OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#44

[MittenScarpetta]

Probably. Our first indication will be in how Fred Wagner handles her case. She and Rita's cases will probably be resolved before the others. I'm guessing FW will deny family involvement in the murders. She may acknowledge trying to do something with the custody documents, but will claim it had nothing to do with the murders.

Otherwise, she's going to make the prosecution prove their case.

Prosecution and defense will have had nearly 2 months to share evidence, strategize and work something out WRT the processing of these cases going forward. I wonder what they've worked out?

ETA: Someone is going to use the argument that W's were not involved and the Rhodens were so terrible they had dozens of people wanting to kill them.

IIRC, it was stated by the judge that RN’s case would be resolved/disposed no later than July 2019.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Whose juvenile records are you referring to? AWs motion was for the juvenile records for State's witnesses, IIRC.

JWs fake adoption papers that was presented to juvenile court.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

JWs fake adoption papers that was presented to juvenile court.

Sorry custody paperwork for his daughter.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

No, I do not think it's unconstitutional. I believe we owe our Creator more than we do the Constitution. 8 human lives taken. Premeditated for months, if not years, killed worse than animals, dogs left alive while humans were shot to death, DR all around her head, CRSR 9 N I N E times, GR gun put to his head and shot, Hanna with a newborn beside her, Hannah G right after nursing, FR a young Daddy of two, and CRJR, a 16 year old. Then, as if they just had to get ONE more, they (think) they go out in a blaze of glory as they drop by and shoot KR on their way back to FWs. Cold blooded killers, evil to the very core, to act as if nothing ever happened and tell lie after lie after lie to deceive. Unconstitutional? Not in my opinion. Thanks, CC. All just my opinion.

Your right, the Wagners has got away with breaking the laws all their life, they think that their the law where they live, if found guilty in the court system I pray that it not long until justice is served.

 

[Betty P]

Sorry custody paperwork for his daughter.

Considering some also wanted the names of the people who served on the Grand Jury, it seems likely they want to dig up dirt on them and any witnesses to smear their reputations and attempt to discredit witness testimony.

Because everyone conspired to stop the Wags from doing what they felt they were entitled to do - kill 8 people when they couldn't get fully custody of their daughter/granddaughter.

The Wags are delusional, hateful, violent sociopaths who think they're better than everyone else and entitled to live by their own rules.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

The Wags are delusional, hateful, violent sociopaths who think they're better than everyone else and entitled to live by their own rules.

It shows in all those petitions. I bet they're real popular in jail.

 

[Cool Cats]

IIRC, it was stated by the judge that RN’s case would be resolved/disposed no later than July 2019.

Nice to hear from you again Mitten. I remember your posts from when I first joined WS.

Wanted to add that FW's attorney asked Judge Deering for a speedy trial and he also said he wanted to redress (at a later date) the negative things said in the media --- by the prosecution --- about Fred.

If Fred gets acquitted he will have a field day with the media, but even so, Fred's reputation won't be salvaged.

She will always be known as the grandma who sat around in her home listening to her family plot murder, before or after the murders doesn't matter at this point, her reputation is already partially ruined for good.

Just go look at what the dog and horsey "set" say about her in their forums.

What Fred's Attorney said in court is fact......The rest is Just My 2 Cents......

 

[Betty P]

Nice to hear from you again Mitten. I remember your posts from when I first joined WS.

Wanted to add that FW's attorney asked Judge Deering for a speedy trial and he also said he wanted to redress (at a later date) the negative things said in the media --- by the prosecution --- about Fred.

If Fred gets acquitted he will have a field day with the media, but even so, Fred's reputation won't be salvaged.

She will always be known as the grandma who sat around in her home listening to her family plot murder, before or after the murders doesn't matter at this point, her reputation is already partially ruined for good.

Just go look at what the dog and horsey "set" say about her in their forums.

What Fred's Attorney said in court is fact......The rest is Just My 2 Cents......

