OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[blackbeary]

I actually assumed it was a bloody print too because the other ones were obviously bloody with all the blood everywhere in that first scene. I had to go look it up myself because it was bothering me that I couldn't remember more about that print. lol It is also possible it isn't mud or dirt, but whatever was left from the blood that didn't leave a noticeable print. Then when dusted with that dust, it showed up when the dust stuck to the (maybe biological matter??) I think similar to how finger prints don't always look noticeable until dust is applied. I am no expert, but this makes sense in my brain I'll update tomorrow once I listen again to that testimony to see if it makes any more sense.

I can't figure out the print at DR's. If they did all of that running around, how did that print remain so fresh by the time they reached her home? I remember JW said he burnt up the floor mats, clothing, phone's, etc. .

 

[blackbeary]

I fell behind with the trial and this thread and I’m trying to get caught up so please excuse me if this has been addressed and discussed but didn’t Jake say in his testimony that Billy pulled over and asked him if he was sure he wanted to go through with the murders? Did I understand that right? I can’t wrap my head around that. He pulled over on a dark road in the middle of the night popped down the back and was like “hey man you sure about this?” like even in the dead of night in an area that I assume is pretty secluded that’s a pretty big risk imo Am I missing something totally obvious? To me that screams that it was just him and Jake in the cab of the truck.

I took it that the boys got into the back of the truck just prior to CR's place, you never know, they seem to scream at each other constantly, according to HR, TC and BAW.

 

[sunshineray]

I can't figure out the print at DR's. If they did all of that running around, how did that print remain so fresh by the time they reached her home? I remember JW said he burnt up the floor mats, clothing, phone's, etc. .

Maybe blood was pooled deeply inside the treads of the shoe. Was there carpet at DR site?

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, November 15th:
*Trial continues with Judge & attorneys (@ 8:30am) & Trial (Day 42) (@ 12pm ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man). A few are in their late 20s or 30s, but most are in their 40s or 50s.
Trial began with opening statements on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days).
Added note: Regarding shoe sizes: Jake wore the size 10.5 & George the 11.
Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-41 (9/12 to 11/10/22) no court on 10/27, 11/4 & 11/11/22 reference post #755 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-83.643555/page=38
11/14/22 Monday: Judge & attorneys only. State moving to admit over 1000 exhibits including autopsy, crime scene pics into the record. Defense can object. Anything not admitted can’t be considered by jury.
For more info see post #738 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-83.643555/page-38
For more info see posts #764 & 777 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-83.643555/page-39
Judge Deering determined attorneys would return Tuesday morning at 8:30 a.m. to argue their cases on the evidence; the jury will not be called in until noon.
For more info see posts #804, 808, 812, 815, 817 & 819 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-83.643555/page-41
Trial continues with Judge & attorneys @ 8:30am & the jury coming back at noon on Tuesday, 11/15/22.

 

[rsd1200]

In truth though killing all 8 or just 5 and wounding one, it's all actions he did that resulted in the murder of 8 human beings so he's guilty either way. I honestly think JW had a skewed picture of himself being chivalrous and taking all the blame. My child we were saving etc...and he wasn't going to let GWIV's thoughts about him being the weak link come true.

When it all was shown to him, explained to him that no matter what he said the other 3 were not going to avoid justice because the evidence showed their guilty involvement, well then JW's attention shifted to keeping his family alive.
AJMO

I very much think JW thinks he "saved" S, or at least uses it justify the murders b/c he's not sorry. He's not once said it in a way that I believe that he is. Look at his story at DR's. Doesn't make sense.

They found a shoe print. Yet, it can't be placed on either of the three men's feet. What I find odd though is that three men enter the home, and instead of one each taking a room. They just stand there playing rent-a-guard, while it's JW who sees DR and HR through their closed bedroom doors, (he even peeks under the doors), and then they see him. He shoots DR in the head, through a closed door, and, with a light, as bright as that in the courtroom, he sees HMR, preparing to feed the baby. She looks up JW shoots her. Compassionately /s rearranges her body so the infant can seek to nurse (I guess he thought they're like pups and that deceased women continue to produce milk), he then proceeds past his armed rent-a-guards, to murder CR2. What is not right with this picture? Get in, get out, one man takes one room each and they're gone and out of there. I call that whole story B.S. does it matter to the jury that it's full of holes? Idk.

