OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[arielilane]

Pike County murder trial: Experts testify about ballistics, shoeprint evidence

White said he believed all of the .30 caliber bullets recovered from the first crime scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were found dead, were fired from the same gun. No cartridges for that firearm were ever recovered for comparison.


White then worked to try and identify what kind of firearm likely would have fired the bullets. An SKS rifle was the likely culprit for the .30 caliber high-powered rounds discovered at Chris Sr.'s house, White said. That particular gun is not extremely common, he said.

He went on to say he believed, through comparison techniques, that the .40 caliber bullets and casings recovered from the first scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were killed, and the fourth scene, where Kenneth was killed, were all fired from the same .40 caliber weapon.
Based on the impression the firing pin made in the cartridge cases found, White said he determined early that they were from a Glock pistol.



After reaching out to other firearms experts, a BCI agent in Bowling Green, Ohio said he'd encountered similar characteristics from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol. White said he examined several test fires with several different Walther Colt 1911 pistols and corresponded with the manufacturer's design engineer in Germany. He ultimately determined this was the kind of gun used to fire the .22 caliber shots that killed Frankie and Hannah Hazel at the second crime scene and Dana, Chris Jr. and Hanna May at the third crime scene.

BBM GW4 rifle, IMO

 

[Berrybell]

In opening statement the defense stated that JW major witness for the prosecution will tell the court that GW4 neither helped plan nor pulled a trigger throughout any of the crimes committed on the night of 4/21.

He (Nash) pointed out that credibility for Angela and Jake as prosecution witnesses should be viewed with skepticism, because they took a deal.

However, JW testified that GW4 was present for the murders and GW4 helped build the false pick-up bed under which the brothers hid that night, that GW4 wore a ski mask and a pair of Walmart shoes and he possessed the SKS rifle that night.



AW testified that the entire family planned, prepared for, carried out and attempted to cover up the murders. AW testified that BW3 and both sons left the house together that night and returned the next morning. She stayed home with two (S&B) of her grandchildren, she said.

AW spoke with GW4 about the bloody footprints left at one of the crime scenes, because GW4 had told her he’d attempted to smudge them, but BW3 hurried him out of the room too quickly, telling him not to worry about it, come on.

Canepa (AC) asked AW whether she knew who was responsible for the footprints; she initially responded that she didn’t. AC asked her to read a transcript of the testimony she gave the prosecution during her plea deal, which AW stated sparked her memory. AW replied that GW4 told her the bloody footprints at the home were Chris Sr. and Gary were murdered were his.

AW testified: Billy doled out instructions on what to do leading up to the homicides, she said, including telling her to send texts from George and Jake's phones to make it look like they were home during the homicides.


Common sense tells you GW4 would be a participate, in action. Visualize it. I can see GW4 standing around not doing anything (makes no sense). No, he wasn't standing watch either. Adrenaline... fight or flight response. His make up shows he would fight for his family. "One for all, and all for one." Is JW lying about GW4 not shooting anybody in order to make sure he is a free man? Probable. Ws need a man out to keep control of the kids. Both GW4 & JW were willing to take the blame for all 8 murders.

Defense hasn’t placed reasonable doubt, thus far. We will see...

IMO, there were many times during the trial what seemed like more than GW4 was on trial. However, in a sense maybe they all (Ws) were because with this crime family it’s always been “one for all, and all for one”... Right? However, make no mistake, GW4 is on trial and him alone.

Even if there is no evidence of GW4 shooting there is enough evidence to put him away LWOP.

This narrative is all in my opinion only and subject to change.

I do agree they were all equal participants and I don't think GW will get a lesser sentence than LWOP.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Yeah. I feel like were over half way there. I remember a time before the Peterson road searches no one believed it was the Wagners. It was the mexican mafia, it was because of a fight at a derby race, it was a road rage lady, etc, etc, etc. Then the Wagners became official suspects and still people insisted they were innocent. Then the Wagners were arrested and yet still people thought they were being framed. Then two of the four Wagners not only confess, but they admit all 4 of them planned, participated in some way and all four helped cover up the murders, and yet still people want to believe George Wagner is innocent. George knows enough about the conspiracy to say on one of the wiretaps that if one of them is not arrested they should break the others out of jail/prison. Why would he be saying that if he knows nothing about the murders.

Because us humans tend to make things more difficult then they really are. Everything is always very simple.
We tend to want to put labels on someone to satiate our own reconciliation of this tragedy.
There will never be one in our "normal" minds as they're are those who walk among us who are just plain evil.

 

[Chelly]

I am hoping judge and lawyers are able to wrap up their evidence discussions while the jury is off today. I wonder if the jury is weary of all these delays. At least today jurors are not being forced again to wait hour-after-hour in the jury room. moo

 

[Pyrite]

So you're saying a person who helped murder 8 people should go free just because you think the prosecution didn't prove their case?

I’ll say it. If the prosecution doesn’t prove their case, GW4 should go free. That is how justice works in America.

So your saying GW4 should be locked up for life or given the death penalty because in your mind he is guilty?

