OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Trudie]

Oh, I’m more than stumped over (G). WTH? I thought, as you, did they use someone’s account to make purchases? That’s not so easily done, imo. But, I had the fleeting thought they could have, like you. I was thinking other than jewelry....more like cheap shoes, bug detectors, etc.
Here’s the prob w/that tho. IMO. You hack me, order a bunch of stuff I’ve never purchased from places I’ve never been & have it shipped to a dif physical addie then mine. Guess what? AX or my bank are all over this & you get nothing. I actually had this happen. AX legal department called to ask if I just purchased 5k in toys from a toy store.
Why? Because I’ve never purchased a toy using AX in 30 years. Boing. They overnight me a new card, file charges on the hacker.

Jmo

 

[Trudie]

From Section B, I like this part: ".... without the consent of, or beyond the scope of the express or implied consent of, the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, cable service, cable system, telecommunications device, telecommunications service, or information service or other person authorized to give consent.

(B)
Bolded above, because this is how I think, when in a relationship, the hacking partner seems to almost feel it is their "right" to hack. Many people respect other's privacy (no matter how close the relationship is or was) and it's understood or implied it's wrong to hack and spy through technical devices on an (ex) or current lover or friend, roommate, etc, and that it won't be done... because, all feelings or personal history set aside, it's against the law. No matter a person might have "lived with me"... "loved me and I loved them"... "we were engaged"... "but, we have a child together"... "I think I own them." If the spied upon person didn't give express permission to enter their computer or other, listed above, technical devices... Sorry, no; it's against the law. Period!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(G)
I think this refers to someone hacking someone else's computer in order to fraudulently obtain money (out of their bank account, for example.)
It's the part about obtaining property or services that stumps me. I don't understand what type of property or services they are referring to unless it's ordering items such as clothing, jewelry, etc. and ordering by way of hacking into someone else's computer. But... services? What kind of services?
And, since IANAL... I could be wrong on all of the above. Sometimes I think it takes a lawyer or a criminal to understand some things.
From G)
"... if unauthorized use of computer, cable, or telecommunication property is committed for the purpose of devising or executing a scheme to defraud or to obtain property or services, for obtaining money, property, or services by false or fraudulent pretenses..."

This stuff is hard to decipher. It helps me to compare the indictment to the actual law. If that makes sense.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Although I dont know any of either the accused or the victims, i do know in the spring of 2015 the company my husband worked for was hiring seasonal truck drivers to haul fertilizer, the two boys GW4 AND JW, applied, my husband gave them driving test, they said they had owned their own semi and were diesel mechanics. Nothing was ever said about why they werent driving there own truck anymore. They worked there until summer when the season was over and that was it. I do not have any links for this and since my husband told me it is considered rumor.

That would be about the time Hanna left Jake because he "worked too much" right? So a summer job for a few months is what Jake considers working too much?

JMO

 

[pepper 34]

I wondered if the “procuring” might be more enlisting the help of someone more sophisticated?
I’m on a lot of thoroughbred farms, in barns, offices & houses. They are “wired”, the know if a horse is peeing, if a farm hand is smoking or on his phone, etc. every move the horses make is captured. Since FW has high dollar horses & many barns, I’m thinking she has a state of art security system. Some knowledge might be from persons being familiar with such stuff. It may sound more sophisticated to me.....it’s a good day for me if I can log on.

Moo

Yes, could be more sophisticated... Here is the 20th charge:
"... in the state of Ohio, did unlawfully or purposely, intercept, or attempt to intercept, or procure another person to intercept, a wire, oral or electronic communication..."

So, it could be something fairly simple (a device that picks up cell phone calls when placed near the cell phone, itself) or more complicated (hacking into a person's entire computer system to read emails, for example) ...but, as you reasoned, was not an attempt to procure someone to become "friends for spying" on some SM forum. Not that I would put that past Jake for one minute but just that that doesn't seem to be related to what's referred in the wording of the indictments. I wish I had 2 computers so I could keep information at the ready to pull up and refer to and the other where I just read comments and respond.
PS... I pick option # "device to pick up cell phone communications." Do people who walk around and use Smart phones all day long to text and talk even write emails anymore? Probably not. Nobody I know does except for the older generation that I know and am part of.
JMO.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Could it be hacking random social media accounts to spread their (the W’s) narrative under other people’s names on sm? I’ve personally seen some strange accounts and adamant defense of the W’s from random sm accounts that just didn’t make sense. That all appeared to stop with a sudden halt upon the arrests as well. JMO.

