OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

It's difficult to assess how much they would get from the estimated 200 plants. Assuming these were growing indoors, it depends entirely on the amount of light: both it's brightness and square footage. The plants will grow to whatever size uses the available light, ie you can have 50 big plants or 200 smaller plants, they'll produce the same harvest. http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-many-plants-to-grow

As you say, we don't know whether these were only female plants, we also don't know if these were at different stages of growth. We don't know how much money they'd invested in high tech grow lamps. My tendency is to assume, not much.

150 lbs is definitely too high an estimate. Indoor grown plants with just ok lighting (high quality lights are expensive) and no wasted plants might produce (50gx200plants)÷453= 20 lbs (50 grams per plant, see link above )

In comparison, I noticed this statement

https://www.thedailybeast.com/family-massacre-reveals-ohios-massive-illicit-marijuana-business

habitual recreational user might smoke 1/2 lb per year (225 grams, based on a gram of non-daily, shared, use), a heavy user might use a lb per year. So if they were supplying friends and family, that'd be 30 or 40 people, IMO. A pretty large number.

The wholesale price for a lb today in Ohio is $3000.
http://budzu.com/prices/usa/ohio. So if all went well, all the plants went to harvest, they had invested into lights, they had good contacts to sell to, they could make $70,000 over 4 months. Divide between the partners/workers.

This seems correct, since the 38 lb package of, presumably, cheaper California weed sent via the post office was valued at $100,000.

It's a tidy sum for guys who don't look like they lived large. Not exactly cartel-sized earnings though.

Thanks for this analysis! So, does the usual crop turn over every 4 months? Either way, they weren't making a whole lot of money and someone else would be taking a cut of that, esp. if they fronted them the cash to start the operation.

Is the annual volume of that size operation being sold locally, or would the volume be sufficient to make them a regular supplier to a wholesaler who is distributing it elsewhere - to urban areas, etc.? That's why I was asking these questions - to see if their MJ operations put them in contact with big, powerful dealers selling in more than one state.

I'm not thinking as much about the Rhodens' earnings as about who they were working for. How big were the cartels (US or otherwise) they were supplying? Was it some local small time group they were working with or a larger one that had enough at stake to call in a hit if they thought there was a problem? Were the other local grow ops part of the same supply chain, working with the same powerful bosses or were they all free-lancing, eg just growing enough to sell to locals, the local recreation area and some college students down the road? If they were all working for the same bosses who managed much larger volume, could some disagreement among local growers, etc. have resulted in word going up the chain of command to the big bosses to trigger a hit?

Also, the larger and more coordinated the operation (grower to wholesaler to distributor/retailer) the more likely a few LE knew and were helping.

JMO, that's my theory #1 - Rhodens angered someone who was a fellow local MJ supplier who then made up a story (he's talking to feds, etc) and passed it up to the bosses. Bosses developed a hit plan with some assistance or knowledge from crooked LE.

Theory #2, which you all are discussing above, involves harder drugs (opiates, pain meds) moving through some kind of shadowy health service businesses. Jeez, that's a completely different situation. If that were the case, someone else was skimming most of the profits off the top because, again, Rhodens weren't exactly swimming in cash and still experienced a bit of financial insecurity on a routine basis.

 

[Dudly]

Both are theories that I've had, as well, only I think he may have been awake, if the money was strewn about. I've wondered if he had it out for a specific reason, but they shot him instead. He had to go. I've got one other theory that he may have been the one they pumped for info. He'd know, the next day, who had committed the murders. Final note: I don't think DS accomplished this but I find him very sketchy.

DS reminded me of someone that would be willing to talk a lot for attention. If he would be asked about the Rhoden family, he'd be quick to say Oh, yea, I know them all. I'm related to them. Then go on and on...

 

[MizStery]

Thanks for this analysis! .
<snip>
Theory #2, which you all are discussing above, involves harder drugs (opiates, pain meds) moving through some kind of shadowy health service businesses. Jeez, that's a completely different situation. If that were the case, someone else was skimming most of the profits off the top because, again, Rhodens weren't exactly swimming in cash and still experienced a bit of financial insecurity on a routine basis.

