OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #34 *Arrests*

[Betty P]

It's pretty much the same here. You see more deaths in the larger cities of course, but it's thick all throughout our region, on this side of the line. It's going to take the people coming together to make the region appealing to new industry and job growth because the government doesn't give a flying flip about us. Neither side.

And get better leaders. Root out corruption
Not allow themselves to be tricked and distracted by other stuff

As much as many people would like to help out, there's not much we can do. Declining education and the growth of "home schooling" is also troubling as some young folks won't have the necessary education or understanding of economic, legal and political systems to take care of their own communities.

 

[Dudly]

Oh, yes. It's most definitely a crisis across the state. It's a nightmare. Lots of public debate this election season on how to best deal with the problem. It appears the state is losing this battle for now, but hopefully it will turn around.

The opiod crisis began many years ago and cycled through the urban areas of Ohio. Leaders sort of wrote it off as something all those violent criminals, prostitutes and "lowlifes" do in the big city (definitely not my opinion, just repeating what I heard). They were pretty much unprepared when it moved into those God-fearing, all American suburbs and rural areas.

The spread into the rural areas and small towns coincided with a massive shift of hundreds of thousands of jobs from those Ohio towns to overseas countries. There were no new jobs to replace them. High unemployment, economic collapse, budget cuts to small towns and counties.

A lot of mistakes were made and continue to be made. I wish I could help these people and communities, the solutions are out there. It's going to involve a different approach. But these people and their leaders will have to come to that realization on their own. They're not listening to those offering advice, so...

I agree. At first they thought it was alright if the druggies were killing themselves because, after all, they were just "druggies". Then it started getting close to home. People they knew that weren't just "druggies" were dying from overdoses. Then they started thinking something should be done. By the time they decided something needs to be done, it was already a crisis situation. I really do not know how it will get controlled. There will always be someone willing to make a buck selling the stuff. There is virtually no way to keep it from getting into the country....

 

[Dudly]

That's why I included the ATF link above. They don't have as much detail as the DEA reports, but their press releases and some firearms data are helpful. Worth following. I'm on board with this, but admit it wasn't on my radar for a while. I assumed the fact we have almost zero gun regulations enforced in the US that the bad guys can pretty much buy whatever they want, whenever, in any quantity in most states. Is it just that they want them for free? I suppose so.

ETA: link to UPS gun thefts news story - happened in Memphis

2 men broke into a Memphis UPS store and stole 400 guns, police say - CNN

Hundreds of the stolen guns were recovered in Illinois

ATF Chicago on Twitter

Looking for a Roland Jackson of Chicago

ETA: Interesting that ATF were able to grab some of the guys and intercept the guns so quickly. Assume they have good informant networks and a good idea of what's already going on in that little universe of gun smuggling.

With ATF in charge, things have gone quickly and smoothly. Latest news says all the guns have been recovered

About 400 guns stolen from Tennessee recovered in Chicago suburb; 1 suspect at large

Want them for free to sell for a good profit underground. Chicago sure does not need more guns, that is for sure...

 

[rsd1200]

And get better leaders. Root out corruption
Not allow themselves to be tricked and distracted by other stuff

As much as many people would like to help out, there's not much we can do. Declining education and the growth of "home schooling" is also troubling as some young folks won't have the necessary education or understanding of economic, legal and political systems to take care of their own communities.

Easier said than done. No matter what party one aligns with, many folks are busy focusing on their income, feeding their family, and trying to keep the lights on. A lot don't have access to high speed internet, or wifi, etc..., they tend to listen to the nightly news of their choice, and, when promises fail, again, it's not that surprising. They just keep on, keepin' on, the best they can. Dealing starts to look tempting, and/or drug use just to escape. Whole families. Parents, helping their children tie off, after they each discover the other is an addict too. It's just pitiful. Folks carrying everything they own, along with them, in a black garbage bag, surfing from couch to couch. Black Garbage Bag, is the new Samsonite. We are losing a generation.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. At first they thought it was alright if the druggies were killing themselves because, after all, they were just "druggies". Then it started getting close to home. People they knew that weren't just "druggies" were dying from overdoses. Then they started thinking something should be done. By the time they decided something needs to be done, it was already a crisis situation. I really do not know how it will get controlled. There will always be someone willing to make a buck selling the stuff. There is virtually no way to keep it from getting into the country....

Bingo. And there will always be customers. If there were no customers out there searching high and lo, for such stuff, in part thanks to the govt. messing with folks' caregivers/prescriptions, there'd be no sellers taking the risk. Like a LEO told me one time, no one forces them to search that stuff out. If they want it, they find it all on their own.

