OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[Cool Cats]

Ann99....You said to refer to Billy's Scorpion tat on his trigger finger.

I thought you and others might want a quick way to see Billy's scorpion tattoo. Click on this link and it's the 2nd photo down. Goes right to his controversial trigger finger tattoo. Makes it easy to see...No muss no fuss!

Wagner Arraignments

Sorry Ann99....I meant to include your post with my response but I accidentally cut it off and can't get it back on here. Your post about the SCORPION AND FROG.

 

[sunshineray]

The first picture looks like it is of Jake taking a picture of the picture on another phone. So I see Jake off to the right in the photo, and the reflection of his hand and upper chest in the reflection. At least, I think that's what I'm seeing.

I don't see a necklace, though.

I think the person who took those pictures at the hospita or were texted those pictures by the first person has the phone with the pink trim. I believe the person taking a picture of the picture could be reporter CG? Wasn't it her article those pictures appeared in? I couldn't open the Gazette link as I don't have a subscription but found the pictures through Google images. I'm not seeing any reflection either of anything Boondock Saints.

 

[rsd1200]

I know in my part of Ohio my son was quoted 2000.00 for a non contested divorce with no custody issues. For that price he and is soon to be ex had to agree on everything (property division, custody, parenting time etc) For one involving child custody, shared parenting, parenting time disputes it was 5000.00 to start. He was told over and over that if there is any dispute on child custody, parenting times etc it would get very expensive.

I know JW wasn't getting a divorce, but just to show what a case involving children could cost.

Divorce is different. He was only appearing in family court, as her sole living parent, who had zero arrests/convictions, and a solid visitation history with his child. They likely did do a dna, if one had never been done.

It probably varies case to case, region to region, but a Family Court type of hearing for what JW needed, shouldn't cost $5k, especially in a distressed, and poverty stricken, region, such as the surrounding Pike, Adams, and Scioto counties.

He may have hired a lawyer who charges more for such a service, but why? Felt he should? Felt he had to? Didn't shop around? Are we even sure he hired one? You can represent yourself and the other parent was not battling him for custody/visitation.

 

[rsd1200]

It was Jake if you look at the reflection off the glass that he snapped the picture of Hanna and the kids you can also see a necklace like the boondocks saints around his neck.

I don't see the necklace but am pretty sure that's likely JW. Could be CH, but am pretty positive it's not CG.

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe not enough coffee this morning, but I didn't remember seeing "this man" sitting next to FW. BIG EDIT: Definately, lack of coffee and contact lenses...this man was sitting at table. I didn't notice him before, sorry. But since I got your attention, can anyone explain how & why & when a defendant pays for their own monitoring....if they haven't been convicted of anything, yet?
View attachment 166113

BBM
It was her choice. She could have forgone the bail/bond and house arrest w/monitoring (it costs the county/state for them to do that), and sat in jail if she'd preferred.

 

[Julia966]

I don't see the necklace but am pretty sure that's likely JW. Could be CH, but am pretty positive it's not CG.

I thought it might be Jake, but honestly, with the blur, the reflection and the hat, it could be any of the three of them, or someone else entirely. Did Jake ever have a beard like that that we know of? He had a stubbly thing going on at one point, but that looks like a fully-grown beard.

 

[rsd1200]

That is true and had slipped my mind. How could the Hammer Toe have slipped my mind!? So there is that hospital visit to account for, time wise. I sure hope CG has very good notes for the "picked her up early", "we must have missed it by hours" conversation and there are others who can testify to where S was and when.
I just thought of something, how would they handle it if the only ones who can corroborate HR dropping off instead of JW picking S up, just that day early, are the co-defendenants? They certainly can't take the stand as just witnesses to that, can they? Can they even be subpoenaed?

Surely someone saw that S was with JW and/or S was not with HMR, like KR2, who turned around that night? She should be able to tell where S was, she seems to know where the newborn was...

 

[buttonbaby]

I thought it might be Jake, but honestly, with the blur, the reflection and the hat, it could be any of the three of them, or someone else entirely. Did Jake ever have a beard like that that we know of? He had a stubbly thing going on at one point, but that looks like a fully-grown beard.

IMOO, it's CH, as he was her boyfriend at the time little K was born, and he also has a matching hospital band to HR. As a visitor, JW would be given something like a "Visitor" sticker, not any type of band. MOO

 

[rsd1200]

Oh, right, right, of course. I can't keep everyone straight!