BBM.

That's helpful information. I agree, her PR campaigns aren't going to convince a whole lot of people, especially once the trial begins and more details about her role in various planning and cover up activities become known.

 

[Cool Cats]

Probably. Our first indication will be in how Fred Wagner handles her case. She and Rita's cases will probably be resolved before the others. I'm guessing FW will deny family involvement in the murders. She may acknowledge trying to do something with the custody documents, but will claim it had nothing to do with the murders.

Otherwise, she's going to make the prosecution prove their case.

Prosecution and defense will have had nearly 2 months to share evidence, strategize and work something out WRT the processing of these cases going forward. I wonder what they've worked out?

ETA: Someone is going to use the argument that W's were not involved and the Rhodens were so terrible they had dozens of people wanting to kill them.

Since FW is not being charged with anything to do with the custody documents I think her attorney will object to any kind of questioning that goes anywhere near this.

And again (all my 2 cents) I think FW's attorney will strongly object to any questions that go anywhere near the subject of murder.

Her attorney, for all his bluster, is very experienced and will keep the trial down to simple "brass tacks"...ie...Fred didn't understand/hear correctly/know anything about/answered as honestly she could...etc... About anything that has to do with the 2 bulletproof vests.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM.

That's helpful information. I agree, her PR campaigns aren't going to convince a whole lot of people, especially once the trial begins and more details about her role in various planning and cover up activities become known.

I like your differing opinions from mine, makes me seriously think. What I mean is that I tend to look at Fred's trial as cut and dried. "Bullet Proof Vest 101."

However, you tend to mention the possibility of more " dirt" being exposed. I find this intriguing and wonder what else could come to light?

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

13 days until next pre trial. AW’s should be interesting

 

[Betty P]

I like your differing opinions from mine, makes me seriously think. What I mean is that I tend to look at Fred's trial as cut and dried. "Bullet Proof Vest 101."

However, you tend to mention the possibility of more " dirt" being exposed. I find this intriguing and wonder what else could come to light?

Her indictment only covers one area of wrongdoing - her testimony before the GJ. Prosecutor Canepa has also briefly mentioned her presence at the family meetings when plans were discussed. I have a feeling there's more information LE uncovered about Fred and her possible knowledge or "awareness" of her family's murder spree that wasn't included in the indictment. It will probably come out at trial.

JMO, Fred Wagner was much more aware of what happened or was about to happen and did nothing to stop it.

 

[Betty P]

13 days until next pre trial. AW’s should be interesting

We should start doing some preparation, getting organized again. I'm going to finish my case summary to put at the beginning of the thread.

A while back, I asked Tricia to have a mod create a separate sub forum for the Pike County Murders. Once the trials begin, it will be rather complicated to keep everything organized, especially if they all have separate trials.

Can you guys offer some suggestions for how to organize a sub-forum if we get one? What subject threads would you like to see. Usually the existing series of General Discussion threads are posted within the sub forum. The Media & Timelines thread will be incorporated (I think) into the sub as well.

TIA

 

[Betty P]

Another question:

Just curious, but does anyone think the Rhoden family survivors, etc. will file a civil suit against the W's?

I hope they do. What do you all think?

 

[Cool Cats]

Her indictment only covers one area of wrongdoing - her testimony before the GJ. Prosecutor Canepa has also briefly mentioned her presence at the family meetings when plans were discussed. I have a feeling there's more information LE uncovered about Fred and her possible knowledge or "awareness" of her family's murder spree that wasn't included in the indictment. It will probably come out at trial.

JMO, Fred Wagner was much more aware of what happened or was about to happen and did nothing to stop it.

I think the conversations at Fred's could be the "smoking gun" in the trials. Question is, if the conversations are on wiretaps will they be played in court? Or If the conversations are coming from witness testimony, will the witnesse(s) be called to the stand?

