OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Skully67]

Yes, important to remember. George admitted that his bloody footprints were at Chris Sr's.
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Her testimony confirms what was revealed from shoeprint evidence.

Jake confirms the same. Neither AW or JW were allowed to speak to or otherwise communicate with each other during incarceration. In this respect, their stories match.

But...that is what AW says...that GW4 told her that. Other then AW, has he told anyone else? Did JW say the print is GW4s?

 

[Betty P]

But...that is what AW says...that GW4 told her that. Other then AW, has he told anyone else? Did JW say the print is GW4s?

Yes, he said he and GW wore the shoes that night. Jake has some conflicting info in his testimony, but not about the shoes.

 

[Skully67]

Yes, he said he and GW wore the shoes that night. Jake has some conflicting info in his testimony, but not about the shoes.

I guess it's going to come down to whether the jury believes mom & brother. I'm not convinced of their testimony. I do believe their own involvement. I keep looking 4 the smoking gun, the other shoe to drop.

 

[Pru2U]

But...that is what AW says...that GW4 told her that. Other then AW, has he told anyone else? Did JW say the print is GW4s?

Would you believe it if JW did say it in addition to AW? Or would you rather believe they somehow got their stories straight with each other in advance?

We have all figured out by now, the lies AW tells are in direct correlation to getting what she wants. So I’m curious, how does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

 

[Skully67]

Would you believe it if JW did say it in addition to AW? Or would you rather believe they somehow got their stories straight with each other in advance?

We have all figured out by now, the lies AW tells are in direct correlation to getting what she wants. So I’m curious, how does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

I just don't believe anything she has said. Some people are compulsive liars, even when telling the truth is more helpful to their cause. Who knows why (or if) she may be lying about the footprints. Maybe they are her prints and GW4 is the one who stayed at home. AW and JW seem to be closer to each other then the others, which has given me pause. She gave her confession after JW did. What did she know about the details of his confession...who knows.

I'm not saying I think he's innocent, I think he was aware of the plan and possibly helped. But was he there that night? I don't know. I do think there is evidence he participated in the cover up afterwards. All of this is just my opinion. I've watched the trial just like everyone else.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know, but I know they are out there, Canepa talked about them on a public pre trial hearing in front of the judge.

The proffers won't be available to the public for quite some time. The plea agreements haven't been finalized or signed yet, so they're not official. They won't be until after Billy's trial. If the proffers are made public, it won't be until after that.

If anyone out there is quoting or sharing information from these proffers, they're either lying or should be reported to the prosecutor's office.

 

[Chingaling]

This is just my personal opinion but I think there are a variety of reasons: 1) It was overcast early morning and the door was under roof. 2) She wasn’t expecting or looking for foul play and 3) I think it’s very possible her eyes took in the doorframe but her brain did not. Her mind was already racing, turning over questions as to why CR’s truck was still there, why the dogs were outside, why the door was locked, why Chris wasn’t answering…there’s only so much the brain can take in at one time - and that “how much” factor is totally dependent on the individual.

I’m not talking about you, Chingaling, so this is not directed at you but this is one thing I’m most passionate about; it always frustrated me how early on people pointed at this as a reason to suspect BJM (Leonard & James). Her not knowing CR’s address (for 911 call), her knowing where the key was…people were so quick to point fingers at her and it broke my heart for her. None of us know the fascinating capabilities of our own brain much less a perfect stranger’s. None of us know how we would react in that kind of situation until we are faced with it, so questioning or judging someone else’s response to a traumatic event is fruitless.

I don’t know if it was AW who anonymously planted this seed, but it took off quicker than a prom dress. My heart still hurts for all the Manley family endured at the hands of the W-4.

Rant over.

I didn't intend to make you go on a rant. Lord I wanted to bring her here with me to shield her from all that nonsense about the M's being the perps. I never meant for it to sound like I was putting her down or was suspect of her or any of the family. o not sure how that was interpreted as such. "But let me tell you something" lol, if I see bullet holes and blood on the porch and the truck in the yard, I'm already on the phone with 911.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

There is a good chance the jury can't put George in those shoes as well.

Oh those pesky, ugly old mans shoes. I wonder just how many of those same type of shoes were sold in that county, or neighboring counties?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

Wow, good questions.

 

[Chingaling]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

I just chalked it up to there were things that needed to be removed before hand.

 

[Chingaling]

I'm worried about that too! Assuming BCI agent listened to the audio himself and heard GW4's threat or Julia E heard the threat, then why couldn't either one of them testify to hearing it?? Then you'd think it would have to be played. Just wrong it was not played and like what has been decided on other evidence, let the jury decide what weight they want to give it.

Judge Deering lives in that community. He is retiring. Does he want that legacy?? This trial for him has been a whole different ball game. Is the law such that he has no choice but to put the DP back or is it up to his discretion or interpretation?

I have no doubt that if GW4 gets off and that is very likely or with little time left to serve that RS better get the he** outta dodge. GW4 will locked and loaded. I hope RS can do something about the judge saying it was a rant. Would judge feel the same if GW4 said that about him and his own family? I think it would be a different story.

