direction as it fades.

The one print was nearly perfect, with a fair amount of blood. On the next step there's nothing left on the shoe? I know it doesn't work like that on my shoes.

I think there's testimony from at least one witness that no other shoe prints were found. At Dana's maybe and by one of the LEOs, not the shoe expert?

I know they mentioned ruling out shoe prints of those who found the victims as well as first responders. Also, didn't Jake testify to using a rug to smear footprints? There was something about a rug...

 

[rescuemom]

The king of shoe experts can't put him in those shoes either. Only two shoe prints were found. Each a different size.

Didn't JW explain the shoes?? Any other prints could have been lost when the bodies were drug to the bedroom or when a rug was used to wipe away the blood. We don't have a video to show everyone.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How could she not give them the whole picture of the W4?

I know the jury has to be thinking "Yo what happened with that burned DVR? What's up with that and why have we never heard how that tied into the murders? And all those guns that were not the murder weapons? What about those thousands of casings we had to sit through that were not even the right caliber? what happened with those tests they did on George's feet and do the shoes match the tests? How about all those phone calls where George was not even in them? and all those screaming matches with Jake where he never admitted anything or confessed to anything?"

Do you think all this was necessary to enter into evidence then drop and never give an explanation or mention again? That is Canepa's weakness. She did not follow through.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

Just like the other three, George Wagner IV was indicted on a total of 22 charges, including:

Eight counts of aggravated murder
Conspiracy to commit aggravated murder
Four counts of aggravated burglary
Three counts of tampering with evidence
One count each of forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire, oral or electronic communications
Obstructing justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

Those were the original charges. Were any dropped in pre-trial?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What IF??? What if BW decided to talk and tell his story?? What if BW can fill in all the holes in this case?? What if he says both JW and AW have lied trough their teeth?? What if he tells who GW killed? Then what?? What could he know and what could he prove?? What would it take and would he be believed?

It might surprise us all.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Pure overkill!!! Just like the movies they watched over and over.

Ahh did you not see where the defense shredded the BCI agent on those movies to the point the judge called a halt and instructed the jury that movies are made with actors, the plots of movies are the imagination of screen writers and producers and there is no evidence that those movies relate in any way to these murders of 8 people?

That is one more thing Canepa dropped and never followed through on.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Maybe she was reluctant because she feared for her life. Why do you say she was pushed by BCI to file for custody? Maybe she finally felt safe to do it…

Because it was in the testimony. When the defense crossed. She admitted she only filed for custody after BCI told her she needed to.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Just like the other three, George Wagner IV was indicted on a total of 22 charges, including:

Eight counts of aggravated murder
Conspiracy to commit aggravated murder
Four counts of aggravated burglary
Three counts of tampering with evidence
One count each of forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire, oral or electronic communications
Obstructing justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

Those were the original charges. Were any dropped in pre-trial?

No.

 

[rescuemom]

I know the jury has to be thinking "Yo what happened with that burned DVR? What's up with that and why have we never heard how that tied into the murders? And all those guns that were not the murder weapons? What about those thousands of casings we had to sit through that were not even the right caliber? what happened with those tests they did on George's feet and do the shoes match the tests? How about all those phone calls where George was not even in them? and all those screaming matches with Jake where he never admitted anything or confessed to anything?"

Do you think all this was necessary to enter into evidence then drop and never give an explanation or mention again? That is Canepa's weakness. She did not follow through.

JMO

IMO, no but if I were on the jury, that would not matter when instead I see and hear the lack of any rational reason why anyone else other than the W4 played God on Apr 22, 2016 and decided to assassinate 8 innocent people in their homes and in their beds, leaving 3 babies and toddlers to fend for themselves, just because they thought they needed to be murdered.

It would not matter if it was proven to me that they researched/stalked the victims and their lifestyles, that they purchased a vehicle to use specifically for one purpose, for one night, that they owned firearms like those used in the murders and had proof of attempts to modify those firearms and that casings were found on their property that matched the projectiles removed from the victims bodies, 32 of them. I would not be able to wrap my head around who would be so evil to the point of insanity to have committed these murders. It would not matter if instead I as a rational human being then learned of the W4's lifestyle of family dysfunction, their criminal background and the lack of remorse, empathy or accountability of the W4 towards just about anything and anyone outside of the 4 of them.

Her lack of follow through on certain items may be addressed in her closing, or not but I as a rational human being would have seen and heard enough.