 

[sunshineray]

Well if the prosecution does not prove he murdered 8 people then I guess we all have to just suck it up and accept the jury's verdict of not guilty.

I don't think any of us was there the night of the murders so we really don't know who shot who or who was there or who was not there do we?

JMO

It's my understanding all they needed to prove is GWIV was involved. Involvement in the conspiracy to commit the 8 aggravated murders. Being at the scenes, moving dead bodies, driving a vehicle, standing guard while holding a weapon...all that would prove involvement.
That doesn't even touch on the evidence of aforethought actions or cover-up, just the being there...enough for a guilty verdict. AJMO

 

[rsd1200]

I know you and Raize have been here since the beginning, with the rest of us, doing great work and analysis.

I agree, the dumb Ohio law allowing anyone to opt out of A/V recording has backfired in this trial. It's caused some mistrust of those watching the proceedings. Hopefully, the Ohio GA and DeWine will get rid of or change this law. For now, we can trust the jury, who has been seeing and hearing all the testimony, and Judge Deering. JMO

Agree. I'm putting my faith in the jury. I can't in good faith make a decision based on what I've seen, if I were a juror. The real jurors have seen so much more. They've not missed a single day nor a single word. What they decide, I will consider justice done. My views are from an armchair perspective, with what info I've been provided, only. Our transcribers have done a bang up job. However, without being there in person, I can't accurately read it in the witnesses voices and tones. Just like two folks who were there, when JW testified, and had different views of his behaviour on stand.

 

[sunshineray]

I very much think JW thinks he "saved" S, or at least uses it justify the murders b/c he's not sorry. He's not once said it in a way that I believe that he is. Look at his story at DR's. Doesn't make sense.

They found a shoe print. Yet, it can't be placed on either of the three men's feet. What I find odd though is that three men enter the home, and instead of one each taking a room. They just stand there playing rent-a-guard, while it's JW who sees DR and HR through their closed bedroom doors, (he even peeks under the doors), and then they see him. He shoots DR in the head, through a closed door, and, with a light, as bright as that in the courtroom, he sees HMR, preparing to feed the baby. She looks up JW shoots her. Compassionately /s rearranges her body so the infant can seek to nurse (I guess he thought they're like pups and that deceased women continue to produce milk), he then proceeds past his armed rent-a-guards, to murder CR2. What is not right with this picture? Get in, get out, one man takes one room each and they're gone and out of there. I call that whole story B.S. does it matter to the jury that it's full of holes? Idk.

I see it as the all for one, one for all mentality that was shown by the prosecution, that was the W's. Plus I can see the other two thinking, especially after the extreme chaos at CRSR's house, JW can certainly handle the women and a kid. I'm sure GW and BW were a bit traumatized mentally, GWIV became a different person according to testimony, having nightmares. JW was worried BW would self harm if JW told him he regretted their actions. JW just blocked it all out, don't talk about it. Those dynamics don't seem odd to me or full of holes, especially after the testimonies in this case. I think the jury can make an informed decision. AJMO

 

[rsd1200]

Just popped in to check updates. Won’t comment to posts just likes, my brain is in a fog. Internet reception is off an on here also at Cleveland Clinic hospital . Orthro dr thought my husband had a torn rotator cup that was healing. Was given news that he has 19 cancerous brain tumors, one cancerous tumor on his liver, pancreas, sternum, spinal cord and one pre cancerous tumor in each kidney.

I am so sorry to hear this. Sending peace and thoughts of comfort to you both.

 

[rsd1200]

I see it as the all for one, one for all mentality that was shown by the prosecution, that was the W's. Plus I can see the other two thinking, especially after the extreme chaos at CRSR's house, JW can certainly handle the women and a kid. I'm sure GW and BW were a bit traumatized mentally, GWIV became a different person according to testimony, having nightmares. JW was worried BW would self harm if JW told him he regretted their actions. JW just blocked it all out, don't talk about it. Those dynamics don't seem odd to me or full of holes, especially after the testimonies in this case. I think the jury can make an informed decision. AJMO

At the time of the murders, I'd see them all taking part, just as the did at CR1's. Someone had to shoot KR. Someone had to shoot FR and HHG. I do think JW shot HHG, b/c he stated not knowing the baby was between her and FR. So JW was the only one who murdered five people, while his dad and brother watched? I don't buy it. If all three there, all three shot. Did ballistics show that all three at DR's were likely shot by the same shooter? If so, then I don't think there was anyone else in the house.