 

[pepper 34]

I would like to see industries and other large businesses receive large incentives, tax cuts, whatever, to move to rural areas. If you remove people's access to gainful employment you will always see the types of problems you see in rural areas. California has the tech industry almost completely locked up... yet, didn't someone write that the Piketon area has a uranium plant where they can work while getting sick? It's almost hard sometimes to see this sort of distribution of industry as a random and unfortunate accident. Remember when they discovered the massive amounts of opioids LEGALLY flooding certain rural Ohio and Kentucky areas? Yes... hard to see it as random sometimes. The problem with solving this huge problem is that, in order to do this, (and I know you all know this) ...you have to have connections way, way up there. You have to dismantle from the top while working from the bottom, too.

 

[Betty P]

I would like to see industries and other large businesses receive large incentives, tax cuts, whatever, to move to rural areas. If you remove people's access to gainful employment you will always see the types of problems you see in rural areas. California has the tech industry almost completely locked up... yet, didn't someone write that the Piketon area has a uranium plant where they can work while getting sick? It's almost hard sometimes to see this sort of distribution of industry as a random and unfortunate accident. Remember when they discovered the massive amounts of opioids LEGALLY flooding certain rural Ohio and Kentucky areas? Yes... hard to see it as random sometimes. The problem with solving this huge problem is that, in order to do this, (and I know you all know this) ...you have to have connections way, way up there. You have to dismantle from the top while working from the bottom, too.

We tried that and it hasn't worked. Ohio has given away billions of our taxpayer funds to companies that still shipped jobs overseas. (JOBS Ohio, aka ROBS Ohio). Billions of dollars taxpayer funds given to a private "non-profit" corporation that supposedly doles it out for economic incentives, but never reports on how they spend it.

The evidence has been in for years - tax cuts don't create jobs or improve the economy.

Maybe we can't help these people. The solutions are out there. Stuff that has been proven successful. People just get brainwashed.

Rooting out corruption is the first step.
There are people who can be good leaders and who know how to fix these problems. They may not be the people you like or they may be different, but they can help. If people don't want to do that, there's nothing the rest of us can do to help. Sadly, failure is a good teacher.

 

[rsd1200]

We tried that and it hasn't worked. Ohio has given away billions of our taxpayer funds to companies that still shipped jobs overseas. (JOBS Ohio, aka ROBS Ohio). Billions of dollars taxpayer funds given to a private "non-profit" corporation that supposedly doles it out for economic incentives, but never reports on how they spend it.

The evidence has been in for years - tax cuts don't create jobs or improve the economy.

Maybe we can't help these people. The solutions are out there. Stuff that has been proven successful. People just get brainwashed.

Rooting out corruption is the first step.
There are people who can be good leaders and who know how to fix these problems. They may not be the people you like or they may be different, but they can help. If people don't want to do that, there's nothing the rest of us can do to help. Sadly, failure is a good teacher.

I don't think it's brainwashing, I think that when you are poor, (been there), you mostly think about how to get by to the next check. It's not because you don't care and don't know who is pulling the strings. What little income you have, you'd like to keep. Also, a lot of folks are isolated. If you want to run to the grocery, or doctor, or school meeting, in the city, you have various options. In Appalachia, you best have a vehicle and be prepared to drive a spell. We have grassroots organizations who are trying to bring about change, but, without some large, private foundation, or gov., funding, it'll take so long, that the change will be archaic by the time they get their visions completed.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree. At first they thought it was alright if the druggies were killing themselves because, after all, they were just "druggies". Then it started getting close to home. People they knew that weren't just "druggies" were dying from overdoses. Then they started thinking something should be done. By the time they decided something needs to be done, it was already a crisis situation. I really do not know how it will get controlled. There will always be someone willing to make a buck selling the stuff. There is virtually no way to keep it from getting into the country....

Truth. Addiction does not discriminate-it affects all social classes and all walks of life. Every addict is someone’s daughter or son, friend, family member. And sadly, every dealer wants a paycheck.

 

[pepper 34]

"Billions of dollars taxpayer funds given to a private "non-profit" corporation that supposedly doles it out for economic incentives, but never reports on how they spend it."
Well, little wonder a slush fund like this would benefit the first pockets any money settled into. Setting it up this way was nothing more than a scam.

 

[Dudly]

A friend worked at a place in Ohio that got reimbursed part of the wages if they hired people on the welfare dole. It was a glass recycling plant and the hired help had to pick off non glass items from a conveyor after the stuff went through a washer. He said a few lasted a day, most never came back from lunch, and some never came back from the first break...

 

[IceIce9]

Truth. Addiction does not discriminate-it affects all social classes and all walks of life. Every addict is someone’s daughter or son, friend, family member. And sadly, every dealer wants a paycheck.

