OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[IQuestion]

Maybe it was his color choice of his socks jmo

MYLAND I have to admit Junk's comment was "too flippant and arbitrary" for a man in his position. (Gosh, we agreed on something!) Maybe he needs a "PR" person to help him say something like, "His investigative style did not blend with ours." or "His reports had too many errors, not complete and failed to communicate with cooperating agencies." or how about, "No, comment. It is a personnel matter." .....But, "I can fire because I don't like the color of his _ _ _ _ _ _. (fill in the blanks)" would make me feel as if I was walking on egg shells every day I went to work. Uh, just not very diplomatic. IMO

 

[rsd1200]

MYLAND I have to admit Junk's comment was "too flippant and arbitrary" for a man in his position. (Gosh, we agreed on something!) Maybe he needs a "PR" person to help him say something like, "His investigative style did not blend with ours." or "His reports had too many errors, not complete and failed to communicate with cooperating agencies." or how about, "No, comment. It is a personnel matter." .....But, "I can fire because I don't like the color of his _ _ _ _ _ _. (fill in the blanks)" would make me feel as if I was walking on egg shells every day I went to work. Uh, just not very diplomatic. IMO

BUBM
No, it's not, but in fire-at-will states, ya hear that a lot.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Do you know if they regularly picked her up there? I had not heard this before. The spreadsheet would likely be more than a single date or event.

The excel spreadsheet with BBL, based on the image of court docs that floated before the details hit the media, showed this under the category of Billy's cell Tower records. It also included a calendar of March 2016 and April 2016 cell tower records. Could it be that Billy was hanging out around BBL doing surveillance on CSR?

Lmao you guys hadn’t heard the “I reckon we missed it by just hours” when they picked her up the night before okkkkkk

 

[Chelly]

Sure looks that way.

I'm still disturbed about the Boondocks Saints movie having scenes where the killers shot victims in the eye, then placed coins on top. How long have we been debating about why so many victims were shot in the eye? These murders were somewhat ritualistic. JMO

So, who else feels compelled to view Boondock Saints now???

 

[IQuestion]

Lmao you guys hadn’t heard the “I reckon we missed it by just hours” when they picked her up the night before okkkkkk

SinS (Is that ok to shorten your moniker? Sleuthinsleuther is so long to type.) Yes we read the article in which JW said he picked her up the night before. Then there were other articles that stated HMR dropped off S the day before. Even another that claimed JW appeared with "forged docs" in order to pick up the child......still a little confusing for me.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

SinS (Is that ok to shorten your moniker? Sleuthinsleuther is so long to type.) Yes we read the article in which JW said he picked her up the night before. Then there were other articles that stated HMR dropped off S the day before. Even another that claimed JW appeared with "forged docs" in order to pick up the child......still a little confusing for me.

No I never read that HMR dropped her off. It’s not true. The media reported that JW picked her up the night before (one day earlier than usual)

 

[rsd1200]

No I never read that HMR dropped her off. It’s not true. The media reported that JW picked her up the night before (one day earlier than usual)

However, the week before the killings, Rhoden dropped off S on Friday, April 15, Wagner said. He was to return the toddler to her mom the following Friday, which was April 22 – the day the bodies were discovered.

Pike County: Custody battle plays role in Rhoden family massacre

 

[Tiff23fr]

No I never read that HMR dropped her off. It’s not true. The media reported that JW picked her up the night before (one day earlier than usual)

I have read both so remain uncertain of how it really happened. The consistency between the two seems to be she was to go back home Friday. That still doesn't seem to fit missing it by hours because he states return her Friday evening, not Friday morning. -my opinion

Angela's Version:
Rather, Angela Wagner said the couple wanted to legally formalize their agreed-upon shared custody arrangement. After they split up, each parent had custody of Sophia for one week, usually alternating each Saturday.

However the week before the killings, Rhoden dropped Sophia off on Friday, April 15, Wagner said. He was to return the towheaded toddler to her mom the following Friday, which was April 22 – the day the bodies were discovered.

Why were properties searched in mass-killing probe? Owners say they don't know

Jakes version:
Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours."
Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

 

[Cool Cats]

Black Berry Message?
BBM
That is when we bold something in your post in order to draw attention to to the part we are answering.

Thankx raisin! Cool Cats has plenty to bold. Just have to figure out how to do it...!!

