OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Charliegizmo49]

L

I see it differently because I think it all started and ended with Jake. I see those big smiles as a way to manipulate the judge who is now the most important person in his life after his attorneys. I see it as trying to curry favor with the judge so maybe his sentence is lighter or he can get extra favors.

I think Jake manipulated his entire family to get them all to do this. I think he used the Clarence R issue to do that along with other things. But it was all about Jake who was furious Hanna left him and wanted to see her dead before her being happy with another man.

That statement of Fred's about Jake having nothing to do with it makes me think that as far as the family is concerned it is still all about Jake.

He is a psychopath IMO.

JMO

Bump

 

[rsd1200]

There is a story, as told by Fredericka Wagner under Legends, on how the Flying W
Farms acquired Little Boy Blue.

This is a prime example of the working mind of a covert narcissist. They do not
understand the word no. They are entitled. Their children are brain washed and
taught from birth that they are entitled and superior to others. JMO

www.amha.org/docs/default-source/default-documents...flyingw_febmar2007.pdf

I've read that, and, it's kinda typical. If you want your stock to be the best you're prepared to pay for it if you have the cash. She probably made quite a lot of it back off of Blue Boy. From the little stud's notoriety in the show ring, which brought her farm's name in the spotlight, not to mention his progeny, which brought stud fees. It's just part of the dickering. The man didn't have to sell Blue. She just made him an offer he couldn't refuse. The lady knew he was a good stud and wanted him.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
I have thought of that scenario too. Especially with FW's statement to the press. Did they go enmasse to get the items at WallyWorld? Was it only one of them? Did they spread out and go to different Wallys? Idk. I've seen them pick up rats along with their targets, in order to protect their identity, til they get outed in discovery anyway. Many times they'll bond out very quickly, and get some sort of frivolous hand smack that never is fulfilled. They couldn't do that with JW if he is the one. They'd have to keep him in there. Was his call / text to JM that night, after a realization, that the smack talk had turned into reality, when he couldn't reach anyone at HMR's?

The pic in AK. There is another one, of G3 on a motorcycle, talking to JW. JW has his head down, shoulders a bit slumped. It does not look like a convo that he's enjoying. I wonder what their family dynamics are. I wonder what the entire family dynamics were like. I've a feeling that G3 might could be difficult to live with. Just a feeling. May mean nothing at all though.

And what motive would they all have to do it if not for Jake hating Hanna and wanting to get revenge on her for leaving him?

While Billy and Angie may have wanted to see their granddaughter, they didn't have to kill an entire family to do that. They could have maintained a good relationship with Hanna and accomplished the same thing. They could also have paid for an attorney for Jake to get joint custody. Joint custody is standard these days unless the other parent can prove there is child abuse involved. So Hanna could not have stopped Jake from getting joint custody if they went to court.

And I have a feeling that George couldn't give a flying flip whether he saw SW at all. He had his own son to worry about.

No, Jake wanted to hurt Hanna for leaving him so he decided he would kill her and everyone who was protecting her against him. He couldn't do it by himself so he manipulated his family into helping him.

JMO

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Completely agree. Jake is not naive and has not been sheltered. He manipulates
and destroys. JMO. He is incapable of loving another human being. It is an
act that he has mastered.

HMR was just a young girl that he thought he could control. As she grew, things
were changing. No longer was she willing to settle for less than an equal loving
relationship. Jake was spreading lies and untruths about the Rhodens. Jake would
not allow HMR to completely sever the relationship. JMO.

Grandpa & Grandma Wagner had enough influence to allow their grandson to
further his actions against the Rhodens. After all, Jake is entitled. JMO.

 

[Myland]

I personally am leaning toward the ex mistress or her boyfriend the used car lot owner. I am wondering if Reader got tired of her and fired her to get her out of the workplace so he didn't have to face her. Or maybe his wife found out and insisted the mistress had to go.

IMO the ex mistress, as his administrative assistant would have access to all the records and financial data. She would also know about the safe and his gambling due to their close relationship. She would also know about the loans from employees for the same reason.

