OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

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  • #701
My opinion only...but....
This is GOLD!
LE/BCI could have easily and very quickly researched this ”document “ claim.
Meaning LE immediately verified document to be false, a forgery, a bold, huge yet blatant lie.
So, in my mind this is the most important piece of the chronology we know of at this time.
Very important as it shows the start of a plan, and those who participated. LE/BCI would have to be wondering ...WHY?
JW was interviewed, (video) mid May. No doubt this very important “Document” was discussed in great detail. The lack of filing in the court system, possibly a Notary Seal to indicate “authenticity” to untrained eyes, or those easily manipulated... this is where it all began to fall apart for the Wagners.
This custody document forged 19 days before the murders is the main reason I believe that Rita and Fred were in on planning the murders from the git go. Even if they did not pull the trigger they are equally as guilty of the murders as the other 4.<modsnipped rumor> This shows a pattern of lying to achieve what you want. I feel that once George rolls on everyone that we are going to see a murder charge for the two grannies. and most certainly for Fred.

JMO
 
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  • #702
He mentions shortly after she was born but doesn't state the hospital specifically. The good news would be if it happened at the hospital, it could be proven he was there personally by others that where present or video security. I still have him at hospital personally and putting up a crib with question marks for now.

"And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait."

Wasn't there a picture of JW standing beside HMR's hospital bed?
 
  • #703
Some really interesting info and thoughts on this thread.
A great group of WebSleuths
Random comments after catching up on reading:
All following is my humble opinion only -

Notary Public - (have had occasion to use NP many times, many different States over the years, simple transactions...) and every Notary
has had to keep a detailed log or journal of the “transactions” they have done when using the Notary Stamp. I believe detail includes fees collected. LE must have confiscated this log, and if not...they should.
It would provide some good time frame, chronology, if true and accurate. If not true and accurate, it would present a different story than
verbal claims.
Additionally, I wonder what Judge (name) ok’d this commission.

Tenacity of Lawyers in demanding - no restraints, shackles, cuffs, and insisting no permission to media to show accused in restraints
Also demand to allow accused to wear street clothing.
All are routine demands made by attorneys in death penalty cases.
It builds a paper trail and record in case of an appeal.
Some may say these demands also build a record to justify a change of venue for trial, due to special needs and additional personnel to accommodate or guarantee these “small” details/demands, making a PikeCo.venue unable to accommodate/finance (4 or 6 trials? *) equally.


The info on the film, BoondockSaints, is very interesting.
Much there to discuss. So many random clues.


* 4 or 6 individual Trials?
The Grannies, ( GreatGrannies to Sophie) may/may not go to trial, in my opinion, as Prosecutor, in their trials, may be forced to reveal information that prosecution would rather keep under wraps as long as possible.
I don’t know the law, but seems I had the impression those 2 would be required to go to trial sooner than the other 4 . Something different about their charges that the timing for speedy trial is different???
Anyone know for sure?
The grannies have the right to have speedy trials and Fred's Attorney James Owen told the Court that the defense wants a trial date set as soon as possible. Would have to check if Rita also wants a speedy trial.

The other 4 have waived their right to a speedy trial which is normal in cases that are this complicated and have such massive amounts of discovery evidence to go through.

Fredericka Wagner's attorney argues for full transcript of her grand jury testimony
 
  • #704
My guess, JW is full of chicken poo. There's nothing coming out of his mouth I'd believe at this point. JMO

It appears anything he said after the murders is definitely questionable to say the least. Based on what he said in public, I wonder how many times he fell over himself in police interviews...
 
  • #705
He mentions shortly after she was born but doesn't state the hospital specifically. The good news would be if it happened at the hospital, it could be proven he was there personally by others that where present or video security. I still have him at hospital personally and putting up a crib with question marks for now.

"And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait."
Isn't there a picture of SW w HR and KW at the hospital? Don't know if it's posted or postable here. I figured that's when he said the part about the hammer toe after bringing her to meet her new sister. Iirc
 
  • #706
The grannies have the right to have speedy trials and Fred's Attorney James Owen told the Court that the defense wants a trial date set as soon as possible. Would have to check if Rita also wants a speedy trial.