It's no secret I believe we are dealing with wiretaps here, and I've mentioned this a few times.

But because you mention Fred being at family meetings involving criminal conversations, and those particular conversations possibly being brought up at trial, it makes me believe even more we are dealing with wiretaps here.

Why? Because anyone could go to Angela Canepa and say "Hey, I was at Fred's and they were all talking about murdering Sheriff Reader and escaping from jail."

And prosecutor Canepa could not simply take a person's word for it. In fact I'm pretty sure it would only be hearsay evidence . If 2 witnesses said the same thing that is a stronger case but still not enough. It can still be construed as hearsay.

BUT for AC to state in open court on the record that Fred was privy to revenge and escape conversations, of which there were several, she had to be sure she was not stating ONLY hearsay evidence.

A wiretap of the Wagners in their own words (a legally installed wiretap) IS NOT hearsay and can be used in court.

Of course the defense will get voice experts and copies of the wiretap warrants etc... for proof....but the prosecution is very confident in Fred being present for these conversations.

A big thing not often mentioned is that AC was actually concerned that Fred might actually PARTICIPATE in the carrying out of the revenge and escape plans.

So yes, for the above reasons I do think it's possible that the conversations at Fred's could be the "smoking gun" used in all the trials, except for RN's trial, unless specific forgery conversations were recorded.

 

[Cool Cats]

Another question:

Just curious, but does anyone think the Rhoden family survivors, etc. will file a civil suit against the W's?

I hope they do. What do you all think?

100% Yes. And remember OJ was acquitted but the families won a civil judgement against him? This turned out to be the only way for the families to get some type of justice.

The guilt threshold is much lower for a civil court trial than for a criminal court trial.

And assets or not, the families at the very least will want a guilty civil court verdict put on the record.

Of course it all depends on the families' abilities to obtain an attorney and what advice the attorney gives.

My answer is yes.....Just My 2 Cents........

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

I think when the trials are starting, it may be every W for them self. I can see GWIV saying he was coerced into getting involved because it was family. I can see GWIII failing all the psychological tests the Defense Psychologist gives him and then saying he is incapable of knowing right from wrong or some such excuse. I think JW and AW will go the route of blaming the Rs and saying they were "saving" S from perceived evil... JMO only

It’s too late for that. They’re all going down

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

We should start doing some preparation, getting organized again. I'm going to finish my case summary to put at the beginning of the thread.

A while back, I asked Tricia to have a mod create a separate sub forum for the Pike County Murders. Once the trials begin, it will be rather complicated to keep everything organized, especially if they all have separate trials.

Can you guys offer some suggestions for how to organize a sub-forum if we get one? What subject threads would you like to see. Usually the existing series of General Discussion threads are posted within the sub forum. The Media & Timelines thread will be incorporated (I think) into the sub as well.

TIA

What do they usually do on this site in these situations (for other murders)

 

[Betty P]

Another question:

Just curious, but does anyone think the Rhoden family survivors, etc. will file a civil suit against the W's?

I hope they do. What do you all think?

 

[Cool Cats]

I think when the trials are starting, it may be every W for them self. I can see GWIV saying he was coerced into getting involved because it was family. I can see GWIII failing all the psychological tests the Defense Psychologist gives him and then saying he is incapable of knowing right from wrong or some such excuse. I think JW and AW will go the route of blaming the Rs and saying they were "saving" S from perceived evil... JMO only

These are just excuses for them committing the murders. For them to use these excuses it would be the same as admitting that they committed all these murders and felonies.

I believe they will totally and completely deny having anything to do with it, and will try to pin the 8 murders on drug selling/a drugged out crazy person/Chris Sr. buying up foreclosed properties/robbery/cartel/fights/road rage/money they owed but refused to pay/ marijuana grow ops/love triangles/derby jealousy/revenge and rage for this or that/anything and everything under the sun...ETC...EXCEPT for blaming and incriminating themselves....2 Cents......