To me it looks like Reader joined thousands of other people having affairs in the workplace and like thousands of others it did not turn out well for him.

There is an old saying "You don't get your honey where you get your money." Good advice that Reader should have taken.

If the W's are involved I feel that the information came from the ex mistress or someone in his own office.
JMO

It could have been one of them and they probably weren’t expecting to be named in the subpoena. Jmo

 

[pepper 34]

And what motive would they all have to do it if not for Jake hating Hanna and wanting to get revenge on her for leaving him?

While Billy and Angie may have wanted to see their granddaughter, they didn't have to kill an entire family to do that. They could have maintained a good relationship with Hanna and accomplished the same thing. They could also have paid for an attorney for Jake to get joint custody. Joint custody is standard these days unless the other parent can prove there is child abuse involved. So Hanna could not have stopped Jake from getting joint custody if they went to court.

And I have a feeling that George couldn't give a flying flip whether he saw SW at all. He had his own son to worry about.

No, Jake wanted to hurt Hanna for leaving him so he decided he would kill her and everyone who was protecting her against him. He couldn't do it by himself so he manipulated his family into helping him.

JMO

I think the W's had a motive that was related to a business venture with the R's that went sour. It would have ended, imo, with GW3 saying to Chris Sr,
"You owe us "blank" amount of money because..."
...with Chris Sr answering,
"We owe you nothing because..."
So, hate and anger already existed, imo, before S became an issue.
When Hanna was seen to be seriously moving on with her life, then S became an issue. A pawn that could be used by the W's to stick it to the R's... revenge even if not the money "owed" ... and no way were the R's going to win this one. And with Jake in the background with his own motivations thrown it for good measure; constantly piling more wood on the fire with his stories about what Hanna's doing now... and then yesterday... and last week... and, look, she's really not coming back to me and another guy is going to be S's father and now Chris Sr bought a place and moved Hanna into it and stole that ace card from my hands... and he's practically stealing your grandchild from you both. The R's checkmated the W's but they were busy planning and, in their minds, would have the last laugh. Make fools out of them, huh? They didn't think so.... wasn't going to happen.
So, I think hate, anger and revenge was building for some time before S became an issue but when she did come one, then came the notary farce in preparation of the day that had been planned long before, imo.
The other business motivation was older imo but simmering all the while... Jake and his wants and needs and complaints about things not going his way was the match that lit the fuse, imo, and created all the fuel to motivate the whole family to finally "get even."

(... and Chris Sr putting money down on that "new" house could have been another rage inducing move on his part for another reason than S having a nice place to live. It might be Chris Sr did agree he owned the W's some amount of money and had been promising for a long time to pay it but never seemed to be flush enough to do so. Then what does he do? He puts $30,000 down on a "new" house when he said he had nothing to pay and no way to get the money he owed to the W's.) Speculation only!

All written in the above comment is speculation and opinion on my part.

 

[rsd1200]

And what motive would they all have to do it if not for Jake hating Hanna and wanting to get revenge on her for leaving him?

While Billy and Angie may have wanted to see their granddaughter, they didn't have to kill an entire family to do that. They could have maintained a good relationship with Hanna and accomplished the same thing. They could also have paid for an attorney for Jake to get joint custody. Joint custody is standard these days unless the other parent can prove there is child abuse involved. So Hanna could not have stopped Jake from getting joint custody if they went to court.

And I have a feeling that George couldn't give a flying flip whether he saw SW at all. He had his own son to worry about.

No, Jake wanted to hurt Hanna for leaving him so he decided he would kill her and everyone who was protecting her against him. He couldn't do it by himself so he manipulated his family into helping him.

JMO

Why didn't he just go to court and get custody then? Father's are allowed to want joint custody, or custody. He was basically already enjoying joint. If he were grandmother's pet, then she could front him the money, it's not that expensive, and if he'd done it prior to the move, to the new trailer, there's a good chance he'd won, joint, if not primary, custody, if he'd dropped a dime on the grow ops. They were all living on the same strip of CR1's land, in the one trailer that went to FR. Children under the age of 13, get the courts attention. Not as much at 13 or older unless there is physical/sexual abuse. That was the way to go about vengeance. Shut down their op, and try to get custody of S. I don't think that JW manipulated G3. I think that G3 may have been the driving force, b/c the Rs had something over on the Ws, or business bridges got burned and all was not copacetic afterwards. I keep thinking about the undercurrent of drugs. Saying custody plays a role, may just be LE's way to calm the public til that "undercurrent" comes out.