Kinda reminds you of fake LLC's of medical offices or pill mills to. And didn't Jamie Barr expose something about Sheriff Reader not delivering some kind of supenia to the company in a timely manner? It's kind of wierd that the trailers of a family who were murdered and who had MJ grow ops are being stored at a company who were supposed to be manufacturing oil from pot.

BBM

All this health/medical/doctors stuff is leading me to pill mills set up under fake business in order to write scripts for opoids to sell to addicts.

Since the pill mills that operated out of a physical address with a real building and a real doctor have mostly been put out of business by LE could the same people setting up the previous pill mills be setting up under a business that has no real clinic type building? It would be a brilliant idea if it could be managed since LE couldn't shut it down if there was no building to be padlocked or even raided.

JMO

Thanks to each of you for your posts.

March 15,2016 The CDC came out with a document
Guildline For Prescribing Opioids
http://freepdfhosting.com/c6749f69de.pdf

The Rhodes were executed Aril 26 or 27,2016. In March the Feds had turned up the heat on Clinics that were Faux Pain Mills or Faux Clinics used to distribute Rx pills. Perhaps the 'mucky ups' got nervous because they knew CRsr wanted out. The 'Pill beast' stirred up other locals who also operated lower on the 'pyramid or totem pole' to execute 'the' plan a solution for everyone's problem.You do as your told when your told was the screaming message.

This is all my speculation but I decided to work on a timeline of what we knew and the two events that meshed were the two date mentioned above.

:cow:

 

[Tricia]

MizStery,

This is very interesting. Thank you for posting this info.

Tricia

Thanks to each of you for your posts.

March 15,2016 The CDC came out with a document
Guildline For Prescribing Opioids
http://freepdfhosting.com/c6749f69de.pdf

The Rhodes were executed Aril 26 or 27,2016. In March the Feds had turned up the heat on Clinics that were Faux Pain Mills or Faux Clinics used to distribute Rx pills. Perhaps the 'mucky ups' got nervous because they knew CRsr wanted out. The 'Pill beast' stirred up other locals who also operated lower on the 'pyramid or totem pole' to execute 'the' plan a solution for everyone's problem.You do as your told when your told was the screaming message.

This is all my speculation but I decided to work on a timeline of what we knew and the two events that meshed were the two date mentioned above.

:cow:

 

[Betty P]

Thanks to each of you for your posts.

March 15,2016 The CDC came out with a document
Guildline For Prescribing Opioids
http://freepdfhosting.com/c6749f69de.pdf

The Rhodes were executed Aril 26 or 27,2016. In March the Feds had turned up the heat on Clinics that were Faux Pain Mills or Faux Clinics used to distribute Rx pills. Perhaps the 'mucky ups' got nervous because they knew CRsr wanted out. The 'Pill beast' stirred up other locals who also operated lower on the 'pyramid or totem pole' to execute 'the' plan a solution for everyone's problem.You do as your told when your told was the screaming message.

This is all my speculation but I decided to work on a timeline of what we knew and the two events that meshed were the two date mentioned above.

:cow:

It is interesting, but I'm not sure it should have made any big boss fearful of repercussions.

As a CDC/AHRQ recommendation, it was an early phase guideline advising clinicians for whom and how they should administer prescriptions for pain meds. It's not a binding guideline, clinicians are not subject to any kind of sanction for not following it. At most, it might have a chilling effect on whether insurance companies would reimburse the provider for writing the prescriptions to patients they felt didn't meet the recommended guidelines.

I could be wrong, but I don't think CDC has the power to investigate or prosecute any clinician. JMO, from my limited knowledge, they probably wouldn't even refer anyone to an LE agency who they thought was abusing the regs. It's kinda not their "turf" so to speak. To a drug boss, it might be a warning sign that things could become more restrictive in the future, but surely not enough to justify such a crackdown.

My questions on this are:

If Rhodens and others were actually using these health care related businesses as a front to peddle pain meds, who was their PA or clinician who was writing the prescriptions?

Was their practice actually keeping patient records and filing for reimbursement from insurance/Medicare/Medicaid? That's a lot of work and a big paper trail. Or were they just selling them to patients who walked in for cash up front? I'd have to check but some pain clinics in the area who were busted had been doing that. I'm just not sure they could have been operating a pain clinic without a storefront of some kind without someone eventually noticing. Wholesale suppliers of pain meds have to keep some kind of documentation, though I guess they're not required to report much of anything to the government, I think Congress is in the process of passing laws to change that now, or trying to.

