OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #19

[Obiwankenobi]

I have a question, and I only ask bc I don't know, how can media sue for information like this? In my opinion, it seems like an autopsy report should be private. Maybe not to the next of kin, but isn't it considered part of ones medical record? Maybe not to LE since it's relevant to a criminal investigation, but it seems like even they would need a court order for such info. Yes, I'd like to know this information, but is it really any of my business? Again, I only ask because I truly don't know how autopsy information works.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

I don't think the state can just "decide" whose information can be available for the general public and whose info will not be made available. If the state law says autopsy results are available to the general public the state is required to release them. People who live in Ohio, and especially the newspapers and reporters know what the law says, and the state doesn't have the right to. "pick and choose" whose info is to be released and whose info is going to remain private. That's just the way it is. Nobody has the authority to change the law. That can only be done thru the state Senate and H of R. And if the law is changed, it isn't retro-active!

I suppose you've answered my question. Is it a law that autopsy reports are accessible to anyone?

 

[grow73]

I suppose you've answered my question. Is it a law that autopsy reports are accessible to anyone?

Yes. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313.10

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/149.43

 

[glf]

According to an Ohio lawyer, there was one particular case where the info was withheld in a murder case. He also stated the actual law says they are a matter of public law. In my opinion, that law seems possibly slightly vague, but the lawyer who was interviewed believes the law to say they are a public document. Maybe when the autopsies were withheld in the 1984 case, nobody complained loudly, and LE got by with their little stunt. This case is so high profile, reporters and the family are not going to let this slide. There will not be anything in the report that releasing the info would prove to be beneficial to the killers.
Many times I have heard the law is open to interpretation. That sounds like bureaucratic BS. This to me is just their way of withholding info.
Yes, it may be upsetting to learn your cousin was shot four times but it doesn't really matter, they are still just as dead as if they were only shot once.
Refer to the articles posted above.
Better yet, read the Ohio codes mentioned above.

 

[grow73]

According to an Ohio lawyer, there was one particular case where the info was withheld in a murder case. He also stated the actual law says they are a matter of public law. In my opinion, that law seems possibly slightly vague, but the lawyer who was interviewed believes the law to say they are a public document. Maybe when the autopsies were withheld in the 1984 case, nobody complained loudly, and LE got by with their little stunt. This case is so high profile, reporters and the family are not going to let this slide. There will not be anything in the report that releasing the info would prove to be beneficial to the killers.
Many times I have heard the law is open to interpretation. That sounds like bureaucratic BS. This to me is just their way of withholding info.
Yes, it may be upsetting to learn your cousin was shot four times but it doesn't really matter, they are still just as dead as if they were only shot once.
Refer to the articles posted above.
Better yet, read the Ohio codes mentioned above.

And, as stated in the Dispatch article, normal practice/procedure is releasing the records, and black out what's considered confidential or sensitive.

"Dennis Hetzel, executive director of the Ohio Newspaper Association and also an expert in public record laws, said the law does not allow an official to simply withhold any record, but requires him to redact only the information that meets the standard for non-disclosure."
.
They didn't even do that, and I find that quite arrogant.

Edit: Added quote

 

[Obiwankenobi]

Yes. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313.10

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/149.43

Wow, I guess you have no rights, or need them, after you're deceased. Makes sense.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

So, I'm wondering if these will be released soon or if a court will back up LE and so no. Very interesting.

 

[grow73]

So, I'm wondering if these will be released soon or if a court will back up LE and so no. Very interesting.

Yes, I think so too. And finally something is happening. As you could read in the Dispatch article, journalists might have a right to look at the documents, even though they are not to be treated as public. That could mean they'll allow a handful of reporters to look at them, and then tell them what (insignificant) information they get to release. But I hope they'll demand full disclosure.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313.10

313.10 Records to be public - certified copies as evidence.

(e) Records of a deceased individual that are confidential law enforcement investigatory records as defined in section 149.43 of the Revised Code;

(D) A journalist may submit to the coroner a written request to view preliminary autopsy and investigative notes and findings, suicide notes, or photographs of the decedent made by the coroner or by anyone acting under the coroner's discretion or supervision. The request shall include the journalist's name and title and the name and address of the journalist's employer and state that the granting of the request would be in the best interest of the public. If a journalist submits a written request to the coroner to view the records described in this division, the coroner shall grant the journalist's request. The journalist shall not copy the preliminary autopsy and investigative notes and findings, suicide notes, or photographs of the decedent.

 

[Dudly]

New news report from WHIO TV in Dayton, Ohio. Access denied to autopsies paper work...

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime...s/nr5L5/?ecmp=whiotv_social_facebook_2014_sfp

 

[Dudly]

And, as stated in the Dispatch article, normal practice/procedure is releasing the records, and black out what's considered confidential or sensitive.

