OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[MittenScarpetta]

I've thought the exact same thing with respect to their church.

http://www.ibckenai.com/our-staff.html

 

[Betty P]

And here we go on these LLC's with 1-4 employee's and land contracts. OK let me see, people in the area that have these things in common. Robin Waddell co owner of BBL shares ownership with Barry Mc Farland, has LLC's connected to Southern Ohio Healthcare.Owned/s Scioto Trading Co where Dana was selling cars. Don't know if he is involved with land contracts. Skid Montgomery, kinda of the land contract king around Pike and Scioto Co's. Owns a Flea Market in Pike Co were CRsr sold stuff. Owns Southbound Land Co. and some LLC's. Now Frediricka and George Wagner more land contracts and LLC's. CRsr was accumulating land, in LLC's Car businesses and other businesses. I have "heard " that Adams Co National Bank has "helped finance" a lot of "projects" for people, but they are a bank, and that's what they do.
All well to do business people with a lot in common it seems. How did CRsr fit in all this. Was he coming up and trying to either go legit or learning from the pro's how to look legit?

Unless there are connections between the land contract/LLC moguls that CR1 was working with and the W family moguls, these could be considered two separate groups that eventually became competitors.

If you were a big land owner in the area, with lots of property and land contracts scattered around remote locations, coincidentally in a region legendary for growing high quality MJ, there's a possibility you (or the people living on your land, or other business partners) could be involved in that business. You could have made a lot of business connections over the years, maybe even had some protection.

Then a couple of things happen: The feds start cracking down on outdoor grow ops in the area (recall some hispanic folks were caught managing 2 very large grow ops in the area around 2012 or so. Maybe that meant outdoor grow ops were too risky, so everyone started moving indoors. Seeing a business opportunity, maybe some other locals decided to get in on indoor grow ops, too. New technology, smaller operations worth just as much profit. Even with competition from other locals, you're still selling a lot of product to your big buyer.

MJ legalization is on the horizon, everyone wants to get in, suddenly things get competitive.

 

[amauet1]

Why would someone plan, rehearse and carry out the execution of 8 family members in 4 different homes over a few hundred dollars in used car sales? LE checked all the cars, none were stolen. If cars were part of the reason to take the huge risk of killing all these people, who would have done that? Who would have the resources to put such a radical plan in place, a plan that was executed so well that LE are stumped 2 years later? What would these people have been doing with these cars? Were they people involved in the sale of them? Where did they buy the cars? Was there some kind of criminal element the Rhodens came in contact with when they purchased these cars? What local criminal (possibly organized) activity was going on in the areas where they purchased these cars? Did it involve the people who bought the cars later from the Rhodens? Could they have been selling them to someone who was using them to traffick MJ or other drugs? Who are the known criminal groups who engage in this kind of activity in Ohio and the US? Who might their connections be in the Pike County area?

Remember the people associated with Chilly Loco had members who regularly drove to Mexico, Arizona and California for drug trafficking. There was a recent question about unusually large amount of mileage on the red truck owned by JM, mileage put on by the previous owner of the truck. Could that previous owner have used the truck to run drugs? Were any of the cars DR sold later used for that purpose? Seems unlikely she would have been aware of it since she was posting them for sale on social media.

Betty, again Raisin was answering my question about taxes on cars. Are you reading all the posts?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Betty, again Raisin was answering my question about taxes on cars. Are you reading all the posts?

Afaik, any WS member can interact with other posters on this thread since we’re participating in public, community discussion, right? Please correct me if I’m wrong. afaf

 

[molly1255]

If I wasn’t creeped out by all of this, I’d say I’m gonna take a short road trip and do some explorin’. But as time passes and more and more comes to light, I get more and more creeped out.

When I saw the bible publishing ministry, my mind immediately went to "Ozark" and I recalled the specific episode. A church would certainly be a good way to hide drug dealing activity and I'm sure others have already thought of this and it has been done, not with everyone in the church knowing about it, but perhaps a few.