So, yeah, I don't see a CDC recommendation causing much panic at that point, but there may have been something else going on. IF CR1 and other "investors" were involved in something like this, they would need to have someone qualified to write the prescriptions, right? I don't think they could just order a bunch of Oxy from a wholesaler and turn around and sell it on the street. Or maybe they did? Jeez.

What do you all think?

 

[amauet1]

He's only been married once but had three living children, one deceased.
He and SR were married in May '91 and divorced in April of 2007 and were living in Waverly.
There were two minor children at the time of the divorce, LR and KR. ages 15, and 10, respectively.

I'd not think too much of that protective order. He could've gotten drunk and done something stupid. They could've been fighting over property and gotten pushy. Idk what went on here. It could have been a shoving match. The violations were in August of 2007 and the divorce was in April of 2007. Possibly fresh wounds. She posts his pictures, gets in on interviews, so it doesn't "seem" as if there's hate there on her part.

Thanks rsd for the info, I knew about the kids and the one that died. Hmmm... He and SR got divorced the same year that CRsr and Dana?

 

[Bootsctr]

Ohio State Trooper among six charged with drug-trafficking crimes

DELAWARE, Ohio &#8212; Six Ohio men, including a trooper, were arrested and federally charged with drug-trafficking crimes in the Delaware area.

Jason Delcol, 43, is accused of using his position with law enforcement to provide information, intervene in criminal cases, corroborate an alibi, and even provide ballistic vests. The US Attorney's Office says Delcol worked with Nicholas Glassburn and Benjamin Owings.

http://abc22now.com/news/local/ohio-state-trooper-among-six-charged-with-drug-trafficking-crimes

 

[Bootsctr]

https://twitter.com/SDOHnews/status/971747616403881984

March 8, 2018

More
#BreakingNews USAtty @BenCGlassman, @FBICincinnati, State & Local LE to announce charges in Cincinnati at 2:30pm in connection with Mexican Sinaloa Drug Cartel

 

[Betty P]

https://twitter.com/SDOHnews/status/971747616403881984

March 8, 2018

More
#BreakingNews USAtty @BenCGlassman, @FBICincinnati, State & Local LE to announce charges in Cincinnati at 2:30pm in connection with Mexican Sinaloa Drug Cartel

Yeah, Bootsctr, we talked some about these busts a little farther back in the thread. This USA Ben Glassman has been getting a lot done. In the last bust, the one w/fentanyl trafficking related to the Sinaloa cartel, one of the guys busted was a small town auxiliary policeman. He was actually paid $1000 to drive out to CA to pick up a shipment of drugs. They also used him for his expertise in learning how to avoid getting busted by LE. Good grief.

ETA: Glassman even had them monitor the handling of cash proceeds. They saw them wrapping up cash and shipping it out of the area via truck. Sounds like, for this crew anyway, they weren't laundering it locally.

 

[amauet1]

You have been gracious to me in listening while
I drone on about my theories. :tyou:

There are are many knowledgeable posters like rsd1200 and others who have been number crunching on this thread since the beginning.

So Betty P I am going with the theory (I'm kinda weaseling out)the Rhodes had a local sponsor with deep pockets and very connected who acted as a cash machine to add liquidity and were helping expand their cash crop or your street drug of choice.

How this all fits I am not at all sure but your theory is as good as any others I've read. I am massaging it and trying to piece it togeather.

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Betty P I also would like to add and it's related to your post how did CRsr finance the huge newer buildings seen in the aerial shots.I would like to know if a local bank or say one in a neighboring county loaned CRsr the money. I'm pleading guilty to engaging in circular logic because it's like playing the 7 degrees from bbl link.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I absolutely do not believe CrSr might have been trying to break away on his own. That wouldn't sit well to go from working for someone who had some lucrative investments to using those investments to go out on their own. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]What if the people higher on the food chain had a 'problem' with CRsr operations and used connections and knowledge of issues on a lower totem pole to incite anger and take care of his problem. More than once I have read speculation from locals saying they thought it was a distant family member perhaps even other locals who might have signed up.