What if G4 blamed HMR for breaking up his marriage? HMR got wheels and Ls around Nov 2014, (Twitter ) and it wasn't much longer after that til both girls were gone.

What if CR1 had dirt on the Ws , and that kept JW, from going to court? What if it was bad enough to make them want to kill them all, so it never got out?

If they were really worried about getting all who knew stuff, they'd have killed LM too. He ran his mouth, 100 mph, from day one. Within 48 hours, he told reporters of at least 4-5 different folks who may have reason to kill the family.

 

[Trudie]

Why didn't he just go to court and get custody then? Father's are allowed to want joint custody, or custody. He was basically already enjoying joint. If he were grandmother's pet, then she could front him the money, it's not that expensive, and if he'd done it prior to the move, to the new trailer, there's a good chance he'd won, joint, if not primary, custody, if he'd dropped a dime on the grow ops. They were all living on the same strip of CR1's land, in the one trailer that went to FR. Children under the age of 13, get the courts attention. Not as much at 13 or older unless there is physical/sexual abuse. That was the way to go about vengeance. Shut down their op, and try to get custody of S. I don't think that JW manipulated G3. I think that G3 may have been the driving force, b/c the Rs had something over on the Ws, or business bridges got burned and all was not copacetic afterwards. I keep thinking about the undercurrent of drugs. Saying custody plays a role, may just be LE's way to calm the public til that "undercurrent" comes out.

What if G4 blamed HMR for breaking up his marriage? HMR got wheels and Ls around Nov 2014, (Twitter ) and it wasn't much longer after that til both girls were gone.

What if CR1 had dirt on the Ws , and that kept JW, from going to court? What if it was bad enough to make them want to kill them all, so it never got out?

If they were really worried about getting all who knew stuff, they'd have killed LM too. He ran his mouth, 100 mph, from day one. Within 48 hours, he told reporters of at least 4-5 different folks who may have reason to kill the family.

Great post, imo. I’ve said before, I think JW could have easily won primary custody, via family court. Idk if the new trailer home would have made a difference.
The court sure had no hesitation granting him custody after HR died, imo. The court could have placed S in state custody or with a distant relative. They found no reason to deem him incapable of caring for S. JMO, of course.
I’m speculating, if JW & his family so desperately wanted full custody of S, any info the W’s had & viewed to be questionable, regarding S, was well documented. Custody battles tend to be very brutal. IMO

MOO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Why didn't he just go to court and get custody then? Father's are allowed to want joint custody, or custody. He was basically already enjoying joint. If he were grandmother's pet, then she could front him the money, it's not that expensive, and if he'd done it prior to the move, to the new trailer, there's a good chance he'd won, joint, if not primary, custody, if he'd dropped a dime on the grow ops. They were all living on the same strip of CR1's land, in the one trailer that went to FR. Children under the age of 13, get the courts attention. Not as much at 13 or older unless there is physical/sexual abuse. That was the way to go about vengeance. Shut down their op, and try to get custody of S. I don't think that JW manipulated G3. I think that G3 may have been the driving force, b/c the Rs had something over on the Ws, or business bridges got burned and all was not copacetic afterwards. I keep thinking about the undercurrent of drugs. Saying custody plays a role, may just be LE's way to calm the public til that "undercurrent" comes out.

What if G4 blamed HMR for breaking up his marriage? HMR got wheels and Ls around Nov 2014, (Twitter ) and it wasn't much longer after that til both girls were gone.

What if CR1 had dirt on the Ws , and that kept JW, from going to court? What if it was bad enough to make them want to kill them all, so it never got out?