The other 4 have waived their right to a speedy trial which is normal in cases that are this complicated and have such massive amounts of discovery evidence to go through.

Fredericka Wagner's attorney argues for full transcript of her grand jury testimony

Their cases are not nearly as complicated as as the the other four, I would think. They should be quicker to resolve.
 
  • #707
  • #708
Isn't there a picture of SW w HR and KW at the hospital? Don't know if it's posted or postable here. I figured that's when he said the part about the hammer toe after bringing her to meet her new sister. Iirc
Do we know for certain that Jake brought S to the hospital? Or was she already there with Dana? We have only his word that he checked for a "hammer toe". Everyone who could verify that is dead and Hanna did not mention Jake being at the hospital on her FB. She just said she did want CG there. I had the feeling from her FB post when she said "everyone who is here is leaving now" that she meant Dana and CH.

I have tossed around the idea that SW was at Dana's that night and that Jake took her with him after he killed everyone. It would certainly explain why photos of SW at the hospital would be in the discovery. They would be checking for blood on her.

JMO
 
  • #709
  • #710
Their cases are not nearly as complicated as as the the other four, I would think. They should be quicker to resolve.
No not complicated at all compared to the 4. Fred isn't charged with anything except lying about the BP vests. If she's found not guilty of this charge, then the obstruction of justice charge would have to be dropped. The obstruction charge was tacked on but is obsolete if she really didn't lie.
I think her chances are good at gaining an acquittal with a Jury trial.
 
  • #711
My guess, JW is full of chicken poo. There's nothing coming out of his mouth I'd believe at this point. JMO

Referencing Sheriff Reader's statement about "all the lies they told us", JMO we really can't believe anything the W's say about timelines and activities prior to the murders. I'm assuming there's no truth in any of it and LE has had to build the actual timeline through other means - social media, interviews with Rhoden friends and family,cell phone pings, texts, etc.
 
  • #712
Do we know for certain that Jake brought S to the hospital? Or was she already there with Dana? We have only his word that he checked for a "hammer toe". Everyone who could verify that is dead and Hanna did not mention Jake being at the hospital on her FB. She just said she did want CG there. I had the feeling from her FB post when she said "everyone who is here is leaving now" that she meant Dana and CH.

I have tossed around the idea that SW was at Dana's that night and that Jake took her with him after he killed everyone. It would certainly explain why photos of SW at the hospital would be in the discovery. They would be checking for blood on her.

JMO
Sophie didn't go to the hospital on April 22nd, just the three who were at the crime scenes. I only know of Ruger's photos being a part of the discovery evidence.
Discovery evidence of Kylie and Brently's photos at the hospital could come out later, if the prosecution plans to use them.

....My 2 Cents....Maybe I missed something here.
 
  • #713
Do we know for certain that Jake brought S to the hospital? Or was she already there with Dana? We have only his word that he checked for a "hammer toe". Everyone who could verify that is dead and Hanna did not mention Jake being at the hospital on her FB. She just said she did want CG there. I had the feeling from her FB post when she said "everyone who is here is leaving now" that she meant Dana and CH.

I have tossed around the idea that SW was at Dana's that night and that Jake took her with him after he killed everyone. It would certainly explain why photos of SW at the hospital would be in the discovery. They would be checking for blood on her.

JMO
It was Jake if you look at the reflection off the glass that he snapped the picture of Hanna and the kids you can also see a necklace like the boondocks saints around his neck.
 
  • #714
Do we know for certain that Jake brought S to the hospital? Or was she already there with Dana? We have only his word that he checked for a "hammer toe". Everyone who could verify that is dead and Hanna did not mention Jake being at the hospital on her FB. She just said she did want CG there. I had the feeling from her FB post when she said "everyone who is here is leaving now" that she meant Dana and CH.

I have tossed around the idea that SW was at Dana's that night and that Jake took her with him after he killed everyone. It would certainly explain why photos of SW at the hospital would be in the discovery. They would be checking for blood on her.

JMO

I've always wondered if that was the case and her examination at the hospital is relevant. We need to fill in that part of the timeline.

Can someone tell me when Jake went to Hanna's to assemble the crib?
Anyone know the hospital where HMR gave birth to Kylie?

