OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Betty P]

I'm not saying I believe he is innocent. I'm saying, I don't believe they Prosecution proved their case against him. Two entirely different things. I said in the beginning this was was over drugs and was likely mountain justice. Sure, toss in the custody thing but there were two custody matters going on at that moment, very vocally, on FB. Fights galore. I've never defended the W4, but what you see as proof, may not be what i see as proof. The judge makes the final decision, but usually goes with the jury's recommendation. All of the self admitted testimony from JW and Aw, evidence all over the place, but they have shown me nothing as far as hard proof. It's all circumstantial and he said she said. I've a case very close to my kin on this site. I didn't even know it til I signed up for the R / HHG case. One is serving LWOP, the other is not. Both were there. Twas over a child. Nothing is for certain.

So you're saying a person who helped murder 8 people should go free just because you think the prosecution didn't prove their case?

 

[rsd1200]

The first story he told did not have GW4.

Canepa said, in a pre trial hearing, that they had jake go over his story several times before they could match it to some of the evidence. <modsnip: opinion stated as fact>

JMO

And they can sit you there in that room as long as they want. Seemed JW had such a bad memory too. You don't have to have a good memory if you're story has never never changed. I didn't see that he and AW's stories matched as well as i thought they should re; G4 either. What a tangled web they weave.

 

[rsd1200]

So you're saying a person who helped murder 8 people should go free just because you think the prosecution didn't prove their case?

Where did I say that? Point it out. Stop the accusations. It's the foundation of our court system. I might be a redneck, Hillbilly but I'm an educated one. The prosecution has the burden of proving G4 guilty. I don't think they did that...yet, anyway.

In order to prove a defendant guilty of criminal conduct, the prosecution must prove guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt.” The beyond a reasonable doubt burden of proof is the highest standard of proof there is and with good reason.
What Is the Burden of Proof in a Criminal Case? - CDH Law PLLC

 

[rsd1200]

Well we have sure seen Canepa "shade the truth" in this trial. Burned DVR, guns she knew was not used in the murders, thousands of shell casings of the wrong caliber, a tattoo that the tat artist testified was his idea, a wolf picture, shoes, hours of phone calls between Angie and Rita, Angie and Jake, Beths library card, a 40,000.00 insurance deposit to Billy's bank account she tried to say was to George's bank account, an oil filter bought from Billy's account she tried to say was a purchase by George, the list goes on and on.

JMO

Then, Oh, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. After it's in the juror's brains.

 

[Dudly]

And they can sit you there in that room as long as they want. Seemed JW had such a bad memory too. You don't have to have a good memory if you're story has never never changed. I didn't see that he and AW's stories matched as well as i thought they should re; G4 either. What a tangled web they weave.

The witness for the Defense explained that you may not hear or see things or remember things exactly during traumatic experiences…

 

[sunshineray]

Hmm. I seem to recall pointing the finger at Jake and his family from almost day one. Right after Lenny gave a press interview saying it was over child custody, Before the crime scenes were even finished being processed.

I think I must have made a thousand posts on here arguing it was not the cartel, it was not the chicken fighting, it was not the derby races, it was not road rage, it was Jake because Hannah left him and was having another man's child and Jake being a common variety domestic abuser, killed her when she left and told him she wasn't coming back.

Maybe you said it was over all that other stuff, but I can say for certain I never did.

JMO

LM and you were 100% correct! And it turned out to be another local family's criminal plot. Did you see that one coming? I certainly didn't. I just couldn't fathom a mother, father and their two sons slaughtering a whole family...mother, father, three kids and then three more relations. Quite a bunch of vipers the W's have been proven to be!

 

[rsd1200]

The witness for the Defense explained that you may not hear or see things or remember things exactly during traumatic experiences…

I completely agree. All of the discrepancies at least regarding his participation, I felt were just him self aggrandizing parts he may be sketchy about. Do i believe they did not lie on the stand? No. Anyone who has ever called them liars on this thread, can't tell me they sat up there and told the stone cold truth.