A good friend of mine has a daughter who is addicted to heroin. The daughter has had three babies, each was born addicted. The first baby was born four years ago, and after spending two or three months in the neonatal intensive care unit was released as a ward of the state as his mom was still on heroin. My friend and her husband had to apply to adopt him and after months were awarded full custody. The daughter wasn’t even allowed to come to their home, she was only allowed supervised visits when a social worker was present.

The second baby was born exactly a year ago. A tiny little girl, addicted to heroin, was in NICU for several months and then my friend and her husband adopted her. Same process.

The third baby, another little girl, was just born a couple of days ago. Mom had managed to pass weekly drug screens for the past few months and claimed she was off drugs. Because of this she had been able to have unsupervised overnight visitation with both kids.

It became apparent she was still on heroin when the new baby was born addicted. And yes, my friend is applying to adopt this baby too.

This young woman (I think she is 25 now) has been in expensive private rehab several times, paid for by her parents. She has also been in court-ordered rehab in another facility a few times after ending up in jail.

She can’t stay off heroin even while pregnant. A perfect example of addiction affecting all social classes.

 

[pepper 34]

A friend worked at a place in Ohio that got reimbursed part of the wages if they hired people on the welfare dole. It was a glass recycling plant and the hired help had to pick off non glass items from a conveyor after the stuff went through a washer. He said a few lasted a day, most never came back from lunch, and some never came back from the first break...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You know the trouble for some people? If they work, they actually receive a smaller monthly income than if they don't work and just remain on assistance. They lose benefits, as well, such as food stamps, or rental assistance cuts back. People can get education costs subsidized while on assistance but, in rural areas, they may not be able to find jobs they've prepared for by going to school. They can commute, maybe but now they have to keep a car on the road financially. It's hard to get a solid start and very difficult to break out of the cycle when options are limited and, in a way, you get "financially punished" for making a go of it.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

A good friend of mine has a daughter who is addicted to heroin. The daughter has had three babies, each was born addicted. The first baby was born four years ago, and after spending two or three months in the neonatal intensive care unit was released as a ward of the state as his mom was still on heroin. My friend and her husband had to apply to adopt him and after months were awarded full custody. The daughter wasn’t even allowed to come to their home, she was only allowed supervised visits when a social worker was present.

The second baby was born exactly a year ago. A tiny little girl, addicted to heroin, was in NICU for several months and then my friend and her husband adopted her. Same process.

The third baby, another little girl, was just born a couple of days ago. Mom had managed to pass weekly drug screens for the past few months and claimed she was off drugs. Because of this she had been able to have unsupervised overnight visitation with both kids.

It became apparent she was still on heroin when the new baby was born addicted. And yes, my friend is applying to adopt this baby too.

This young woman (I think she is 25 now) has been in expensive private rehab several times, paid for by her parents. She has also been in court-ordered rehab in another facility a few times after ending up in jail.

She can’t stay off heroin even while pregnant. A perfect example of addiction affecting all social classes.

That’s heartbreaking. Prayers to your friend and their family. I’ve lost too many to addiction. To love an addict is to run out of tears.

 

[rsd1200]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You know the trouble for some people? If they work, they actually receive a smaller monthly income than if they don't work and just remain on assistance. They lose benefits, as well, such as food stamps, or rental assistance cuts back. People can get education costs subsidized while on assistance but, in rural areas, they may not be able to find jobs they've prepared for by going to school. They can commute, maybe but now they have to keep a car on the road financially. It's hard to get a solid start and very difficult to break out of the cycle when options are limited and, in a way, you get "financially punished" for making a go of it.

A young person I know is raising four children, who aren't hers (due to their parents' drug use), in addition to her own two children, has recently recovered from a terrible illness, during which, she got divorced, her employer fired her, so she lost her vehicle, and is now bumming rides to a job that does not pay her enough to obtain a stable vehicle, $8.25 hr., to get to something better. She's got a college degree... :/ She tries to stay upbeat though.

 

[rsd1200]

That’s heartbreaking. Prayers to your friend and their family. I’ve lost too many to addiction. To love an addict is to run out of tears.

Amen, to your entire post.

 

[Betty P]

Here's an interesting article I just came across about a group of MJ growers in rural MI. The digital magazine is the same one that published the most recent article about the Rhoden Murders. It highlights the adversarial role between town police and people who grow pot in rural areas.

Rainbow Farm: The domestic siege that time forgot

The standoff lasted all weekend. Crosslin would die that Monday, Sept. 3. Cox remembers what happened next vividly. “It was very early the following morning, and as I’m taking trash out to the dumpster, I have a police officer running at me, telling me ‘you need to get back in your house right now!’” she said. “And I remember absolutely losing it and saying, ‘well why do I need to go back in my house right now, you’ve already shot my neighbor, what more can you do?’

