OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks, I'll try to find the link for the April 15 date given by the W's for when HR dropped off Sophia. I'm specifying that info in the timeline - events that the W's allege certain things happened. JMO, as the hearings and trials move forward, I think a lot of that info will be proven false, so it seems prudent to note which facts in the timeline were provided by W's.

I agree. Those things which only the W's have verified should be marked as such in some way.

Thanks Betty for all your work!!!!!!

 

[Julia966]

Help y'all, lol.... I still don't see it.... where exactly, and in which pic, is the reflection? Not enough coffee yet, or I just can't see today.... many thanks!!!

The first picture looks like it is of Jake taking a picture of the picture on another phone. So I see Jake off to the right in the photo, and the reflection of his hand and upper chest in the reflection. At least, I think that's what I'm seeing.

I don't see a necklace, though.

 

[Cool Cats]

My opinion only.
I’ve thought a lot about the infant, babies/toddler. The fact that mercifully they were not harmed also. It finally occurs to me that although they were not intentionally harmed, neither were they kept totally safe. I have hardened my opinion, and I don’t think the killers of the adults cared if the children died in the interim, the incalculable period of time between the acutual murders and the children being found.

Yes. Sheriff Reader said the babies, especially the 4 day old, could have died if they had been found later.
Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That's an odd letter. Usually established newspapers call and talk to the sender before publishing a letter. Just a verification and consent thing. It seems odd some person in Indiana would know so much about the care the kids were getting and would be so concerned they would write an LTTE to a newspaper in another state. Agree, someone in the W family was probably behind this, but how did they verify sender info to the newspaper? Maybe a friend or someone who belonged to their church?

Or relative.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I am not sure if we have posted this letter to the editor on here before but I always thought Angela wrote it and put a fake name to it.

LETTER: Rhoden children not in danger; sheriff is wrong

JMO

The signer of the letter shows up in white pages, Facebook, etc. I think he’s a real person with an opinion.

 

[AdamsCounty]

The Waggies are going down

 

[buttonbaby]

The first picture looks like it is of Jake taking a picture of the picture on another phone. So I see Jake off to the right in the photo, and the reflection of his hand and upper chest in the reflection. At least, I think that's what I'm seeing.

I don't see a necklace, though.

Thank you Julia!!! I can see exactly what you mention, but no necklace either.... thanks again.

 

[Tiff23fr]

The first picture looks like it is of Jake taking a picture of the picture on another phone. So I see Jake off to the right in the photo, and the reflection of his hand and upper chest in the reflection. At least, I think that's what I'm seeing.

I don't see a necklace, though.

I don't see a necklace. I thought it might be CH to the right by the bed. The individual also appears to be wearing a hospital band similar to the one on HR wrist.

I know we all think different things for different reasons, but I'm not 100% ready to believe it is fact that Jake was at the hospital and HR let him pull that sock off to check toes. I just can't find anything public, at least yet, to support him being there. S could have been brought over by anyone.

There is too much contradiction or space between (All is well- nothing was amiss, custody was amicable, Jake gets to come to the hospital, and the possible rumor Jake put together a crib, etc) and (there was a falling out, a fight between BW and CSR, tense custody battle with 500+ text messages seeming to be in discovery, etc)

 

[buttonbaby]

I don't see a necklace. I thought it might be CH to the right by the bed. The individual also appears to be wearing a hospital band similar to the one on HR wrist.

I know we all think different things for different reasons, but I'm not 100% ready to believe it is fact that Jake was at the hospital and HR let him pull that sock off to check toes. I just can't find anything public, at least yet, to support him being there. S could have been brought over by anyone.

There is too much contradiction or space between (All is well- nothing was amiss, custody was amicable, Jake gets to come to the hospital, and the possible rumor Jake put together a crib, etc) and (there was a falling out, a fight between BW and CSR, tense custody battle with 500+ text messages seeming to be in discovery, etc)

Yes, the more I look, it seems to me the person on the right in the reflection is CH.... there's a definite resemblance to other pics of him I've seen.

 

[Cool Cats]

To all those weighing in on Fredericka’s Charges, ty for the comments.
I tried to put all the multiple quotes here, but I can’t get it to work out right.
There are differences of opinion.
Please consider this, from the article linked above.
I do believe there is more to Fredericka’s Testimony and Charges against her than meets the eye.
Think about what Prosecution is saying here:
From link:

Wagner, who pleaded not guilty to all charges at her arraignment in November and was placed under house arrest, appeared before Judge Randy Deering on Thursday, where Wagner’s attorney James Owen argued that his client should be provided with a full transcript of her testimony before the grand jury.

Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said that is not typically handed over by prosecution without a court order.

“I believe the agreement today is that we will draft an order for the court which permits the state to transcribe the portion of testimony that relates to the perjury and then I believe that we will be briefing as to whether or not they are entitled to other portions of that testimony,” Canepa said.

Owen cited a rule and stated that the defendant is entitled to any written or recorded statements by the defendant including grand jury testimony by the defendant.

“Fredericka, because she is a decent person who is falsely accused of being on the wrong side of the law, testified at length before the grand jury before she hired me — I think for several hours,” Owen said. “And our position is we’re entitled to all her grand jury testimony.”

Owen said that the defense would like a trial date as soon as possible and asked that they be provided with all of Wagner’s testimony and not just the portion offered by the state. He also mentioned the context of the grand jury questions, stating that Wagner does not have good hearing and indicating that she may have had difficulty understanding the questions.

Canepa indicated that the state can have their brief on the matter filed by the end of the month.

The defense can then respond to the state’s brief prior to a ruling.
END

Prosecutor does not want to turn over FW full testimony before Grand Jury. Fredericka testified (per Owens admission) for several hours. Without an attorney. My opinion, FW mistakenly thought she was able to serve her own and her Families needs quite easily.

There are 2 charges: Perjury and Obstruction of Justice. The perjury is Fred's alleged lying about the BP vests. Nothing has come out yet to show it's anything more than her testimony about the 2
BP vests.

If she is acquitted of the perjury charge then that means there is no obstruction of justice and that charge would be dismissed.

Her attorney needs to see the evidence ie...proof that she lied under oath about the BP vests. He needs to read the transcripts not only to read her testimony about the BP vests, but he said he wants to see the CONTEXT associated around the BP vest questions.

The more information her attorney can get, the more he can say she didn't understand the context of the question, she got confused, she misheard the question etc...

The lawyer tipped some of his hand when he said she is hard of hearing. That could be a defense strategy.

It could be simple or more complicated as you suggest. Only one juror has to feel she misheard or misunderstood the context or didn't know about the BP vests etc....for there to be a mistrial (hung jury.)

Purchase of bulletproof vests at center of charges against Wagner matriarch

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[sunshineray]

JW does talk about seeing K at the hospital. Remember, he checked for the familial trait, the coveted Hammer Toe. I think he did have S, and took her to the hospital, like anyone else would. It was only CG that was openly unwelcome.

That is true and had slipped my mind. How could the Hammer Toe have slipped my mind!? So there is that hospital visit to account for, time wise. I sure hope CG has very good notes for the "picked her up early", "we must have missed it by hours" conversation and there are others who can testify to where S was and when.
I just thought of something, how would they handle it if the only ones who can corroborate HR dropping off instead of JW picking S up, just that day early, are the co-defendenants? They certainly can't take the stand as just witnesses to that, can they? Can they even be subpoenaed?

 

[Ann99]

Even though some of us don’t see the necklace in the photo, can someone describe what it should look like? Or a link to a picture.

I’m just now reading what I can find about Boondocks Saints.

The quote about the Scorpion and the Frog... BoondockSaints II
”They both lose everything” is interesting.

I’ve read some things about the words (Latin words for Truth and Justice) the two main characters each tattoo on their hand.
So apparently a hand tattoo has great meaning.

Refer to Billy’s Scorpion Tat on his trigger finger.
I did look into the tale of the Scorpion and the Frog.
Why a Scorpion? The ancient tale is fascinating in its moral and symbolism. Here’s what I found.


A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown.

The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both.

What is the moral of the scorpion and the frog?

When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.

“Just my nature, frog.”

The moral of the story — the frog should have been aware of the scorpion's nature, and so we should always be aware of the true nature of those who surround us
...The story of the scorpion and the frog is that people will be who they are...in the end they will follow their true nature even if it is to their own demise.

[Emphasis on EVEN IF IT LEADS TO THEIR OWN DEMISE]

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Even though some of us don’t see the necklace in the photo, can someone describe what it should look like? Or a link to a picture.

I’m just now reading what I can find about Boondocks Saints.

The quote about the Scorpion and the Frog... BoondockSaints II
”They both lose everything” is interesting.

I’ve read some things about the words (Latin words for Truth and Justice) the two main characters each tattoo on their hand.
So apparently a hand tattoo has great meaning.