 

[Pru2U]

I just don't believe anything she has said. Some people are compulsive liars, even when telling the truth is more helpful to their cause. Who knows why (or if) she may be lying about the footprints. Maybe they are her prints and GW4 is the one who stayed at home. AW and JW seem to be closer to each other then the others, which has given me pause. She gave her confession after JW did. What did she know about the details of his confession...who knows.

I'm not saying I think he's innocent, I think he was aware of the plan and possibly helped. But was he there that night? I don't know. I do think there is evidence he participated in the cover up afterwards. All of this is just my opinion. I've watched the trial just like everyone else.

I understand. I question whether or not Angela was there that night. I question if and how, exactly is GW "different from the rest of them", and if he was so different, why did he stay so tightly intertwined with them. I question where GW was that night, if he wasn't with Jake & Billy, and he wasn't home with Angela. Wherever he was, I question why he didn't provide a solid alibi from the beginning. I question why GW's defense team didn't lead with his alibi as their very first witness. While I understand it is incumbent upon the state to prove GW's guilt and not on GW prove his innocence, the man is facing the death penalty. If I were fighting for MY life, I would use everything I could to prove my innocence.

The one thing I am 100% confident about is the testimony of Jake and Angela is the closest we will probably ever get to the truth of what happened that night, what led up to that night & how they managed to evade their arrests for so long. A few more details may come out of Billy's trial but this is really about the best we're going to get as far as answers. The way I see it, our options are to take it or leave it. I've decided I'll take it.

 

[Chingaling]

Ahh did you not see where the defense shredded the BCI agent on those movies to the point the judge called a halt and instructed the jury that movies are made with actors, the plots of movies are the imagination of screen writers and producers and there is no evidence that those movies relate in any way to these murders of 8 people?

That is one more thing Canepa dropped and never followed through on.

JMO

And just think, Dewine handpicked his star prosecutor for the biggest trial in oh history. Never trusted that man with his thin lips.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I suppose it's possible, but it really serves no purpose. They thought it would be assumed to be drug related. They didn't know BCI would be in there that same day. They surely didn't know a shoe expert could match the exact shoe from a print, without having a shoe to compare it too. We know they planed to destroy the shoes after the fact and they did just that. They didn't plant the shoes somewhere to frame someone so why leave a print on purpose? Also, why knowingly put a victims DNA on your shoes? If they were pulled over for something unrelated or had a wreck or any number of things before they could destry them now they have DNA on their shoes. i think it was accidental in the act of moving 2 larger men who were bleeding more than they might have realized they would. I don't think they counted on Chris Sr's arm basically being blown off. It didn't go according to plan and when that happens things get done that might not be otherwise.

IMO, Jake knew what kind of shoes Leonard M. wore and he had mommy dearest buy those exact kind of shoes. That dude is a proven LIAR and hopefully the jurors keep that in mind along with AW's list of lies when they deliberate. My guess is guilty on some counts but not all.

Hopefully this trial will be wrapped up by weeks end with closing arguments beginning Friday (11/18) and the jury getting it the following Monday (11/21).

 

[Betty P]

But...that is what AW says...that GW4 told her that. Other then AW, has he told anyone else? Did JW say the print is GW4s?

Who else would he tell? Billy? He’s not talking.

I’m not sure I recall the evidence that proves AW is lying in all of her testimony. She likely realizes she could lose her plea deal if she doesn’t.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Would you believe it if JW did say it in addition to AW? Or would you rather believe they somehow got their stories straight with each other in advance?

We have all figured out by now, the lies AW tells are in direct correlation to getting what she wants. So I’m curious, how does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

MOO, 30 Years instead of life.

 

[Betty P]

IMO, Jake knew what kind of shoes Leonard M. wore and he had mommy dearest buy those exact kind of shoes. That dude is a proven LIAR and hopefully the jurors keep that in mind along with AW's list of lies when they deliberate. My guess is guilty on some counts but not all.

Hopefully this trial will be wrapped up by weeks end with closing arguments beginning Friday (11/18) and the jury getting it the following Monday (11/21).

GW4 is still guilty according to the evidence and testimony. All the Wagners are liars. It’s the kind of family they come from. But when Jake testifies about George, especially on the shoes, his testimony matches the evidence.

 

[Betty P]

Would you believe it if JW did say it in addition to AW? Or would you rather believe they somehow got their stories straight with each other in advance?

We have all figured out by now, the lies AW tells are in direct correlation to getting what she wants. So I’m curious, how does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

Lying about GW4 or any of her co conspirators earns her a trial and risk of the DP. She has no motive to lie. Youre right, she’s not getting anything out of it.

 

[Betty P]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

<modsnip: Address the post and not the poster>

In the first weeks of testimony, the BCI agents explained how they processed that crime scene. They said prints were taken from the shoes of anyone who entered that crime scene To compare with shoe prints. Nash and Parker have had all that evidence for about 3 yrs now. If they saw a discrepancy, they should have said so.

 

[rsd1200]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

Why did, a trained EMT ( iirc), do so? CM. It's an intense line of work and not everyone is cut out for it but there are very strict protocols no matter if it's family, or a stranger, at a murder scene. I think BJM wanted to see if CR1 was hurt. She could only see blood and drag marks. She was quite close to him.