 

[rescuemom]

Ahh did you not see where the defense shredded the BCI agent on those movies to the point the judge called a halt and instructed the jury that movies are made with actors, the plots of movies are the imagination of screen writers and producers and there is no evidence that those movies relate in any way to these murders of 8 people?

That is one more thing Canepa dropped and never followed through on.

JMO

I think AC knew she might be up against the 13th juror here.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

More big evidence: The state has shown an established pattern of family conspiracy to obtain and retain custody of the two minors. George signed the forged custody papers bypassing the natural mother, giving Angela full custody in event of his death; dated the exact same date as Jake signed the forged custody paper bypassing the natural mother and giving Angela custody in event of his death. Both natural mothers were living on the date those papers were signed. That forged paperwork is indeed solid evidence pointing out George was involved in that conspiracy. On Wednesday, we heard in George’s own words how that particular conspiracy was ongoing as the whole family was “laying low” until June 7 in order to claim a defense of child abandonment by Tabi.

This is solid evidence the whole family was all in on whatever it took to obtain and retain custody of those babies. Isn’t that the definition of conspiracy?

Yes it does. He is such a law abiding citizen that he just happened to sign his name on forged documents. The same exact day as his Brother and Mother signed their name to forged documents just before these murders. He knew they were forged documents as they were back dated. I 100% believe he was in on the conspiracy prior to the murders and this is just one of the pieces of evidence that points to that. He was present the night of the murders and he assisted in the cover up.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ahh did you not see where the defense shredded the BCI agent on those movies to the point the judge called a halt and instructed the jury that movies are made with actors, the plots of movies are the imagination of screen writers and producers and there is no evidence that those movies relate in any way to these murders of 8 people?

That is one more thing Canepa dropped and never followed through on.

JMO

Didn't Jake say on the stand he watched a Boondock Saint's movie clip to psych himself up for the murders and the judge let that testimony stay in for the jury to consider?

Then again, this is George's trial so it doesn't matter what Jake watched. I guess what only would matter is if George himself said he psyched himself up on the movie. Or if Jake testified that George watched it with him but I don't think Jake said that.

I hate that your right, that it seems like 3 people are on trial sometimes, instead of just George.

I would like to be clear why you think the jury, well some of the jury, won't believe Angela and Jake's testimony? You said they lied to throw him under the bus but why would they do that? Why go into detail about his guilt if he was left out of it?

Do you really think the prosecution pressured them into implicating George? If Angie and Jake said George wasn't involved and the prosecution said "you have to involve him to get a plea deal", that would be illegal.

The only reason to say George was involved is because he was involved.

 

[Myland]

Jmo all the prosecutors had to say to if Jake said George was not involved is we don’t believe you and if you want to continue negotiating this plea deal then you have to tell us the whole truth. Jake being the story teller he is and believing he is the best person to figure this out all he had to do was add a few details in order to get them to believe him, whether they are true or not. Notice he even went back this past summer to add more to his story, oh sorry confession about Billy shooting Frankie. Jmo yes I definitely believe if he told a story without George in they said we don’t believe you. They didn’t say tell us a lie they would have said don’t believe you. And what happens when you tell a liar you don’t believe them? They adjust their story. Jmo there was too much unaccounted for time in Jake’s story. Even with what he gave he left many things he did out I believe. Jmo

 

[arielilane]

Maybe she was reluctant because she feared for her life. Why do you say she was pushed by BCI to file for custody? Maybe she finally felt safe to do it…

IMO TC feared for her life and most likely is still in fear. Only a battered woman would understand TC and her actions. I’m glad she made it out alive and is with her son. Having your child with you is the greatest gift of all.

 

[arielilane]

I know they have about 10 witnesses - here's the list from my notes:

Some of defense witnesses: Samantha Staley, earlier testified that her father worked for Wagner IV’s grandmother, Fredericka Wagner. Jeff Tackett, earlier testified about the criminal lifestyle of Wagner IV’s father. Bernard Brown allowed the Wagners to store trucks & trailers filled with their possessions at his Peebles car business from mid-2017 to mid-2018, the year the family spent in Alaska. Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls have both been convicted on marijuana charges. Also subpoenaed were Shawn Walls, with the same address as Vance Walls & Nathan Walls. The defense also sent subpoenas to West Chester police Capt. Seth Hagaman, who questioned Wagner IV in the Rhoden case in 2017 when employed by the Bureau of Criminal Investigation & Clinton Canter, a former corrections deputy in the Ross County Jail in Chillicothe where Wagner IV was held from his arrest in November 2018 until late 2021 or early 2022.