 

[arielilane]

Because us humans tend to make things more difficult then they really are. Everything is always very simple.
We tend to want to put labels on someone to satiate our own reconciliation of this tragedy.
There will never be one in our "normal" minds as they're are those who walk among us who are just plain evil.

Hiding in plain sight.

 

[arielilane]

I'm pulling away from my beloved Apple for a bit, will be back later. See ya all later.

 

[Betty P]

Based on the impression the firing pin made in the cartridge cases found, White said he determined early that they were from a Glock pistol.

Thanks, Arielilane. This summary helps clear up earlier confusion about firing pins tested from guns and .40 cal ammo found at the crime scenes and Wagner farm.

They tested a firing pin and determined the ammo found at the farm was probably from a Glock pistol. Because there were no.40 cartridge cases found at the crime scene, they couldn't verify or link the bullets to a specific gun.

When Jake took them to the cut up guns, etc. in the cement buckets at FWF, a correlation was established between the analysis of the cartridges from Peterson Rd farm and the Glock hidden in the pond. It wasn't a definitive connection.

The definitive connection was made, however, linking the .22 cartridge found at the farm with cartridges at the crime scene with Jake's .22 pistol.

 

[Betty P]

Interesting that John Parker used the same arguments to defend serial killer Anthony Sowell as he's using to defend George Wagner 4.

Defense to present case in Sowell murder trial

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The defense will begin presenting its case at the trial of an Ohio man charged with killing 11 women and dumping their bodies around his home.

www.daytondailynews.com

Defense attorney John Parker told jurors during his opening statement that there are no fingerprints or DNA or other scientific evidence linking Sowell to the killings.

Anthony Sowell was the serial killer who murdered 11 women, then dumped their bodies around his home. Some of the remains of the murdered women were found in various rooms of Solwell's house.

Unseen (2016) - IMDb

Unseen: Directed by Laura Paglin. With Vanessa Gay, Latundra Billups, Shawn Morris, Melvette Sockwell. In 2009, police discovered the bodies of eleven women decomposing in and around the home of a known sex offender. With access to the surviving victims, Unseen looks into how the murders of...

www.imdb.com

 

[Niner]

I noticed that a couple of tweets said the Prosecutor will rest today - but will they not formally rest their case in front of the jury tomorrow?

TIA!

 

[Betty P]

I noticed that a couple of tweets said the Prosecutor will rest today - but will they not formally rest their case in front of the jury tomorrow?

TIA!

As usual, it looks like the negotiation with defense over the evidence photos is taking longer than anticipated. When they finish that chore, prosecution can then formally introduce all the evidence and rest their case.

JMO

 

[Niner]

As usual, it looks like the negotiation with defense over the evidence photos is taking longer than anticipated. When they finish that chore, prosecution can then formally introduce all the evidence and rest their case.

JMO

and that will be in front of the jury? TIA! Sorry for all the questions!

 

[Chelly]

@Fox19_Mike
3h
PIKE COUNTY: Week 10 of the George Wagner IV murder trial begins. No jury/testimony today. State moving to admit over 1000 exhibits including autopsy, crime scene pics into the record. Defense can object. Anything not admitted can’t be considered by jury. ⁦
@FOX19
⁩

 

[Nanasteele]

Wow, good questions.

Some people don't think at time of crisis. I'm sure they have never been through something like this and didn't even cross their mind. A few may have wanted to make sure they were dead. That was a very bad situation! Especially when you know kids are living in these trailers.

 

[Betty P]

and that will be in front of the jury? TIA! Sorry for all the questions!

Yes, I believe so. Judge Deering first rules on the photos, etc. that prosecution and defense just negotiated. I suppose that's a formality. It should all be in front of the jury.

They don't do the negotiation over evidence, photos, etc. in front of the jury because some photos, etc. may not be allowed. Once they've agreed on the evidence to be formally accepted as evidence, it should be ok for jurors to see proceedings.

 

[Chelly]

Considering the mountain of evidence and exhibits that require discussing and ruling today, I will be amazed if Judge can start this trial on time tomorrow morning. More wait-time coming up for jury?

 

[Betty P]

Considering the mountain of evidence and exhibits that require discussing and ruling today, I will be amazed if Judge can start this trial on time tomorrow morning. More wait-time coming up for jury?

TBH, Parker and Nash have always delayed the process. It's one of the reasons why pre-trial hearings took nearly 4 years. IANAL, so I don't know how that benefits their client's case, but they do drag it out.

 

[Chelly]

Do we know yet if prosecution and defense have come to an agreement on evidence? I guess we will find out when judge rules that court can go back on the record so he can make a ruling. moo

 

[Chelly]

TBH, Parker and Nash have always delayed the process. It's one of the reasons why pre-trial hearings took nearly 4 years. IANAL, so I don't know how that benefits their client's case, but they do drag it out.

Yes, Defense procedure is annoying. Maybe it's their way of demonstrating they are working hard on behalf of client. The nature of defense lawyers is delay, delay, delay and that seems to apply to every darn thing they do.

 

[dgfred]

Regular ones do the same. Delay = more $ usually.