I have always been very creeped out by this case and the combination of this case and the GSK case this past week has caused me to keep checking to make sure the alarm system is set.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Betty,

This one gives a little bit more info on who the incorporators are

https://www5.sos.state.oh.us/ords/f?p=100:7:::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:679928

Articles of Incorporation

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwservlet?imgc12g&Din=F936_0204

ETA to show what the NCCS code means. NCCS code is listed as “P73”

http://nccs.urban.org/sites/all/ncc...returnElement=&popup=0&code=P73&codeType=NTEE

Here are some things found a while back.

https://www.orgcouncil.com/ein/311173920

http://www.nonprofitfacts.com/OH/Lucasville-Mission-Inc.html

http://www.radiolineup.com/stations/WUKV-FM

Also the other W listed in the articles of incorporation you shared appears to have extensive horse farms, animal breeding, etc. further in southern Ohio. It may simply mean the love of horses for this family went well beyond Adams/Pike County so I will leave it with that. It’s only speculation on my end but I think you can put two and two together from article below.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/05/28/Fire-destroys-familys-top-show-horses/1977517636800/

There is a part of me that feels BW and AW appear to be different, or live a different life style, when compared. I wondered if they were even close to elder W’s but then noticed Flying W appeared to update their website after the move and added KuneKune pigs for sale summer of 2017. So I’m not sure.

 

[amauet1]

I think so too. Actually, it had to happen pretty quick because the 4 men who were murdered didn’t have enough time to get their own guns and defend themselves.

Personally, I think all of their doors were unlocked, which is common practice in small, rural towns. I don’t think the killer(s) had to break in or even knock to get in. Actually, I think they were welcomed in to Chris Sr.’s house.

Just have one problem with the door's being unlocked. The Rhoden's had been expereincing trouble by several different sources. Kids showing up to fight, previous fights with neighbors, fights at McDonald's, fights over traffic situation (RRL), etc. They had (kids mostly) been patroling their road with bats and weapons. And their little mj thing. That's why I think it was someone they trusted and let in, or someone burst in their homes, or someone spent the night with them. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

JW's changing story and close relationship to the victims should have been enough for LE to make him submit to a poly exam. I wonder if they even brought him in for questioning back then?

Within hours of the murders, LE should have discovered JW's possible connection to the case. Within hours, they should have been going to a judge for a search warrant to check him and his clothing for gunshot residue, etc. They probably could have gotten a search warrant for his home/farm. I wonder if they did this or if they were too focused elsewhere?

They could not force him to take a polygraph though. If they were good enough to pull this off, then within hours of the murders, they had a plan for that evidence too. Also, we don't know that they didn't talk to them either. We only know about the Ms because LM has been so vocal.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Here are some things found a while back.

https://www.orgcouncil.com/ein/311173920

http://www.nonprofitfacts.com/OH/Lucasville-Mission-Inc.html

http://www.radiolineup.com/stations/WUKV-FM

Also the other W listed in the articles of incorporation you shared appears to have extensive horse farms, animal breeding, etc. further in southern Ohio. It may simply mean the love of horses for this family went well beyond Adams/Pike County so I will leave it with that. It’s only speculation on my end but I think you can put two and two together from article below.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/05/28/Fire-destroys-familys-top-show-horses/1977517636800/

There is a part of me that feels BW and AW appear to be different, or live a different life style, when compared. I wondered if they were even close to elder W’s but then noticed Flying W appeared to update their website after the move and added KuneKune pigs for sale summer of 2017. So I’m not sure.

Also using Defiance Farms on fb

 

[rsd1200]

Didn’t LM make a statement about LE searching a nursing home on Wagner farms and pulling a blanket off of someone in bed? I can’t be imagining this. Now I’m on the hunt for the interview.

He did not say the Ws though. He said they searched a place, and took the bedding off of a bed ridden old man. He was scoffing at them about it because the man was bed ridden.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Just have one problem with the door's being unlocked. The Rhoden's had been expereincing trouble by several different sources. Kids showing up to fight, previous fights with neighbors, fights at McDonald's, fights over traffic situation (RRL), etc. They had (kids mostly) been patroling their road with bats and weapons. And their little mj thing. That's why I think it was someone they trusted and let in, or someone burst in their homes, or someone spent the night with them. JMO

Yes, you’re right. I didn’t even consider all of those things. I wonder if those doors had deadbolts or just standard trailer door locks.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

He did not say the Ws though. He said they searched a place, and took the bedding off of a bed ridden old man. He was scoffing at them about it because the man was bed ridden.