There was only one set of shoe prints found in DR's trailer if I remember right but JW said his dad was standinding right beside GW4. Maybe that one set of shoe prints was JW's and he was the only one inside DR's trailer.

What i believe happened, and what they can prove, is two different things. Everyone still believes Casey Anthony is guilty but I think she was exonerated. I'm pretty darn sure that OJ is guilty, but the evidence wasn't there, so the law says otherwise.

 

[sunshineray]

At the time of the murders, I'd see them all taking part, just as the did at CR1's. Someone had to shoot KR. Someone had to shoot FR and HHG. So JW was the only one who could murder three people, while his dad and brother watched? I don't buy it. All three there, all three shot. Did ballistics show that all three were likely shot by the same shooter?


There was only one set of shoe prints found in DR's trailer if I remember right but JW said his dad was standinding right beside GW4. Maybe that one set of shoe prints was JW's and he was the only one inside DR's trailer.

What i believe happened, and what they can prove, is two different things. Everyone still believes Casey Anthony is guilty but I think she was exonerated. I'm pretty darn sure that OJ is guilty, but the evidence wasn't there, so the law says otherwise.

I believe those two cases were miscarriages of justice. AJMO

Do you think GWIV will take the stand? My logical mind is saying no way but his lawyers said he was not there, he was home. That makes me think he might take the stand...a slim chance but a chance.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You’re probably right.

Jake and George knew they would be ok because they were wearing the Walmart shoes, which would be destroyed later. That was the whole point of wearing the shoes - to point police in the wrong direction. The shoes were like those worn by Len Manley. They wanted LE to blame the murders on the Manleys.
Billy made sure not to leave any shoe prints.

Billy made sure not to leave any shoe prints.
How could he do that? There were copious amounts of blood everywhere and very limited space to drag bodies in. We know Billy was inside Chris's trailer, he shot both Chris and Gary with that .40 Glock according to Jake.

I just think that if Angie is telling the truth and George told her he wanted to wipe away the prints, if Billy was wearing his own boots, why would he tell George not to worry about it?

Let's think this over for a minute ok? Billy plans everything. That has been said several times. Gather the guns and ammo. Get a different vehicle not connected to us. Buy supplies for silencers. make silencers and test them. Think up foolproof plan to get us inside Chris's house. Plan the night it's carried out when it is cloudy so it is less likely to be seen. Buy shoes. Buy other supplies. Burn everything afterwards. Give the truck to his niece the next morning. Build goosebox for his father and anchor it down with cement buckets containing the cut up weapons. Hide it in plain sight in his moms pond. Every detail planned out right down to the nickel.

Then Angie tells us George told her he wanted to wipe out footprints and Billy said don't worry about it? A man who plans out every detail to not get caught? He has his own boots on and there is copious amounts of blood every where and he doesn't worry one bit about stepping in blood with boots that someone might have seen him wearing in the months or years prior and leaving footprints that can be traced back to him? That does not sound right. No it does not sound like the Billy we know.

Only two things here about what really happened. Since we know the footprint is there the only reason Billy didn't get rid of it was he was wearing the Walmart shoes that Angie bought. And Angie lied about George telling her he wanted to wipe out the footprint and Billy said don't worry about it. the only way Billy would not worry about that shoeprint and leave it there is if he was wearing the Walmart shoes that he thought could not be traced back to him.

She lied about what George told her and about him being in Chris's trailer. It is the only thing that fits. Because it sure as heck don't fit that a man like Billy that plans out everything so it is not connected back to him would blow off bloody footprints if he was wearing his own boots.

Was it said somewhere that those boots found during the search at the friends house were a size 12? Didn't Angie say she bought the shoes in a smaller size than they wore? If so Billy might have gotten that size 11 on his feet.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

GW signed those fake papers prior to April 21 saying that AW was to have some custody of VW. MOO, just in case he didn't come home from Union Hill Road that morning, the same as JW. I'm thinking they were afraid 1 or 2 people couldn't tangle with CR, KR or FR and come out on without wounds.
There's no doubt in my mind, AW started this whole conspiracy, and GW fed into it.
Was AW attempting to insure that 5 of her Wagner's would get a full piece of FW's pie, and not their baby Mama's families?