It looks more like CH to me after blowing it up.

 

[Julia966]

IMOO, it's CH, as he was her boyfriend at the time little K was born, and he also has a matching hospital band to HR. As a visitor, JW would be given something like a "Visitor" sticker, not any type of band. MOO

I wonder if he would get the matching band if he's not the father. Am I remembering correctly that CG is the father?

 

[rsd1200]

I thought it might be Jake, but honestly, with the blur, the reflection and the hat, it could be any of the three of them, or someone else entirely. Did Jake ever have a beard like that that we know of? He had a stubbly thing going on at one point, but that looks like a fully-grown beard.

It looks more like CH's beard scruff. I think he wore his like that.

 

[buttonbaby]

I wonder if he would get the matching band if he's not the father. Am I remembering correctly that CG is the father?

If he actually checked in with her as her significant other, even if he's not the bio father, he would probably be given a band. IIRC, she did not want CG anywhere around, of course, MOO, MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

Divorce is different. He was only appearing in family court, as her sole living parent, who had zero arrests/convictions, and a solid visitation history with his child. They likely did do a dna, if one had never been done.

It probably varies case to case, region to region, but a Family Court type of hearing for what JW needed, shouldn't cost $5k, especially in a distressed, and poverty stricken, region, such as the surrounding Pike, Adams, and Scioto counties.

He may have hired a lawyer who charges more for such a service, but why? Felt he should? Felt he had to? Didn't shop around? Are we even sure he hired one? You can represent yourself and the other parent was not battling him for custody/visitation.

DNA tests can probably be more expensive than they need to be but can't just a straight up paternity test be done quickly and cheaply? Finding out a newborn's father out of 2 or 3 candidates would have been a simple thing no? Also was JW not listed on S's birth certificate? Or did JW's paternity need to be verified with her as well?

 

[sunshineray]

Surely someone saw that S was with JW and/or S was not with HMR, like KR2, who turned around that night? She should be able to tell where S was, she seems to know where the newborn was...

I would think if KR2 spent time with HR that day and was going to spend the night with her, HR probably mentioned if JW was picking S up that night or already had her from days before.

 

[rsd1200]

IMOO, it's CH, as he was her boyfriend at the time little K was born, and he also has a matching hospital band to HR. As a visitor, JW would be given something like a "Visitor" sticker, not any type of band. MOO

If that's CH, then he'd likely know how S got there, and where she was staying. Same as I feel that KR2 would know. I'm sure they've been questioned, and very early on.

JW's original comment said that he picked her up at 10:30 p.m. the night of the 21st. If so no one would really know that, at the scene that day. If in fact, that statement was true, S was the only R child who was unaccounted for, so, someone had to be saying; Oh, my Lord, where is S?!?! If they didn't already know.


From my own post in Thread 29, post #9:

He picked her up that night at 10:30, a day early.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...lls/ar-AAj4KpB (This link no longer works.)

However, it can be found below, in an October 15, 2015 article, that states: "Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when HMR's daughter went to stay with her father, JW. HMR dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016."
Pike County: Death in the foothills

Hope this all makes sense.

 

[rsd1200]

DNA tests can probably be more expensive than they need to be but can't just a straight up paternity test be done quickly and cheaply? Finding out a newborn's father out of 2 or 3 candidates would have been a simple thing no? Also was JW not listed on S's birth certificate? Or did JW's paternity need to be verified with her as well?

If they'd never done a DNA test at an approved facility, or filed the appropriate paperwork when S was born, and since they were unmarried, he'd have to do one at an approved facility and take it from there.

In Ohio, if a child is born to an unmarried woman, she is considered by law to be the sole custodial parent. A father has no rights until he establishes paternity and obtains a Court Order granting him custody, shared parenting, or parenting time. There are a number of ways to establish paternity, including signing an Acknowledgment of Paternity Affidavit, and/or DNA Testing.

Just because paternity is established, it does not automatically mean that the father has custody or visitation rights with the minor child. The same goes for father's who have been ordered by the Child Support Enforcement Agency to pay child support. Once paternity is established, it is necessary for the father to petition the Court for custody, shared parenting, or parenting time.

Father's Parental Rights in Ohio | The Law Offices of Saia & Piatt, Inc.