If they were really worried about getting all who knew stuff, they'd have killed LM too. He ran his mouth, 100 mph, from day one. Within 48 hours, he told reporters of at least 4-5 different folks who may have reason to kill the family.

It is possible that George blamed Hanna for breaking up his own marriage. That is a real possibility in fact if Hanna had a car and the two girls were going round together.

But think of a break up or divorce rsd. There is a lot anger and bitterness in them. Enough that spouses are killed every day over it.

JMO

 

[almond]

I see it differently because I think it all started and ended with Jake. I see those big smiles as a way to manipulate the judge who is now the most important person in his life after his attorneys. I see it as trying to curry favor with the judge so maybe his sentence is lighter or he can get extra favors.

I think Jake manipulated his entire family to get them all to do this. I think he used the Clarence R issue to do that along with other things. But it was all about Jake who was furious Hanna left him and wanted to see her dead before her being happy with another man.

That statement of Fred's about Jake having nothing to do with it makes me think that as far as the family is concerned it is still all about Jake.

He is a psychopath IMO.

JMO

Evil personalities usually have flying monkeys that they manipulate.
I hope this info is allowed.
What Flying Monkeys Do For Narcissists (And How To Disarm Them)

 

[rsd1200]

I think the W's had a motive that was related to a business venture with the R's that went sour. It would have ended, imo, with GW3 saying to Chris Sr,
"You owe us "blank" amount of money because..."
...with Chris Sr answering,
"We owe you nothing because..."
So, hate and anger already existed, imo, before S became an issue.
When Hanna was seen to be seriously moving on with her life, then S became an issue. A pawn that could be used by the W's to stick it to the R's... revenge even if not the money "owed" ... and no way were the R's going to win this one. And with Jake in the background with his own motivations thrown it for good measure; constantly piling more wood on the fire with his stories about what Hanna's doing now... and then yesterday... and last week... and, look, she's really not coming back to me and another guy is going to be S's father and now Chris Sr bought a place and moved Hanna into it and stole that ace card from my hands... and he's practically stealing your grandchild from you both. The R's checkmated the W's but they were busy planning and, in their minds, would have the last laugh. Make fools out of them, huh? They didn't think so.... wasn't going to happen.
So, I think hate, anger and revenge was building for some time before S became an issue but when she did come one, then came the notary farce in preparation of the day that had been planned long before, imo.
The other business motivation was older imo but simmering all the while... Jake and his wants and needs and complaints about things not going his way was the match that lit the fuse, imo, and created all the fuel to motivate the whole family to finally "get even."

(... and Chris Sr putting money down on that "new" house could have been another rage inducing move on his part for another reason than S having a nice place to live. It might be Chris Sr did agree he owned the W's some amount of money and had been promising for a long time to pay it but never seemed to be flush enough to do so. Then what does he do? He puts $30,000 down on a "new" house when he said he had nothing to pay and no way to get the money he owed to the W's.) Speculation only!

All written in the above comment is speculation and opinion on my part.

BUBM

I think that this all could be a possibility. The BUBM part, I've wondered too, if AW presented the document to her Mom, RN, and said, HMR went on and signed this, seeeee? But she is not up to getting out, or said you could just sign it and JW could run it by her place for her to sign, etc... We don't want to have to re-do this document. RN probably knew HMR well, and being it was all in the family, might have just went on and stamped it (I would have wanted to have HMR in front of me, or at least on vid chat, saying, yes, that's my sig on there...Yes, I know that's not the way it works, but folks do things for fam sometimes that crosses lines and yes, it ends up biting them in the rump sometimes, too).

As always, unless I've a link, it's my own 2¢.

 

[Betty P]

I see it differently because I think it all started and ended with Jake. I see those big smiles as a way to manipulate the judge who is now the most important person in his life after his attorneys. I see it as trying to curry favor with the judge so maybe his sentence is lighter or he can get extra favors.

I think Jake manipulated his entire family to get them all to do this. I think he used the Clarence R issue to do that along with other things. But it was all about Jake who was furious Hanna left him and wanted to see her dead before her being happy with another man.

That statement of Fred's about Jake having nothing to do with it makes me think that as far as the family is concerned it is still all about Jake.