:cow:[/FONT][/FONT]

Just some thoughts. Could the Rhoden's maybe have been planning to get out of the MJ business and just deal in the cars? Rumors were around that they may have been planning to "get out" of some businesses. IMO they may have been doing this as they had already moved DR, HMR, CRjr and the babies to a newer nicer place to live. On the car thing, right before Dana died I remember they "state of Ohio" were going after her for unpaid taxes (400.00) on some car sales.

 

[amauet1]

Yes, I agree with pretty much all of this. CRSr and KR (who I think were the two running the operations with help from GR) were both busy guys, working multiple jobs (KR commuting to Columbus) while running their grow ops. They wouldn't have time, IMO, to break away and manage the whole operation on their own. I'm guessing they were more like "contractors" who controlled the product and production and wanted a decent price for their product. Like any small farmer.

Someone else was the big wholesaler handling more at the higher level. JMO, I've always been of the opinion there may have been more than one Big Boss in the area. Another I've been suspcious of is a well known family who has owned hundreds, if not thousands of acres in the area for decades. The big land owners have "land contracts" with many of the same local folks who have been busted in recent years for drug dealing and manufacturing. I've wondered if they run a sort of "sharecropping" system (for lack of a better term) where the drug makers/growers are allowed to live on the land, but must share a percentage of their profits with the landowners.

Were or are these big local wholesalers working with other organizations who handle shipping, delivery and the retail network? I get fuzzy on that part. Somewhere along the line, someone had the kind of connections that allowed them to call in a professional hit on the Rhoden family. I'm fuzzy there.

ETA: As for the "seed money" CRSr needed to build the new barn, etc., yeah, that had to have been provided somehow, from a bank or other loan. It doesn't appear he took out a mortgage on any of his real estate (IDK). that should show up in public records. He could have used it as collateral for a loan.

Someone also could have fronted him the cash to invest in the grow op in exchange for a cut of the revenue or profit. During the time CR Sr built the barn, he and his family were making ends meet, but were still very poor.

Mon*****y, W's, Adams Co National Bank

 

[Betty P]

Mon*****y, W's, Adams Co National Bank

Was there record of him getting a loan for that? I think I recall something about that. I know he got a loan/mortgage for DR's trailer.

Just for grins, do you have a link? Is this from the Adams Co treasurer or auditor web sites?

ETA: I'm asking in a friendly way, just curious. Good sleuthing, I know some of you have been all over those county sites.

 

[amauet1]

His email address alludes to health issues of feet/ankles, on the one, but the biz is stated as: Publishing of newspapers, journals and periodicals. The biz address is in a subdivision on Lake Erie. He's described as a "partner". The biz address was last sold, to the current owners, in 2004. (there's a dup of this one in the records).

He is prez of Southern Ohio Sports Med. The biz is health and medical. Only lists a P.O. Box in Peebles, and gives a phone number. The SIC is: Offices And Clinics Of Medical Doctors

He's prez of Southern Ohio Medical, Inc., in Bainbridge, too. The industry is described as: Medical and dental practice activities, Human health activities. There is no SIC code, and it has a physical location, but there's nothing there but a B&B, w/acres of farmland. Unless it's been built on the farmland, since google earth's last update? Oh, and it kinda between Pike, and Chillicothe, in the middle of nowhere.

I'd put links but not sure if I'm overstepping TOS at this level, so am erring on side of caution.

Wasn't there something in the News about Southern Ohio Medical Inc and the Mt Orab location? My memory is fuzzy on this.

 

[amauet1]

I think this is a viable theory, one we've discussed here before. The large local land owner I mentioned earlier has land contracts with many locals who have been busted for manufacturing, possession, etc. of the harder stuff. It's possible they wanted CR1 and others in the family to get involved, too. As you say, that was probably too much for DR. If they refused or tried it and backed out, they would be in big trouble.

Big question is, if they were approached to handle harder drugs by some local mogul, who was the big mogul the locals were working with?

And where does the local recreation company fit in with this?

Could they have approached CRsr who refused, but behind the families back, maybe KR took them up on it?

 

[amauet1]

This was organized well enough that a small fish in the pond could be considered a problem if that small fish might get LE looking closer at what is going on...
I wonder if RW took any vacations south of the border...

Don't know about south of the border, but didn't RW and CRsr travel to Florida off and on?