 

[Betty P]

Where did I say that? Point it out. Stop the accusations. It's the foundation of our court system. I might be a redneck, Hillbilly but I'm an educated one. The prosecution has the burden of proving G4 guilty. I don't think they did that...yet, anyway.

In order to prove a defendant guilty of criminal conduct, the prosecution must prove guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt.” The beyond a reasonable doubt burden of proof is the highest standard of proof there is and with good reason.
What Is the Burden of Proof in a Criminal Case? - CDH Law PLLC

That’s up to the jury to decide. Its your opinion.
We’ve all been watching this trial from the first day. Some of us have been following it through the pre trial phase. Most are of the opinion that GW4 is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The state has provided ample evidence, including the sworn testimony of two accomplices.
That’s solid evidence.

 

[Betty P]

Where did I say that? Point it out. Stop the accusations. It's the foundation of our court system. I might be a redneck, Hillbilly but I'm an educated one. The prosecution has the burden of proving G4 guilty. I don't think they did that...yet, anyway.

In order to prove a defendant guilty of criminal conduct, the prosecution must prove guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt.” The beyond a reasonable doubt burden of proof is the highest standard of proof there is and with good reason.
What Is the Burden of Proof in a Criminal Case? - CDH Law PLLC

They have provided evidence and sworn confessions that prove GW4s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[sunshineray]

I completely agree. All of the discrepancies at least regarding his participation, I felt were just him self aggrandizing parts he may be sketchy about. Do i believe they did not lie on the stand? No. Anyone who has ever called them liars on this thread, can't tell me they sat up there and told the stone cold truth.

What spoke volumes to me is that JW puts he and his brother in the truck bed hidden, then under the truck ready and waiting to start firing. GWIV either lost his nerve or couldn't see with the oil filter in his sites. JW takes the gun from his brother and BW gets CRSR to the door again. JW opens fire as does BW inside. Then they pile in the two vehicles and go to KR's then they come back to DR's (I know I'm omitting FR's) and GWIV stands guard outside CRJR's room, gun in hand.

Guilty, Guilty, Guilty...GWIV was there (went there to keep his brother safe according to defense lawyer). The motive/reason he was there matters not one iota, just the fact he was there and participating. There's no way around that, he was there.

Then the cover-up and all the ranting about everything is just icing that finishes it off. I think the jurors will reason it all out. AJMO

I am though very interested to see what the defense puts up.

 

[sunshineray]

That’s up to the jury to decide. Its your opinion.
We’ve all been watching this trial from the first day. Some of us have been following it through the pre trial phase. Most are of the opinion that GW4 is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The state has provided ample evidence, including the sworn testimony of two accomplices.
That’s solid evidence.

Yes Betty, that's VERY solid evidence, IMO

 

[rsd1200]

That’s up to the jury to decide. Its your opinion.
We’ve all been watching this trial from the first day. Some of us have been following it through the pre trial phase. Most are of the opinion that GW4 is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The state has provided ample evidence, including the sworn testimony of two accomplices.
That’s solid evidence.

Of course I know a jury will do that and then it's up to the judge to accept their verdict. I've been following this case and trial since April 22, 2016. I may not always be on WS, but it's not the only place to read nor watch, nor is it the be all end all. There's plenty of news sites, research sites, and newspapers that have carried this case. You've done a fine job documenting, but I have my own documentation as well. I disagree about the state. That's YOUR opinion and you know what they say about opinions, they're like keisters, everyone has one. If "opinions" are what is running our jury system these days then we are all in sad shape. I'll not be talked down to because your opinion of my belief is one of distaste, sir/madam.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So you're saying a person who helped murder 8 people should go free just because you think the prosecution didn't prove their case?

Isn't that the way the court system works? Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. If the prosecution does not prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then he walks free. Whether we all on here think he is guilty does not matter. We are not on the jury. If he walks then we have no option but to bow to the greater knowledge that the jury has and live with it.

One of the things that is hampering all of us is we have only heard about 1/3rd of the testimony in this case because of opt outs. Had we been allowed to see or even hear Jake and Angie's testimonies then we could better judge for ourselves if they were lying or not.

But I can tell you that what we have heard from Jake and Angie are a series of news articles and a MT interview of Angie where they both lied their azzes off.