I would say you could be right Mitten. I am sure the W's were trying to manipulate the people of Pike county in believing in their innocence. If they could get most people thinking they are innocent that could taint the jury pool if they were arrested.

JMO

 

[pepper 34]

This stuff is hard to decipher. It helps me to compare the indictment to the actual law. If that makes sense.

Yes, it makes lots of sense. The words "...beyond the scope of the expressed or implied consent of the owner..." was used in the indictment in count # 19. The wording means the same thing as the link you provided... and translates to the R's were hacked and the W's are charged with having done so.

 

[Trudie]

Yes, it makes lots of sense. The words "...beyond the scope of the expressed or implied consent of the owner..." was used in the indictment in count # 19. The wording means the same thing as the link you provided... and translates to the R's were hacked and the W's are charged with having done so.

Lol. This makes me so blurry eyed.
The part that grabs me is the continuity of “spying”. That’s why wonder if in part, it’s cable theft?

 

[pepper 34]

Forgive my ignorance in this case, I'm trying to catch up but did I read the defendants owned a horse farm? What kind of horses? I thought horses were not a profitable business unless you had winning race horses? Did I read they owned 1700 acres? I could be confusing this with another case, sorry... just wondering

dizzy... Read here. This MSM news article link is full of information and will answer your question(s.)

Fredericka Wagner: A look at her property and assets

 

[RAISINISBACK]

From Section B, I like this part: ".... without the consent of, or beyond the scope of the express or implied consent of, the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, cable service, cable system, telecommunications device, telecommunications service, or information service or other person authorized to give consent.

(B)
Bolded above, because this is how I think, when in a relationship, the hacking partner seems to almost feel it is their "right" to hack. Many people respect other's privacy (no matter how close the relationship is or was) and it's understood or implied it's wrong to hack and spy through technical devices on an (ex) or current lover or friend, roommate, etc, and that it won't be done... because, all feelings or personal history set aside, it's against the law. No matter a person might have "lived with me"... "loved me and I loved them"... "we were engaged"... "but, we have a child together"... "I think I own them." If the spied upon person didn't give express permission to enter their computer or other, listed above, technical devices... Sorry, no; it's against the law. Period!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(G)
I think this refers to someone hacking someone else's computer in order to fraudulently obtain money (out of their bank account, for example.)
It's the part about obtaining property or services that stumps me. I don't understand what type of property or services they are referring to unless it's ordering items such as clothing, jewelry, etc. and ordering by way of hacking into someone else's computer. But... services? What kind of services?
And, since IANAL... I could be wrong on all of the above. Sometimes I think it takes a lawyer or a criminal to understand some things.
From G)
"... if unauthorized use of computer, cable, or telecommunication property is committed for the purpose of devising or executing a scheme to defraud or to obtain property or services, for obtaining money, property, or services by false or fraudulent pretenses..."

Services could be paying your utility bills out of someone else's account. Like automatic billing of a cell phone or internet provider out of an account that is not yours.

JMo

 

[pepper 34]

Lol. This makes me so blurry eyed.
The part that grabs me is the continuity of “spying”. That’s why wonder if in part, it’s cable theft?

I see your point but the indictment states the offense took place in the state of Ohio. Wouldn't that stolen cable service have shut down when they moved to Alaska?

 

[ColMustard]

In the aerial pics of the back of DR's house, a homemade wooden ladder is seen under the satellite dish. I've always wondered if the killers brought that ladder, or at least used it, maybe to disable wifi before beginning. But then I've also considered the killers could have sent messages, on the victim's accounts, after the victims were dead.

Being a rural location, I doubt any of the crime scenes had cable service.

 

[pepper 34]

Services could be paying your utility bills out of someone else's account. Like automatic billing of a cell phone or internet provider out of an account that is not yours.

JMo

Thank you, Raisin. Yet another reason to be careful with personal information on line. If you didn't carefully check your bank expense sheet ever month this could go on for quite some time without a person noticing it.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

The more I think about the charges, I believe part is cable theft. Moo

I hardly think that in a 20+ count indictment any LE is going to be concerned for a second over theft of cable tv. Each and every time anyonyone illegally monitors fb or email or anything that comms over wifi it’s illegal use of cable property rights. Every word image and keystroke is sent via cable at some point. It’s the illegal use and monitoring of another’s accounts.