 

[amauet1]

I would agree with you that “marijuana plants in trays” would be plants not yet planted yet in the terms that the way the plants were described makes it sound like these plants were fresh sprouts from seeds and definitely not mature plants. Marijuana plants can grow to be 15 feet high, depending on the climate/circumstances they’re being grown in.

Remember the murders occured in April and right by Frankies trailer there was a frame set up, like the ones they use for young tobacco plants. They cover the frame with plastic and stick the young plants in it to grow big enough right before planting outside.

 

[amauet1]

Thanks to each of you for your posts.

March 15,2016 The CDC came out with a document
Guildline For Prescribing Opioids
http://freepdfhosting.com/c6749f69de.pdf

The Rhodes were executed Aril 26 or 27,2016. In March the Feds had turned up the heat on Clinics that were Faux Pain Mills or Faux Clinics used to distribute Rx pills. Perhaps the 'mucky ups' got nervous because they knew CRsr wanted out. The 'Pill beast' stirred up other locals who also operated lower on the 'pyramid or totem pole' to execute 'the' plan a solution for everyone's problem.You do as your told when your told was the screaming message.

This is all my speculation but I decided to work on a timeline of what we knew and the two events that meshed were the two date mentioned above.

:cow:

Rhoden's were executed April 21 or 22

 

[amauet1]

It is interesting, but I'm not sure it should have made any big boss fearful of repercussions.

As a CDC/AHRQ recommendation, it was an early phase guideline advising clinicians for whom and how they should administer prescriptions for pain meds. It's not a binding guideline, clinicians are not subject to any kind of sanction for not following it. At most, it might have a chilling effect on whether insurance companies would reimburse the provider for writing the prescriptions to patients they felt didn't meet the recommended guidelines.

I could be wrong, but I don't think CDC has the power to investigate or prosecute any clinician. JMO, from my limited knowledge, they probably wouldn't even refer anyone to an LE agency who they thought was abusing the regs. It's kinda not their "turf" so to speak. To a drug boss, it might be a warning sign that things could become more restrictive in the future, but surely not enough to justify such a crackdown.

My questions on this are:

If Rhodens and others were actually using these health care related businesses as a front to peddle pain meds, who was their PA or clinician who was writing the prescriptions?

Was their practice actually keeping patient records and filing for reimbursement from insurance/Medicare/Medicaid? That's a lot of work and a big paper trail. Or were they just selling them to patients who walked in for cash up front? I'd have to check but some pain clinics in the area who were busted had been doing that. I'm just not sure they could have been operating a pain clinic without a storefront of some kind without someone eventually noticing. Wholesale suppliers of pain meds have to keep some kind of documentation, though I guess they're not required to report much of anything to the government, I think Congress is in the process of passing laws to change that now, or trying to.

So, yeah, I don't see a CDC recommendation causing much panic at that point, but there may have been something else going on. IF CR1 and other "investors" were involved in something like this, they would need to have someone qualified to write the prescriptions, right? I don't think they could just order a bunch of Oxy from a wholesaler and turn around and sell it on the street. Or maybe they did? Jeez.

What do you all think?

Betty P. wasn't the Adams Co Health Solutions LLC made in 2009? And there is no info if it was actually in use as a medical company. Wasn't that around the time that a lot of pill mill were being discovered in Ohio? And closed down, people sent to prison and some a Dr Lake? even killed himself?

 

[amauet1]

Was there record of him getting a loan for that? I think I recall something about that. I know he got a loan/mortgage for DR's trailer.

Just for grins, do you have a link? Is this from the Adams Co treasurer or auditor web sites?

ETA: I'm asking in a friendly way, just curious. Good sleuthing, I know some of you have been all over those county sites.

I was just referring to my notes and that bank has been mentioned a lot in land deals.

 

[jennmariecle]

I feel Like this case has gone cold. I do not think they have any solid leads. It has been almost 2 years and nothing. How can 8 people get murdered and no-one be charged? Also, in today's day and age text messages, social media messages, cell phone calls.... and there is no trace of any evidence pointing to a suspect? I'm failing to believe that. Every time I've ever had any beef with anyone tjere has been text messages or something between us. So, these 8 people were brutally murdered and they didn't have any warnings or anything? C'mon