Not sure the defense has much here. Will have to wait and see...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Didn't Jake say on the stand he watched a Boondock Saint's movie clip to psych himself up for the murders and the judge let that testimony stay in for the jury to consider?

Then again, this is George's trial so it doesn't matter what Jake watched. I guess what only would matter is if George himself said he psyched himself up on the movie. Or if Jake testified that George watched it with him but I don't think Jake said that.

I hate that your right, that it seems like 3 people are on trial sometimes, instead of just George.

I would like to be clear why you think the jury, well some of the jury, won't believe Angela and Jake's testimony? You said they lied to throw him under the bus but why would they do that? Why go into detail about his guilt if he was left out of it?

Do you really think the prosecution pressured them into implicating George? If Angie and Jake said George wasn't involved and the prosecution said "you have to involve him to get a plea deal", that would be illegal.

The only reason to say George was involved is because he was involved.

I hate that your right
LMAO

I don't know where you live @Cool Cats but from being on here many years with various people stating they are from Pike County or surrounding areas, I have seen a very distinct aversion to LE, DA's, Judges and court in general. Maybe because the people in the area have been to court where the DA twists their words, or the judge rules against them. Or had a relative or friend that was done that way. Pike County is who the jury is made up of. That jury looks at George and they see someone who is from the area. Many of them may have the same lifestyle, hunting, fishing, riding ATV's, drinking, carousing around. Good ole boys. Then they look at the lack of evidence against him and think this is a DP case, we have to send one of our own to death. Can they do it on the lack of solid evidence that has been presented? I don't know. I know I could not. I would want more proof than the prosecution has presented.

I would like to be clear why you think the jury, well some of the jury, won't believe Angela and Jake's testimony?

Because they sat there and watched Jake laugh, smirk and smile all through his testimony. I think they would be thinking this is all a joke to him. He can't stop laughing because he is lying. He is smirking because he thinks we are stupid and will just believe anything he says.

Then you have evidence that proves both Jake and Angie lied on the stand. So much of the evidence does not match up to what little we know they testified to. That is only a small portion that was published in tweets from reporters. Just think about how much their entire testimony does not match the evidence.

that would be illegal.

It is not illegal.

Jake went to Canepa, not the other way around. She did not persuade or force him to come to her. She did not bribe him to come to her. He did that of his own free will. She tells him okay, tell us your story. When he gave the first story, which the defense has, he said George was not in the planning, did not participate, and did not cover up. Canepa says no deal, I know George was there, so if you want a plea deal then give me the real story where George was there. If you do that I will throw in a plea deal for your mother of 30 years. And take the DP off the table. That is not illegal for her to do that. After all if she doesn't buy his story then it is her right as prosecutor to say no deal.

So Jake tells a different story. This time George was there but did not shoot anyone. That is the proffer Canepa has.

Plus Canepa said during one of the motions that they got several proffers from Jake before they settled on one. She even said that the one they eventually settled on had many inconstancies with the evidence BCI had.

Go back and listen to the openings where Canepa says George was there but Parker says Jake will testify that George did not plan, participate or even know until later about Jake killing 8 people. Vast difference there and Jake ended up testifying to Canepa's proffer not the one the defense had. So read between the lines.

Why do you think there is two vastly different stories? One for the prosecution and one for the defense.

Then you have that pre trial hearing in Canepa's own words where she said Jake told several different stories and they had to keep making him go over his story until they got one that was halfway consistent with the evidence.

As far as Angie. Jake told her or Rita or granny or whoever if she wanted that 30 year deal, she had to sacrifice George and throw him under the bus. So Angie, being a fan of herself, saved her own azz and sacrificed her son, George.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Day 1 AW testimony


Angela Wagner took the stand next, to testify against her son as stipulated in her plea deal. It's the first time Angela has been able to lay eyes on her eldest son in four years, since the four family members were arrested.


Almost immediately, Angela admitted she was guilty of helping the family prepare for the murder spree that left eight people dead — and that her husband and two sons were also involved.


Pike County murder trial: Angela Wagner called to stand, opted out of recording

She said Billy convinced her murdering several members of the family was the only way the plan would work, before he spoke to Jake and George about it.
The four Wagners discussed how to cover up the crimes, including being careful to never speak about it, Angela said. They also discussed items they would need, like gloves and masks, to cover their tracks.
Angela said she spoke to both Jake and George about the murder plot.