He is a psychopath IMO.

JMO

Agree. He's a guy accustomed to getting his own way, doesn't like criticism or rejection and uses people to get what he wants. My thought when I saw him beaming at the judge was that he's "turning on the charm" hoping to make friends with him. Immediately flashed to Ted Bundy in the courtroom.

Also disturbing was his interview with the news media within weeks of the massacre, sounding sad and serious. A dedicated father, sad for the loss of his daughter's mother. Knowing all he had done. Ugh.

 

[OhioBlues]

I don't believe JW would have received shared or full custody if he went to court. He is charged with a sex crime against HR when she was a minor.

HR could have pointed that out to the judge and I think that Ohio law would have prevented JW from having any custody. Also, the judge is a mandated reporter so he would been required to inform the authorities and JW could have gone to jail. The R's may have told the W's upfront that if JW filed then they would report JW to the court.

JMO. MOO,

 

[Betty P]

I think the W's had a motive that was related to a business venture with the R's that went sour. It would have ended, imo, with GW3 saying to Chris Sr,
"You owe us "blank" amount of money because..."
...with Chris Sr answering,
"We owe you nothing because..."
So, hate and anger already existed, imo, before S became an issue.
When Hanna was seen to be seriously moving on with her life, then S became an issue. A pawn that could be used by the W's to stick it to the R's... revenge even if not the money "owed" ... and no way were the R's going to win this one. And with Jake in the background with his own motivations thrown it for good measure; constantly piling more wood on the fire with his stories about what Hanna's doing now... and then yesterday... and last week... and, look, she's really not coming back to me and another guy is going to be S's father and now Chris Sr bought a place and moved Hanna into it and stole that ace card from my hands... and he's practically stealing your grandchild from you both. The R's checkmated the W's but they were busy planning and, in their minds, would have the last laugh. Make fools out of them, huh? They didn't think so.... wasn't going to happen.
So, I think hate, anger and revenge was building for some time before S became an issue but when she did come one, then came the notary farce in preparation of the day that had been planned long before, imo.
The other business motivation was older imo but simmering all the while... Jake and his wants and needs and complaints about things not going his way was the match that lit the fuse, imo, and created all the fuel to motivate the whole family to finally "get even."

(... and Chris Sr putting money down on that "new" house could have been another rage inducing move on his part for another reason than S having a nice place to live. It might be Chris Sr did agree he owned the W's some amount of money and had been promising for a long time to pay it but never seemed to be flush enough to do so. Then what does he do? He puts $30,000 down on a "new" house when he said he had nothing to pay and no way to get the money he owed to the W's.) Speculation only!

All written in the above comment is speculation and opinion on my part.

I agree with most everything except the opposite about who owed money. GW3 and AW didn't have a pot to pee in, neither had jobs or much income. They were the ones who had a record of theft and ripping off people, employers and businesses. The only way they would have gotten money for an investment of some sort with CR1 would be if FW fronted the cash. Even if true, why would CR1 need money from FW? That opens a completely different discussion...

OTOH, the Rhodens had jobs, some income from selling a little MJ. CR1 certainly could have made enough money from selling MJ to get together the down payment on DR's new home.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I see it differently because I think it all started and ended with Jake. I see those big smiles as a way to manipulate the judge who is now the most important person in his life after his attorneys. I see it as trying to curry favor with the judge so maybe his sentence is lighter or he can get extra favors.

I think Jake manipulated his entire family to get them all to do this. I think he used the Clarence R issue to do that along with other things. But it was all about Jake who was furious Hanna left him and wanted to see her dead before her being happy with another man.

That statement of Fred's about Jake having nothing to do with it makes me think that as far as the family is concerned it is still all about Jake.

He is a psychopath IMO.

JMO

People don't forget about the statement that the Wagner's family made about if one was left out of jail they would try to get the others out of jail, Jake was smiling way to much in pretrial something about to happen! IMO.