 

[Betty P]

This man is Fred's Attorney. The only monitoring being done on Fred is she has to wear an electronic ankle monitor and comply with all the conditions associated with her house arrest and several bail conditions.
But everyone on bail even without house arrest still has to follow a list of conditions. House arrest just makes it more complicated and greatly restricts your movements.

Yes there is often a fee involved when wearing an electronic tether.
The Pike County Courthouse Clerk's Office should list the fees for electronic tether monitoring.

OT Interesting there is a fee to suspects for the electronic monitoring. I have a friend whose husband sells those and other LE equipment. They live in a very big mansion and own another one down in Florida. Lots of money in those electronic tether gadgets.

 

[IQuestion]

Divorce is different. He was only appearing in family court, as her sole living parent, who had zero arrests/convictions, and a solid visitation history with his child. They likely did do a dna, if one had never been done.

It probably varies case to case, region to region, but a Family Court type of hearing for what JW needed, shouldn't cost $5k, especially in a distressed, and poverty stricken, region, such as the surrounding Pike, Adams, and Scioto counties.

He may have hired a lawyer who charges more for such a service, but why? Felt he should? Felt he had to? Didn't shop around? Are we even sure he hired one? You can represent yourself and the other parent was not battling him for custody/visitation.

Hiya RSD1200, bbm I highlighted your comment because you bring up something I have been thinking about for a few months about JW's claim of legal bill 4 times greater than he anticipated.
First of all, it would have been obvious the Mother of the child was "underage" if he was required to provide a birth certificate for S and HMR, right?? Did it ever occur to anyone that a FALSE DATE OF BIRTH was provided to the attorney, for either S's d.o.b or HMR's d.o.b and the attorney found out when HMR's death certificate was produced? JW already knew he would be asked questions about HMR's age.....and I think he tried to hide it when he submitted the docs. (If he were my client and I found out he lied about "age"....I'd charge 4 times more to refile the corrected documents!) I just have to say, I'm getting the feeling JW doesn't always disclose all the information in a truthful manner. Perhaps he told the attorney, "She told me she was 16 years old....I am absolutely shocked! She lied? Oh, poor me....and now I have a daughter to raise, all by myself."
Just using my imagination and "what-if" scenarios.
Because there has to be a reason he is being "squeezed" on the issue now. I think that has been "the real elephant in the room."

 

[Betty P]

If that's CH, then he'd likely know how S got there, and where she was staying. Same as I feel that KR2 would know. I'm sure they've been questioned, and very early on.

JW's original comment said that he picked her up at 10:30 p.m. the night of the 21st. If so no one would really know that, at the scene that day. If in fact, that statement was true, S was the only R child who was unaccounted for, so, someone had to be saying; Oh, my Lord, where is S?!?! If they didn't already know.


From my own post in Thread 29, post #9:

He picked her up that night at 10:30, a day early.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...lls/ar-AAj4KpB (This link no longer works.)

However, it can be found below, in an October 15, 2015 article, that states: "Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when HMR's daughter went to stay with her father, JW. HMR dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016."
Pike County: Death in the foothills

Hope this all makes sense.

Yes, this is what I recall - the MSN story (it was reported in other news outlets, too) that he picked her up that night at 10:30, a day early. For better or worse, that's the info tattooed in my brain about the timeline. All MSM reported that for a long time. Wouldn't Hanna's friends know? Wouldn't someone have a text or see a FB post or something from HMR that would confirm the pick up?



I'm going to

 

[Betty P]

Or relative.

Definitely. Have not done much of a family tree on the Wags family. At that time, I can see a lot of people willing to write such a letter. Wags weren't suspects and it would be easy for FW or someone to convince a friend or relative that they're getting a bum rap in the news media from reporters saying Sophia was in danger. Most people in that situation wouldn't have been bothered by the news coverage of that (I don't recall any reporting critical of the foster or temp parents the young kids were living with). So whoever wrote the letter was very defensive and "thin-skinned". Obviously also had a guilty conscience.

 

[Betty P]

Ann99....You said to refer to Billy's Scorpion tat on his trigger finger.

I thought you and others might want a quick way to see Billy's scorpion tattoo. Click on this link and it's the 2nd photo down. Goes right to his controversial trigger finger tattoo. Makes it easy to see...No muss no fuss!

Wagner Arraignments

Sorry Ann99....I meant to include your post with my response but I accidentally cut it off and can't get it back on here. Your post about the SCORPION AND FROG.