Relevant section of current timeline:

April 3, 2016

Fredericka Wagner and Rita Newcomb forged custody documents related to Sophia, daughter of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden

Billy Wagner to answer to charges for Rhoden, Gilley murders in Pike County
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"

Sunday, April 17, 2016

Hanna Rhoden gives birth to Kylie Rhoden
https://www.chillicothegazette.com/.../04/28/graves-my-wish-rhoden-babies/83652654/

Monday, April 20, 2016 - ?

Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.
From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>

Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - ?

Thursday, April 21, 2016

8am:
Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home

11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home


Friday, April 22, 2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, allegedly exchanges text messages with Dana. This information has never been confirmed by LE

[video=youtube;bf4ObgRJ_Xo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo[/video]

2 am: James Manley later told by LE that he received a text from Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden. LE has never confirmed this.

Pike County Murders: Father says it’s like ‘tearing the scabs off us’
 
  • #715
  • #716
This custody document forged 19 days before the murders is the main reason I believe that Rita and Fred were in on planning the murders from the git go. Even if they did not pull the trigger they are equally as guilty of the murders as the other 4.<modsnipped rumor>

JMO
Just to clarify, George IV will roll on the others? Do you think the prosecutors will accept a plea from any of them? I wonder if the defense teams are waiting for all the evidence to advise their clients. MOO, I agree George IV has the most to gain by deserting his family and taking a plea if he can.
 
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  • #717
  • #718
Those pictures are heartbreaking...

They really are. The murder plot was well underway when they were taken, Jake standing casually in the hospital room, snapping photos, knowing full well what was going to happen in a few days' time. It boggles the mind.
 
  • #719
Sophie didn't go to the hospital on April 22nd, just the three who were at the crime scenes. I only know of Ruger's photos being a part of the discovery evidence.
Discovery evidence of Kylie and Brently's photos at the hospital could come out later, if the prosecution plans to use them.

....My 2 Cents....Maybe I missed something here.
Didn't the discovery have something about photos of SW at the hospital or was that an article in MSM? I seem to remember something about that but cannot recall the exact place I read it.

JMO
 
  • #720
The grannies have the right to have speedy trials and Fred's Attorney James Owen told the Court that the defense wants a trial date set as soon as possible. Would have to check if Rita also wants a speedy trial.

The other 4 have waived their right to a speedy trial which is normal in cases that are this complicated and have such massive amounts of discovery evidence to go through.

Fredericka Wagner's attorney argues for full transcript of her grand jury testimony
To all those weighing in on Fredericka’s Charges, ty for the comments.
I tried to put all the multiple quotes here, but I can’t get it to work out right.
There are differences of opinion.
Please consider this, from the article linked above.
I do believe there is more to Fredericka’s Testimony and Charges against her than meets the eye.
Think about what Prosecution is saying here:
From link:

Wagner, who pleaded not guilty to all charges at her arraignment in November and was placed under house arrest, appeared before Judge Randy Deering on Thursday, where Wagner’s attorney James Owen argued that his client should be provided with a full transcript of her testimony before the grand jury.

Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said that is not typically handed over by prosecution without a court order.

“I believe the agreement today is that we will draft an order for the court which permits the state to transcribe the portion of testimony that relates to the perjury and then I believe that we will be briefing as to whether or not they are entitled to other portions of that testimony,” Canepa said.

Owen cited a rule and stated that the defendant is entitled to any written or recorded statements by the defendant including grand jury testimony by the defendant.

“Fredericka, because she is a decent person who is falsely accused of being on the wrong side of the law, testified at length before the grand jury before she hired me — I think for several hours,” Owen said. “And our position is we’re entitled to all her grand jury testimony.”

Owen said that the defense would like a trial date as soon as possible and asked that they be provided with all of Wagner’s testimony and not just the portion offered by the state. He also mentioned the context of the grand jury questions, stating that Wagner does not have good hearing and indicating that she may have had difficulty understanding the questions.

Canepa indicated that the state can have their brief on the matter filed by the end of the month.

The defense can then respond to the state’s brief prior to a ruling.
END

Prosecutor does not want to turn over FW full testimony before Grand Jury. Fredericka testified (per Owens admission) for several hours. Without an attorney. My opinion, FW mistakenly thought she was able to serve her own and her Families needs quite easily.
 
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