Does anyone have a link to those custody documents? Photos published by a reporter maybe?

TIA

 

[RAISINISBACK]

We don’t know what he signed. AW put a form in front of him. Was it (fake) notarized at that point? How would GWIV know it was a forgery? Of course he would want custody to go to AW if anything were to happen to him. But why would he think anything would happen to him? He didn’t know what they were planning. Presumably.

ETA: He wasn’t going to Union Hill Road. Presumably.

Jake said he decided to go at the last minute to protect him from Billy. So why would he sign that custody document if he wasn't planning to go?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I fell behind with the trial and this thread and I’m trying to get caught up so please excuse me if this has been addressed and discussed but didn’t Jake say in his testimony that Billy pulled over and asked him if he was sure he wanted to go through with the murders? Did I understand that right? I can’t wrap my head around that. He pulled over on a dark road in the middle of the night popped down the back and was like “hey man you sure about this?” like even in the dead of night in an area that I assume is pretty secluded that’s a pretty big risk imo Am I missing something totally obvious? To me that screams that it was just him and Jake in the cab of the truck.

I agree with you.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If It was just he and Jake in the truck, why pull over and stop to ask? Why not just ask as you drove down the road?

To pause a minute to give Jake time to think about it?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

DBM

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I very much think JW thinks he "saved" S, or at least uses it justify the murders b/c he's not sorry. He's not once said it in a way that I believe that he is. Look at his story at DR's. Doesn't make sense.

They found a shoe print. Yet, it can't be placed on either of the three men's feet. What I find odd though is that three men enter the home, and instead of one each taking a room. They just stand there playing rent-a-guard, while it's JW who sees DR and HR through their closed bedroom doors, (he even peeks under the doors), and then they see him. He shoots DR in the head, through a closed door, and, with a light, as bright as that in the courtroom, he sees HMR, preparing to feed the baby. She looks up JW shoots her. Compassionately /s rearranges her body so the infant can seek to nurse (I guess he thought they're like pups and that deceased women continue to produce milk), he then proceeds past his armed rent-a-guards, to murder CR2. What is not right with this picture? Get in, get out, one man takes one room each and they're gone and out of there. I call that whole story B.S. does it matter to the jury that it's full of holes? Idk.

Yeah I smelled the BS 800 miles away. In fact I thought I was in the bull pen when I read that.

I completely agree with everything you said. There is not one word of that story true. He did not peek under doors, shoot people through doors, see Hannahs bedroom lit up as bright as the courtroom and if all three of them were in Danas why did only George leave a footprint?

It boggles the mind what some people will believe when they have pre conceived theories they cannot let go of.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

At the time of the murders, I'd see them all taking part, just as the did at CR1's. Someone had to shoot KR. Someone had to shoot FR and HHG. I do think JW shot HHG, b/c he stated not knowing the baby was between her and FR. So JW was the only one who murdered five people, while his dad and brother watched? I don't buy it. If all three there, all three shot. Did ballistics show that all three at DR's were likely shot by the same shooter? If so, then I don't think there was anyone else in the house.


There was only one set of shoe prints found in DR's trailer if I remember right but JW said his dad was standinding right beside GW4. Maybe that one set of shoe prints was JW's and he was the only one inside DR's trailer.

What i believe happened, and what they can prove, is two different things. Everyone still believes Casey Anthony is guilty but I think she was exonerated. I'm pretty darn sure that OJ is guilty, but the evidence wasn't there, so the law says otherwise.

Ballistics said Frankie, Hazel, Dana, Hannah and Chris jr were all shot with the same gun. Chris sr, Gary and Kenny were all shot with the same gun. Chris was shot in the arm with the SKS. That is the only iron clad facts in this case.

Jake claims he killed 5 and shot another. That matches up with ballistics. Jake said Billy killed three. That matches up with ballistics.

Those are the only solid, iron clad facts in this case, presented by Matt White, your favorite BCI guy.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I believe those two cases were miscarriages of justice. AJMO

Do you think GWIV will take the stand? My logical mind is saying no way but his lawyers said he was not there, he was home. That makes me think he might take the stand...a slim chance but a chance.

And what if he does and is much more believable to the jury that Jake and Angie is?