Or they monitored others accounts. And I’ll look at the statute and see if it’s been revised to include current technology. States rarely keep up

 

[ColMustard]

Thank you, Raisin. Yet another reason to be careful with personal information on line. If you didn't carefully check your bank expense sheet ever month this could go on for quite some time without a person noticing it.

Yep! My debit card got skimmed in Nov. They hit me 14 times in two days before I saw it, the bank stopped them on attempt number 15. The bank told me the wifi was hacked at one gas station and that's how the crooks got pin numbers.

 

[pepper 34]

Oh, I’m more than stumped over (G). WTH? I thought, as you, did they use someone’s account to make purchases? That’s not so easily done, imo. But, I had the fleeting thought they could have, like you. I was thinking other than jewelry....more like cheap shoes, bug detectors, etc.
Here’s the prob w/that tho. IMO. You hack me, order a bunch of stuff I’ve never purchased from places I’ve never been & have it shipped to a dif physical addie then mine. Guess what? AX or my bank are all over this & you get nothing. I actually had this happen. AX legal department called to ask if I just purchased 5k in toys from a toy store.
Why? Because I’ve never purchased a toy using AX in 30 years. Boing. They overnight me a new card, file charges on the hacker.

Jmo

OT: Yes, I've had my card # abused, too. I bought $800 worth of designer clothing online and had it shipped to a house out of state... except for years, as I showed my bank, I've been buying my clothes at the second hand store here in town. They kindly removed the charges immediately. And, as happened to Colmustard... (gas stations are notorious.) I've managed, somehow, to buy gas and other items at those gas stations all over my state 3 times while never leaving my home town. Again, the bank understood and there is a certain gas station here in town that I won't ever use again and I pay inside at the register no matter where I buy gas... and all fraudulent activity has since stopped.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you, Raisin. Yet another reason to be careful with personal information on line. If you didn't carefully check your bank expense sheet ever month this could go on for quite some time without a person noticing it.

Also Netflix or Hulu or any of a hundred others. Hulu is about 5.99 a month and Netflix about 11.99. That small of a charge may not be noticed for many months even years. Also if Chris or Dana's account was used they may not have paid attention to a 5.99 charge for Hulu or Netflix coming out because they may have assumed one of their kids signed up for it.
JMO

 

[ColMustard]

OT: Yes, I've had my card # abused, too. I bought $800 worth of designer clothing online and had it shipped to a house out of state... except for years, as I showed my bank, I've been buying my clothes at the second hand store here in town. They kindly removed the charges immediately. And, as happened to Colmustard... (gas stations are notorious.) I've managed, somehow, to buy gas and other items at those gas stations all over my state 3 times while never leaving my home town. Again, the bank understood and there is a certain gas station here in town that I won't ever use again and I pay inside at the register no matter where I buy gas... and all fraudulent activity has since stopped.

OT - I paid inside and still got skimmed.

Bank told me to run the debit card as 'credit', then no pin number is used.

Haven't been back to the skimmer station either.

 

[Gracie55]

I wondered if the “procuring” might be more enlisting the help of someone more sophisticated?
I’m on a lot of thoroughbred farms, in barns, offices & houses. They are “wired”, the know if a horse is peeing, if a farm hand is smoking or on his phone, etc. every move the horses make is captured. Since FW has high dollar horses & many barns, I’m thinking she has a state of art security system. Some knowledge might be from persons being familiar with such stuff. It may sound more sophisticated to me.....it’s a good day for me if I can log on.

Moo

You have a bunch of high tech gizmos to keep up, you have somebody to help you with it all.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm just saying that it could be that simple. JW could get HMR's passcode ,(for example), somehow, or have possibly guessed her password, combine that passcode, with a phone number, and/or email add, and that can get you into a lot of places sometimes.

Side Note:
I read a thread (now deleted) that was just about the faked Facebook accounts of HR. A few accounts were opened in her name after the murders and they were made to look like they were originally opened by her but they were discovered, obviously, and erased.

Point is, even though I'm sure the Wags didn't do this as they were much more sophisticated hackers, it's still very weird so just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Trudie]

In the aerial pics of the back of DR's house, a homemade wooden ladder is seen under the satellite dish. I've always wondered if the killers brought that ladder, or at least used it, maybe to disable wifi before beginning. But then I've also considered the killers could have sent messages, on the victim's accounts, after the victims were dead.

Being a rural location, I doubt any of the crime scenes had cable service.

Lol, sorry, by cable I include Dish & Direct.
The counts were discussing are very “broad”. So many things may be involved. Unlike a “murder” charge, which reveals a person died. Moo