It is really sad that some people have, for over 6 years believed any thing that came out of Jake and Angie's mouths was a bald face lie but yet now believe that everything that comes out of their mouths is the gospel truth.

I guess it is whatever floats your boat as to whether two people who have blatantly lied for over 6 years just suddenly woke up one day and said I am never going to lie again. Everything I say from here on out is the absolute truth.

But it's whatever gets you through the night I guess. For myself I know that a leopard never changes it's spots. A liar always lies.

But as Jake famously said "I reckon we just missed it by hours." and "All the lies they told us" said Charlie Reader. This is the same man and woman who is now speaking the gospel truth according to some.

Well whatever snake oil they are selling I am not buying and i hope the jury does not either.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And they can sit you there in that room as long as they want. Seemed JW had such a bad memory too. You don't have to have a good memory if you're story has never never changed. I didn't see that he and AW's stories matched as well as i thought they should re; G4 either. What a tangled web they weave.

"I reckon they just missed it by hours"

JMO

 

[Piffcat]

Agree. What physical evidence do they have? I've only heard the testimony of AW and JW that puts GW4 there. As far as planning, what direct evidence have we heard or seen, other then testimony, that shows he was part of that. We certainly have alot of circumstantial and inferences.

really the question becomes is this ok? are we as a society ok with absolutely requiring evidence outside of common sense. if a murder is commited with no innocent witnesses, no dna is left behind, and no video evidence exists. is this murder now un-convictable without a confession? because this is what the wagners plan was and its what they almost accomplished. if jake had not cracked the other 3 may have gotten off . even though its 100 percent they killed 8 ppl the cumlative effect of defendents rights case law is just like the pass interference rules in the nfl. they keep adding restrictions. and it fundamentaly changes the game. every nfl fan knows its gotten much easier to complete a pass since the rules restricting contact to the wr. just like its gotten way easier to kill someone and be found not guilty or get a sweet plea bargain as a killer . difference is ones a game and the other is protecting peoples lives.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So you're saying a person who helped murder 8 people should go free just because you think the prosecution didn't prove their case?

Well if the prosecution does not prove he murdered 8 people then I guess we all have to just suck it up and accept the jury's verdict of not guilty.

I don't think any of us was there the night of the murders so we really don't know who shot who or who was there or who was not there do we?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Then, Oh, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. After it's in the juror's brains.

Yeppers. All the prosecution has proved beyond a reasonable doubt is that they are experts in producing nothing but smoke and mirrors.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Snipped and BBM
"It is really sad that some people have, for over 6 years believed any thing that came out of Jake and Angie's mouths was a bald face lie but yet now believe that everything that comes out of their mouths is the gospel truth"

Violent criminals lie all the time, before they're arrested and after. When it happens that they either see the errors of their ways (for whatever reasons) and/or their lawyer(s) convince them that to continue lying will get them the death penalty, they more times than not come around to speaking the truth...the truth that fits the evidence.

There's nothing sinister in an accused violent criminal finally speaking the truth to saved their life. Historically it's happened countless times and it will continue to happen I'm sure.

People make too much out of the fact that JW told his lawyers at first that it was all his doing. Most likely they confronted him that, according to the prosecution's evidence, that boat don't float JW. That will ensure you all are convicted and put on death row. JW saw the light AND a way to save even the most stubborn of his family from recieving the death penalty. That would be called making a good deal, IMO, if you and your family are murderers. It seems that's what JW thought anyway, as he took that deal.
AJMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The witness for the Defense explained that you may not hear or see things or remember things exactly during traumatic experiences…

Well jake sure remembered he killed 5 people and shot a 6th. He didn't have any trouble with that memory or math.

<modsnip: facetious and sarcastic>

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

And they can sit you there in that room as long as they want. Seemed JW had such a bad memory too. You don't have to have a good memory if you're story has never never changed. I didn't see that he and AW's stories matched as well as i thought they should re; G4 either. What a tangled web they weave.

Maybe their stories didn't seem to match as well as you'd hoped because one of them was at the scenes of the murders and the other was just told about it...or not?