 

[rsd1200]

Great post, imo. I’ve said before, I think JW could have easily won primary custody, via family court. Idk if the new trailer home would have made a difference.
The court sure had no hesitation granting him custody after HR died, imo. The court could have placed S in state custody or with a distant relative. They found no reason to deem him incapable of caring for S. JMO, of course.
I’m speculating, if JW & his family so desperately wanted full custody of S, any info the W’s had & viewed to be questionable, regarding S, was well documented. Custody battles tend to be very brutal. IMO

MOO

Even in the best of circumstances, visitation, and custodial issues, can be difficult. What gets me, is that they were already sharing every other week, and it had worked for a long time. So putting it down on a legal document shouldn't have been too grueling. Maybe uncomfortable during some parts, but not too very nasty. What changed?

DR gets a new homeplace for her, HMR, CR2, S, and the newborn? That may have put them on a more level playing field as far as HMR retaining full custody. It's still possible though, that JW may have gotten joint custody, and retained the every other week visitation arrangements, if he could show proof that they'd been doing that all along, anyway, and it had worked. They look at what is best for the child. Why would there be a big battle over what had been working?

I just think there's more.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Even in the best of circumstances, visitation, and custodial issues, can be difficult. What gets me, is that they were already sharing every other week, and it had worked for a long time. So putting it down on a legal document shouldn't have been too grueling. Maybe uncomfortable during some parts, but not too very nasty. What changed?

DR gets a new homeplace for her, HMR, CR2, S, and the newborn? That may have put them on a more level playing field as far as HMR retaining full custody. It's still possible though, that JW may have gotten joint custody, and retained the every other week visitation arrangements, if he could show proof that they'd been doing that all along, anyway, and it had worked. They look at what is best for the child. Why would there be a big battle over what had been working?

I just think there's more.

rsd where did it come from that Jake had shared custody? I know it was on a podcast but who said it? The W's or the R's?

 

[rsd1200]

I agree with most everything except the opposite about who owed money. GW3 and AW didn't have a pot to pee in, neither had jobs or much income. They were the ones who had a record of theft and ripping off people, employers and businesses. The only way they would have gotten money for an investment of some sort with CR1 would be if FW fronted the cash. Even if true, why would CR1 need money from FW? That opens a completely different discussion...

OTOH, the Rhodens had jobs, some income from selling a little MJ. CR1 certainly could have made enough money from selling MJ to get together the down payment on DR's new home.

JMO

Where did they get that farm, diesel trucks, four wheelers, dirt bikes, trailers, money for trips to AK, nice clothing, a yard full of Little Tikes play toys, feed for all of those animals (they were in good condition), build two new barns, one a stock barn, and put up fencing? I don't see FW funding all of that.

Same for Rs. You can't buy, and build, all of that with an old backhoe, and a job at BBL doing repairs and building railings and docks. All kinds of cars, his kids had nice cars, nice clothing, puts down $30k cash on a home for his ex-wife (ya don't see that often, even if there are kids involved), and takes care of the loan on the rest...

I think they both were in biz together and got along, til they didn't.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't believe JW would have received shared or full custody if he went to court. He is charged with a sex crime against HR when she was a minor.

HR could have pointed that out to the judge and I think that Ohio law would have prevented JW from having any custody. Also, the judge is a mandated reporter so he would been required to inform the authorities and JW could have gone to jail. The R's may have told the W's upfront that if JW filed then they would report JW to the court.

JMO. MOO,

If he and S's mother's relationship, were an issue to family court, he'd not have gotten custody of her after the murders.

 

[rsd1200]

rsd where did it come from that Jake had shared custody? I know it was on a podcast but who said it? The W's or the R's?

I kinda got it from the two parent's FBs before they were shuttered, that she there a LOT. JW had photos of her all over the place. Some of HMR's photos of her, I'm pretty sure, were of her at DefFrm. There was never any animosity on their FBs that I saw, either. They had a nickname for her. Don't know where it came from but it was cute. Then, in the interviews he's done, especially the last one, where he said that S was planned, I saw a lot of truth in it, then the podcast lawyers mentioned visitation was going pretty smooth but may have been not as comfortable of late. I'm just thinking there is more to this whole thing.