 

[Dudly]

An example how a jury can get tainted:

By Nancy Bowman DDN
Contributing Writer
TROY – A rare glimpse inside jury deliberations unfolded Friday in a Miami County courtroom where a judge heard testimony on a complaint that the jury foreman in a 2014 murder trial told others in deliberations that he had never seen the accused in the church that both men said they attended.
The evidentiary hearing on the claim of juror misconduct in the murder trial of Patrick McGail of Troy was ordered in November by Judge Walter Rice in United States District Court in Dayton. McGail was one of three young men convicted in the 2013 shooting death of Nathan Wintrow.
If the claims are found to have basis, a new trial could be ordered.
Lawyers for McGail, who is serving 24 years to life for murder, aggravated robbery and aggravated burglary, claimed in the federal court action he was deprived of his constitutional rights to an impartial jury and to confront evidence against him when the juror allegedly commented about not seeing McGail or his family in church. McGail in his testimony talked about his family and their church activities.
“My decision was influenced to vote ‘guilty’ when the jury foreman … told the jury that he goes to St. Patrick’s church the same church that McGail testified going to and that he had never seen Patrick or his family at that church, so McGail must be lying,” juror Kylie Spiers-Kautz wrote in the affidavit, according to the federal court’s ruling. “This information influenced me to not believe Patrick’s testimony.”
Rice said the evidentiary hearing should look at what the jury foreperson said about McGail and/or his family’s church involvement and its impact on the jury. Rice said a hearing had to be held within 90 days and asked to be notified of the hearing results.
Common Pleas Judge Stacy Wall held the evidentiary hearing on the limited issue of the alleged statement . She, prosecutors and lawyers for McGail heard testimony from 11 of the 12 jurors. A recorded telephone discussion about the deliberations between Jim Taylor, a prosecutor’s investigator, and the 12th juror, who was in Florida, was included in evidence Wall will consider. She will file a decision later.
Westgerdes testified that he did comment on McGail and church. “I just made a one-time statement, he hadn’t been in church lately.” He further said that those jurors who discussed his comment “all agreed what happened a long time ago didn’t pertain to when this happened,” Westgerdes said. Trial testimony dealt with McGail’s church activity when he was younger.Spiers-Kautz and foreman David Westgerdes testified extensively about what was and was not said and the tone of deliberations.
Spiers-Kautz said Westgerdes wouldn’t ask questions she had to Judge Christopher Gee and ignored her. Westgerdes said the church attendance statement “just kept ringing in my head.” She said later, though, that during the polling of each juror on their verdict that she wanted to say, “not guilty” but didn’t have the courage.
Prosecutor Tony Kendell questioned Spiers-Kautz about the affidavit she said was drawn up at the office of McGail’s then defense lawyer Christopher Bucio. Kendell questioned her about her participation in a post-trial rally at the courthouse alleging injustice and phone and text records showing she had 14 telephone conversations with Bucio and at least 179 text messages in the weeks following the trial and the discussion of the affidavit.
The other nine jurors were asked if they followed the trial judge’s instructions to consider only evidence heard in the courtroom and whether they heard the foreman’s comment about the church attendance. Several said they didn’t hear any such comment while the others who did said it didn’t influence their decision to convict.
Those jurors also said they didn’t witness any bullying in the jury room nor did they remember the foreman not sending questions raised by jurors to the judge for answers.
Defense lawyer Eric Eckes asked jurors if their recollection of deliberations had faded with the passing of more than four years. He and Kendell questioned differences in earlier statements and testimony of both Westgerdes and Spiers-Kautz.
The affidavit claiming juror misconduct was filed as part of motions with the local court after the trial and was included in decisions by both the local court and the 2nd District Court of Appeals to uphold the conviction.
Troy police said Wintrow died after being shot in October 2013 in his home on Canal Street in Troy. Also convicted in the death were Brandon Terrel, who was sentenced to 14 years, and Jason Sowers, who shot Wintrow and was sentenced to 18 years to life. They testified against McGail.

 

[Puzzles8]

Someone is going to need to help me out here. There seem to be 3 versions of the exchange of SW between JW and HMR.
SinS says BBL, Tiff23fr gives the conflicting quotes given by JW and AW.
As I understand it, BBL is a campground that CRsr and FR worked at (full time?). How does the exchange of SW between JW and HMR tie in to BBL?