Refer to Billy’s Scorpion Tat on his trigger finger.
I did look into the tale of the Scorpion and the Frog.
Why a Scorpion? The ancient tale is fascinating in its moral and symbolism. Here’s what I found.


A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown.

The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both.

What is the moral of the scorpion and the frog?

When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.

“Just my nature, frog.”

The moral of the story — the frog should have been aware of the scorpion's nature, and so we should always be aware of the true nature of those who surround us
...The story of the scorpion and the frog is that people will be who they are...in the end they will follow their true nature even if it is to their own demise.

[Emphasis on EVEN IF IT LEADS TO THEIR OWN DEMISE]

That reminds me of a story told to me once. A woman finds a snake that is sick. She takes it home and nurses it back to health. The snake recovers and promptly bites her. She asked him "Why would you bite me? I have cared for you and fed you". The snake replies. "It is not my fault. You knew what I was when you picked me up."

 

[Julia966]

I don't see a necklace. I thought it might be CH to the right by the bed. The individual also appears to be wearing a hospital band similar to the one on HR wrist.

I know we all think different things for different reasons, but I'm not 100% ready to believe it is fact that Jake was at the hospital and HR let him pull that sock off to check toes. I just can't find anything public, at least yet, to support him being there. S could have been brought over by anyone.

There is too much contradiction or space between (All is well- nothing was amiss, custody was amicable, Jake gets to come to the hospital, and the possible rumor Jake put together a crib, etc) and (there was a falling out, a fight between BW and CSR, tense custody battle with 500+ text messages seeming to be in discovery, etc)

Oh, OK, thanks! You're probably right, I don't know what CH looks like.

(edit) Wait, who is CH? Did you mean CG?

 

[Ann99]

Cool Cats, you are right. The charges against Fredericka could be that simple.
I just feel like more is going on than we know about.
We may have more clues after the next deadline, if there is any coverage for the public.
From the article you linked:

“Owen requested a transcript be provided as soon as possible and the judge set a deadline of Jan. 31 barring any delays.
The judge said he may need time to review the transcripts before they are made available to the defense.”

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks. Ok, I don’t doubt your experiences. Not trying to start an argument.

I’ve used Notarys often in Ohio, but always at a bank. They have always kept a log. Maybe banks are more stringent.
Did you have to report the fees?

In reading all the State of Ohio info, FAQ’s it is confusing and unclear.
Here is my reason for the post. Again, I’m not trying to start an argument- It does appear as if the journal may NOT be mandatory.
Some type of record keeping is alluded to.

“Every Ohio notary needs a notary record book to record every notarial act he or she performs.
( A notary record book is also referred to as a “journal of notarial acts” or a “notary journal.”)
The entries you record in the record book will be used as evidence if a notarial act you performed is ever questioned in a court of law.
Notary record books also build customer confidence and discourage fraudulent transactions.
This useful and economical Ohio notary record book accommodates 350 entries and includes step-by-step instructions for recording notarial acts. The book is chronologically numbered so that it will be easy to detect if a record is tampered with. This journal meets or exceeds Ohio state requirements for proper notarial record keeping

My Dad was a police officer and a notary upon retirement. He kept a meticulous log and told me it was very much frowned upon for notaries to notarize anything for family members. It wasn't illegal or forbidden unless the notary was directly going to benefit financial from something they notorized but it was something they were told to avoid. While child custody papers were not financialy beneficial to grandma NR, she probably would have benefited from seeing her W great-grandkids more by notorizing those documents, not a financial gain but certainly a gain.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Oh, OK, thanks! You're probably right, I don't know what CH looks like.

(edit) Wait, who is CH? Did you mean CG?

HR's boyfriend. I don't know if I'm right that he is in that photo, but his photo is in this article. Notice the hat.
2nd funeral Saturday for victim in Ohio shooting massacre

 

[Julia966]

HR's boyfriend. I don't know if I'm right that he is in that photo, but his photo is in this article. Notice the hat.
2nd funeral Saturday for victim in Ohio shooting massacre

Oh, right, right, of course. I can't keep everyone straight!

 

[Cool Cats]

Do we know it is RR's picture in the discovery pictures? I've thought maybe the photos had something to do with urgency leading to the forged papers, IMO, unless we know when they were taken.

Yes. 23 photos specifically of RR were turned over to the defense. The photos were taken in the Hospital on April 22nd, 2016.

 

[NWLady]

There are many of us who have followed this case here since the day the news broke, but choose not to post much due to either time constraints and/or nothing new to add that hasn't already been said. JMO