Hmmm. Maybe that was DR’s work. Although I can’t understand LE being so harsh towards someone who’s bedridden.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

When I saw the bible publishing ministry, my mind immediately went to "Ozark" and I recalled the specific episode. A church would certainly be a good way to hide drug dealing activity and I'm sure others have already thought of this and it has been done, not with everyone in the church knowing about it, but perhaps a few.

I have always been very creeped out by this case and the combination of this case and the GSK case this past week has caused me to keep checking to make sure the alarm system is set.

There’s a picture inside that church, with all the Bible’s being different colors, in one of Betty’s links above.

 

[molly1255]

There's something hinky about the anonymous church on the W family property. My mind went to the same place - Ozark.

You have to admit, theoretically, a church could be a viable "front" for some kind of drug dealing. Maybe not direct participation in it, but using it to distract attention or suspicion from LE.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw293W5uqIJrtIg1J_Z6w-HS&ust=1525652863674471

It just strikes me as odd that the pastor became such a public face for JW's family after they skedaddled to Alaska. And they already had a church set up there that the younger generation of W's had visited.

The pastor speaking for the W's also struck me as bit odd. Their skedaddling up to Alaska looked very bad for them. Sounds like he is a very close, personal friend of the W's, and in defending them in the media, I'm sure he drew some negative attention to his son's church. Very weird!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

There's something hinky about the anonymous church on the W family property. My mind went to the same place - Ozark.

You have to admit, theoretically, a church could be a viable "front" for some kind of drug dealing. Maybe not direct participation in it, but using it to distract attention or suspicion from LE.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw293W5uqIJrtIg1J_Z6w-HS&ust=1525652863674471

It just strikes me as odd that the pastor became such a public face for JW's family after they skedaddled to Alaska. And they already had a church set up there that the younger generation of W's had visited.

Per Tiff’s link she shared up thread.

The Lucasville Mission was formerly located on Maplewood street in Lucasville from 1959 thru 2006; In 2007 the Mission moved to 718 Mt Etna Road, Piketon, Ohio 45661 where it is still located. GPS 718 Mt Etna Road, Piketon 45661 or the house next door which is 799 Mt Etna Road and that will get you here. We hope those children who grew up in the Mission at Lucasville will bring their children and come join us for Mission VBS 2016. We look forward to having you here. Come as you are, everyone welcome. For more information phone 740-493-2401-or 937-892-6094. email [email protected]
By: fredericka wagner on May 23, 2016

http://www.radiolineup.com/stations/WUKV-FM

There’s the church, Betty.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/7...x8846e4e311a6f677:0x390d6d9b67256200?hl=en-us

 

[Dudly]

An absolute documented fact is when Jake gave interviews (plural & every reporter could not have head him wrong!)
JW always stated the event as he picked up Sophie a day earlier.

It is not until the 2017 interview that AW gave the same event only she changed the dates the exchange took place on s different date. AW sounds like she runs the show and everyone in the Wagner family kowtows to her. I think AW was the trouble maker in the custody despute because she wanted JW to have sole custody.

This is my opinion only. I have not came to this conclusion lightly. Please feel free to disagree. But :bee: kind.



Here it is everyone the revisionist namely AW changing the date SW was picked up. It's obvious she wants to distant the Wagners from ground zero CS.

• [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]​:cow:[/FONT]

How is it that saying goes? I know you think you know what I said, but you don't know what you heard is not what I meant...

 

[Dudly]

Just putting this here while it’s fresh on my brain. The reporter says “because they(investigators) told him(LM) that they (investigators) found a text message that James had sent Wagner at 2am”

There’s been a lot of speculation that LM learned of the text from JM. It appears that LM learned of the text from LE, not JM.



https://youtu.be/CWy3QSE9K_g

Yes, LM said that LE told him that there was a text from JM to JW. It is possible there was no text. LE might have been trying to get a reaction out of him...

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, they are. I wonder if some people use them as a means for laundering money? Who knows? It's worth looking into. It could be just a business change the W's made at that property, but never updated. Somewhere there's a listing with one of the grandparents names and a church.