 

[FonescaFan]

I think the pagan, etc... imagery comes in from the movie(s) and other interests. There are folks, who do mix ideologies in the region. It's not a mixture that I see, in the Ws. To me, they've developed some sort of twisted ideology that is giving them justification to commit murder (and I may be overthinking this). I also must say that I've wondered if the mother/daughter murder, in Jan 2016, could have been them. Practice run, and taking out a drug dealer. Just some thoughts, after a comfort drink or two.

As for the A.A., that is a thought. JW looked pekid in his earlier photos. Could just be anemic though.

Rsd1200, I’ve also been thinking the W4 must have had previous experience. I can’t prove it, but hitting 4 locations in one night wasn’t beginners luck. MOO.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

D

 

[Knuckles]

Hi Knuckles.
I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying you think the W's are innocent? Or guilty?

Hi raisinisback others here post innocent or guilt i wont do that until i see it all. i stated what type of people who may have done this its noted in my other post i just wanted everyone who stated quilty already as you have with the wags and the mom ect but "thats your right" but try to put yourself in the shoes (pun intended) of those who were found quilty and later proven innocent thats all "devils advacate" urban dictionary meaning #2 im just thinking how lawyers will point to everything and body except the clients. I like facts! a comment of (lazer focus) from dewine then he hangs up the phone? dewine said this for a reason maybe if he would have made public just one or two reasons why then maybe this would have been colaborated by others 2 years ago and the quilty would be on death row on this date. Jmo. Whew! good thing i did the jmo i dont want get in trouble. thanks everybody
Ps: i like mylands post they seem to be facts no judgments (yet) you rock myland. thanks

 

[Puzzles8]

Hi raisinisback others here post innocent or guilt i wont do that until i see it all. i stated what type of people who may have done this its noted in my other post i just wanted everyone who stated quilty already as you have with the wags and the mom ect but "thats your right" but try to put yourself in the shoes (pun intended) of those who were found quilty and later proven innocent thats all "devils advacate" urban dictionary meaning #2 im just thinking how lawyers will point to everything and body except the clients. I like facts! a comment of (lazer focus) from dewine then he hangs up the phone? dewine said this for a reason maybe if he would have made public just one or two reasons why then maybe this would have been colaborated by others 2 years ago and the quilty would be on death row on this date. Jmo. Whew! good thing i did the jmo i dont want get in trouble. thanks everybody
Ps: i like mylands post they seem to be facts no judgments (yet) you rock myland. thanks

Knuckles, I really appreciate your honesty.
I have joined W/S in recent months. I am continually amazed with the intelligence and factually based posts these members make. Trust me, members of this forum did not come to these conclusions lightly or quickly, without a lot of fact or consideration of opposing opinions. Devils advocate has played out many times here on these threads, that's how many of the best conclusions were arrived at. But, I emphasize they have been rehashed many times over the past (almost) 3 years.
There are some members that have been faithfully posting and sleuthing to this thread for almost 3 years. I have tried to go back and read the previous 41 threads and I just couldn't do it. It would take several days to do that. I read 1-15 and then about 34 or so on.
To understand the the strength and conviction of their/my belief of the W4's guilt, you would need to really read the whole forum from thread 1 and watch the pieces that slowly came together. I will also say that I feel there are some posters that still are unsure of the W4's guilt, and I think they feel respected on this forum. We might not always agree with their thoughts, but we all learn things through a respectful exchange of ideas.
Welcome and keep on sleuthing!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thankx raisin! Cool Cats has plenty to bold. Just have to figure out how to do it...!!

BBM
Just have to figure out how to do it...!!
Cool cats run your mouse over the part you wish to bold and turn it blue, then click the B at the top of your post to bold it.

Cool Cats has plenty to bold.
Party on Cool Cats!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 237253]

His arrogance might be his biggest downfall at trial..He seems to think he's smarter then the average Joe but i'll stick to what his neighbor on Peterson said about him "They're not the brightest"...and "They're sloppy mechanics"...Obviously they were sloppy committing these murders and their neighbor was dead on with that statement.

I didn't think they were sloppy until I watched that Boondock Saints movie. Yesterday I posted the script for a scene in the movie where an assassin enters a home and kills everyone inside including a dog.