"Dennis Hetzel, executive director of the Ohio Newspaper Association and also an expert in public record laws, said the law does not allow an official to simply withhold any record, but requires him to redact only the information that meets the standard for non-disclosure."
.
They didn't even do that, and I find that quite arrogant.

Edit: Added quote

There is a court order to seal all the paper work. Even the court order to seal the paper work is sealed. Don't know if that will keep the autopsies
out of public record or not...

 

[Obiwankenobi]

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313.10

313.10 Records to be public - certified copies as evidence.

(e) Records of a deceased individual that are confidential law enforcement investigatory records as defined in section 149.43 of the Revised Code;

(D) A journalist may submit to the coroner a written request to view preliminary autopsy and investigative notes and findings, suicide notes, or photographs of the decedent made by the coroner or by anyone acting under the coroner's discretion or supervision. The request shall include the journalist's name and title and the name and address of the journalist's employer and state that the granting of the request would be in the best interest of the public. If a journalist submits a written request to the coroner to view the records described in this division, the coroner shall grant the journalist's request. The journalist shall not copy the preliminary autopsy and investigative notes and findings, suicide notes, or photographs of the decedent.

SO, LE is breaking the law? LOL!

To me, laws read kind of like instruction manuals!

 

[Dudly]

SO, LE is breaking the law? LOL!

To me, laws read kind of like instruction manuals!

They haven't released the original crime reports that are supposed to be public record as soon as they are written.

 

[CSIDreamer]

There's really no need getting into each and everyones sleeping patterns. I think we can take it as a fact that KR was indeed a light sleeper. He was paranoid, slept with a loaded gun, and his daughter said so. There must be a reason the reporter chose to put that information in the article, KR2 probably spoke of a lot of things related to the investigation, but this kind of out of place comment about the gun made it into the article, for some reason.

I'm not sure we can take as fact he was a light sleeper. Do you have a link for that?

 

[grow73]

I'm not sure we can take as fact he was a light sleeper. Do you have a link for that?

It's in the latest Enquirer interview with KR2. I guess it's possible his daughter is lying, not sure what her motive could be, though.

 

[CSIDreamer]

They haven't released the original crime reports that are supposed to be public record as soon as they are written.

They sure are holding tight to a lot of information. The information about KR being shot in the eye. Between some of the info we've gotten about FR and CR Sr. it really does make me start to wonder if the cartel or mafia of some sort isn't involved. Shot in the eye?

 

[CSIDreamer]

It's in the latest Enquirer interview with KR2. I guess it's possible his daughter is lying, not sure what her motive could be, though.

Ah, I read you comment as he was paranoid and slept with a loaded gun. I wasn't connecting the light sleeper comment as part of the flow.

 

[grow73]

They sure are holding tight to a lot of information. The information about KR being shot in the eye. Between some of the info we've gotten about FR and CR Sr. it really does make me start to wonder if the cartel or mafia of some sort isn't involved. Shot in the eye?

As I've posted earlier, with a small caliber weapon that would be smart, in some cases a small bullet won't penetrate the skull.

 

[glf]

I would never accuse Kendra of lying, I don't feel she could gain anything by lying, but I wonder how long it has been since the two of them shared a home? As was established earlier, people's sleeping habits change, and certainly that could be the case here, nobody knows for sure. And, we don't have verification on whether or not Frankie was shot in the eye.
And this BS of sealing all the incident reports and search warrants, and sealing the order to seal the incident reports and the search warrants...How do we know for certain that the order is sealed? We don't have a clue what is in that envelope! We are just supposed to take their word for it. YEAH RIGHT! For all we know, the sealed order to seal could be somebody's warranty for their new washing machine! I know there is probably alot of sensitive material pertaining to this case, but not absolutely every single scrap of paper someone scribbled a zip code on is confidential. LE just takes it to the extreme trying to make everybody look stupid. I wonder how long they expect us to put up with their baloney?

 

[amauet1]

If it hadn't been for the press we wouldn't even know about the "grow ops". We would know that eight people were shot at 4 different locations on April 22, 2016, period. Their names might have come out, but the LE hasn't released anything really. I as part of the general public became very scared. A whole family "wiped out" in a quiet rural little town in mid America, isn't even safe to live in ? Anyone, living a so called "normal" life (normal as in mainstream) would be terrified! That's normal! Keeping everything a mystery in a crime of this magnitude isn't "normal" The police, AG, BCI whatever you want to call the powers that be are the ones who are creating this mass mistrust, not the family, not the public.

The biggest fear, is fear of the unknown. I mean, how do you protect your "loved ones", yourself, anyone you love, when you don't know how this happened? Having to wonder, if something you've done or said might "set" whoever it was "off" again? I don't want to know "all the gory details" and I already know more about this "poor family" than I would want someone knowing about me!

All this is IMO, but I'm tired of worrying, I'm tired of being scared and I'm tired of being lied to. Not releasing information in this case is so cruel to the family first of all, and is insulting to me GQ public! Ok I think this little "rant" is over..................for now lol