I remember that but I don't know if it was a "functioning" church, or just kind of a church that came with the property, so they used it for family events. or if it's some sort of family compound. I'll also say, that not attending a parent's funeral is odd, unless financial difficulties just prevents going. It is a long way though.

 

[Betty P]

http://www.ibckenai.com/our-staff.html

It just always struck me as odd that the elder pastor of these flocks commuted back and forth with these churches in Minford, OH and the ones in AK. Maybe not odd, maybe a lot of independent ministries work this way. It's not like AK is a location for missionary work, though. IIRC, there was a news article where the elder pastor mentioned he had also traveled back to Ohio recently, kind of like he used to go back and forth on a regular basis.

http://www.ktva.com/story/36050283/info-wanted-on-family-in-connection-with-mass-killings

ETA: I also find it odd that there may be some connection to the "survivalist" business community.

 

[Betty P]

And here we go on these LLC's with 1-4 employee's and land contracts. OK let me see, people in the area that have these things in common. Robin Waddell co owner of BBL shares ownership with Barry Mc Farland, has LLC's connected to Southern Ohio Healthcare.Owned/s Scioto Trading Co where Dana was selling cars. Don't know if he is involved with land contracts. Skid Montgomery, kinda of the land contract king around Pike and Scioto Co's. Owns a Flea Market in Pike Co were CRsr sold stuff. Owns Southbound Land Co. and some LLC's. Now Frediricka and George Wagner more land contracts and LLC's. CRsr was accumulating land, in LLC's Car businesses and other businesses. I have "heard " that Adams Co National Bank has "helped finance" a lot of "projects" for people, but they are a bank, and that's what they do.
All well to do business people with a lot in common it seems. How did CRsr fit in all this. Was he coming up and trying to either go legit or learning from the pro's how to look legit?

Just thinking in a hypothetical way, I'm trying to get a big picture of how the local MJ trade and private enterprise has traditionally worked in this area.

Let's say you're a big landowner/land contract/ LLC mogul in the area. You have extensive land holdings and a lot of business relationships in a business sector where members are known to dabble in illegal trade. You live in an area that is legendary for it's production of quality MJ. At some point, people you may know or do business with establish large outdoor MJ grow ops in the area, some of it on your various properties. Everyone works together and prospers. You have good contacts, maybe powerful people who help you out if there's a problem. You have big buyers who purchase the product that comes from your properties and others. Maybe demand is so great, those buyers or others from outside the US even set up large grow ops in your area, run by people from their country.

Other growers in your area may work with different buyer networks, but all is good since there's plenty of demand and no one is getting caught. Then all of a sudden, outside LE begins busting some outdoor grow ops. They bust a couple that are being managed by those foreign bosses. Foreign cartels make the news. Things get hot for the local moguls.

In response, and due to improved technology, the grow ops move indoors where those federal planes flying over can't spot them. Due to the shift, maybe some new entrepreneurs decide to get in on the business. Instead of needing a lot of remote real estate, they can build an op inside a barn or underground, growing stronger weed, with just as much profit in a smaller space. In the meantime, fed LE activity is ramping up due to all the pill mills and flood of oxy into the area. In 2015, there's a possibility of legalized MJ, so everyone positions themselves to go legit. Competition increases.

Big busts start happening like Chilly Loco. Suddenly you and your competitors are aren't friendly anymore. You become paranoid about what the other moguls are up to, but you still have your contacts in powerful positions who are helping you. Then something happens involving one of the newer upstarts in the area. They're causing problems for you and, with all the increased LE activity, it's time to do something. Maybe your big buyers are nervous about what's going on and fear more arrests, more people talking to LE. Maybe the same thing is happening with the big buyers of your competitors. There's a fear that both competing groups are about to have more problems with the law. Your contacts in LE are getting nervous, too. So someone talks to someone and the upstart troublemakers are taken out and your upstart competitive mogul is squelched, but so is everyone else. Legalized MJ is now the law, so everyone in the old group lays low or moves out of town.

In this hypothetical scenario, I'm just using MJ grow ops, but other drugs could also be involved.

ETA: The 2017 DEA Threat Assessment also has some interesting information about money laundering and how some of the big players do it. Probably in the old days it wasn't laundered on the west coast, but through local businesses. They say more of the big players today are using bitcoin to launder drug money.