After he kills everyone he drags their bodies to the front of the house leaving streaks of blood as he goes, he then takes a knife and begins to cut at the carpet to take the blood soaked portions.

Once he's gathered everything it's all thrown into a van and driven to a dumpster to be incinerated.

Theory is the W4 tried deploying these tactics with CSR and G. Not realizing that real life you'd have to account for all the blood, brain matter and skull fragments. This is theory on why they were sloppy and jmo.

 

[Puzzles8]

I didn't think they were sloppy until I watched that Boondock Saints movie. Yesterday I posted the script for a scene in the movie where an assassin enters a home and kills everyone inside including a dog.

After he kills everyone he drags their bodies to the front of the house leaving streaks of blood as he goes, he then takes a knife and begins to cut at the carpet to take the blood soaked portions.

Once he's gathered everything it's all thrown into a van and driven to a dumpster to be incinerated.

Theory is the W4 tried deploying these tactics with CSR and G. Not realizing that real life you'd have to account for all the blood, brain matter and skull fragments. This is theory on why they were sloppy and jmo.

But weren't CRsr and GR moved to the bedroom? I would think that would be the opposite direction of the front door.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hi raisinisback others here post innocent or guilt i wont do that until i see it all. i stated what type of people who may have done this its noted in my other post i just wanted everyone who stated quilty already as you have with the wags and the mom ect but "thats your right" but try to put yourself in the shoes (pun intended) of those who were found quilty and later proven innocent thats all "devils advacate" urban dictionary meaning #2 im just thinking how lawyers will point to everything and body except the clients. I like facts! a comment of (lazer focus) from dewine then he hangs up the phone? dewine said this for a reason maybe if he would have made public just one or two reasons why then maybe this would have been colaborated by others 2 years ago and the quilty would be on death row on this date. Jmo. Whew! good thing i did the jmo i dont want get in trouble. thanks everybody
Ps: i like mylands post they seem to be facts no judgments (yet) you rock myland. thanks

I sifted through what little evidence we had long ago and came to the conclusion that the W's are guilty. That is just my opinion.

The posters on this forum like to deal in facts. They do tolerate "rumors" if it is made plain that it is a rumor and not fact.

We on here are not the jury, we are not the defense attorneys, we are not the prosecutors and we are not the judge. We are posters who come here every day to discuss in a friendly and considerate way the evidence and articles in MSM. What we think or what we say is not going to influence any part of these trials.

OTOH if someone on this forum from the Pike County area is chosen to be a juror in this trial I would expect them to disclose that they have been on this forum and recuse themselves posthaste.

Everyone on here has came to their own conclusion about the guilt or innocence of the suspects as I have. That is their right and mine. To single me out is not fair as I feel it is my right to state my opinion on here just like anyone else as long as I stay within TOS.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Knuckles, I really appreciate your honesty.
I have joined W/S in recent months. I am continually amazed with the intelligence and factually based posts these members make. Trust me, members of this forum did not come to these conclusions lightly or quickly, without a lot of fact or consideration of opposing opinions. Devils advocate has played out many times here on these threads, that's how many of the best conclusions were arrived at. But, I emphasize they have been rehashed many times over the past (almost) 3 years.
There are some members that have been faithfully posting and sleuthing to this thread for almost 3 years. I have tried to go back and read the previous 41 threads and I just couldn't do it. It would take several days to do that. I read 1-15 and then about 34 or so on.
To understand the the strength and conviction of their/my belief of the W4's guilt, you would need to really read the whole forum from thread 1 and watch the pieces that slowly came together. I will also say that I feel there are some posters that still are unsure of the W4's guilt, and I think they feel respected on this forum. We might not always agree with their thoughts, but we all learn things through a respectful exchange of ideas.
Welcome and keep on sleuthing!

Puzzles8 thank you so much for putting into words that which I am too tired to do. You are absolutely right. You always have such amazing insight and you have a great way with words.

Those of us on here who believe the W's guilty came to this conclusion after traveling a long hard road of endless discussions and limitless arguments for and against and everything in between. As Dudly said we have cussed and discussed everything under the sun in the almost 3 years we have been on here. In the end it all came down to the W's.

For those of you who believe the W's are innocent and for those of you who want to wait until the trials to voice an opinion I look forward to reading your posts.

JMO