“And at the time that I said that ... there were gunshots fired.”

ETA: The Michigan Militia was involved in providing security for Rainbow Farm.

Crosslin thought the government was after him as well, which sounds paranoid if it weren’t true. It should be no surprise then that the militia-minded crossed paths with some of the more out-there marijuana advocates of the day. And while the Michigan Militia, an iteration of which gets a little limelight every couple of years, served as security for two of the festivals, their hyper-tactical vigilance — while used and appreciated — tended to be a buzzkill to the many peaceniks in attendance, Crosslin included. Plus, they had wanted to arm themselves, a request that was denied. Leinbach said they were still welcome, and many returned as paying customers.

 

[Dudly]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You know the trouble for some people? If they work, they actually receive a smaller monthly income than if they don't work and just remain on assistance. They lose benefits, as well, such as food stamps, or rental assistance cuts back. People can get education costs subsidized while on assistance but, in rural areas, they may not be able to find jobs they've prepared for by going to school. They can commute, maybe but now they have to keep a car on the road financially. It's hard to get a solid start and very difficult to break out of the cycle when options are limited and, in a way, you get "financially punished" for making a go of it.

I live in a fairly rural area of Ohio. The two largest employers have closed down in recent years. Most of the remaining are low wage jobs. I know someone that will be out of work after sixteen years with the company because they are closing. His wife has MS and his insurance does not cover all the medical expenses now. He said unemployment will pay almost double what most local jobs pay, but with no insurance. He said besides the pay cut he may need to take, it will cost more for insurance with less coverage. He may need to sell his house they have been remodeling the last few years. The bad part is there are people in worse situations. I can see the lure of selling pot and or drugs for necessary income....

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree. At first they thought it was alright if the druggies were killing themselves because, after all, they were just "druggies". Then it started getting close to home. People they knew that weren't just "druggies" were dying from overdoses. Then they started thinking something should be done. By the time they decided something needs to be done, it was already a crisis situation. I really do not know how it will get controlled. There will always be someone willing to make a buck selling the stuff. There is virtually no way to keep it from getting into the country....

IMO education is the key. That education needs to begin at home.
Remember the "stranger danger" movement? When parents began teaching their kids it was not okay to take candy from strangers? As a result no child will allow a stranger to approach them, because parents pounded into their heads what happens to little kids who let a stranger near them. All the horror stories parents could think of went into their kids minds.

From the time your children understand start teaching them the horrible effects of drugs. Make them afraid to try it even one time. Preach at them over and over that all it takes is one pill to get addicted. Reinforce that all through the formative years that drugs are evil incarnate and just touching them can lead to death. Teach them that all doctors are not right. That if a doctor gives them pain pills make sure they are warranted and the lowest dose possible. Scare them so they never forget that drugs are death.

Get involved in your children's school. Make sure the teachers are reinforcing the message you are preaching to your kids at home.

IMO the increase in home schooling is the parents way of trying to control the bad things kids can be exposed to in school. The 100% control over their kids during the elementary stage in school is effective if used properly. Kids who are home schooled can score higher on SAT's and have lower rates of drug use. But it takes work on the part of the parents.

IMO a little bit of irrational fear in your kids is much better than losing them to a drug overdose.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

A good friend of mine has a daughter who is addicted to heroin. The daughter has had three babies, each was born addicted. The first baby was born four years ago, and after spending two or three months in the neonatal intensive care unit was released as a ward of the state as his mom was still on heroin. My friend and her husband had to apply to adopt him and after months were awarded full custody. The daughter wasn’t even allowed to come to their home, she was only allowed supervised visits when a social worker was present.

The second baby was born exactly a year ago. A tiny little girl, addicted to heroin, was in NICU for several months and then my friend and her husband adopted her. Same process.

The third baby, another little girl, was just born a couple of days ago. Mom had managed to pass weekly drug screens for the past few months and claimed she was off drugs. Because of this she had been able to have unsupervised overnight visitation with both kids.

It became apparent she was still on heroin when the new baby was born addicted. And yes, my friend is applying to adopt this baby too.

This young woman (I think she is 25 now) has been in expensive private rehab several times, paid for by her parents. She has also been in court-ordered rehab in another facility a few times after ending up in jail.

She can’t stay off heroin even while pregnant. A perfect example of addiction affecting all social classes.

IMO the first step her parents need to take is use the money spent for rehab to have the girl's tubes tied so she cannot bring anymore children addicted to drugs into this world. That to me is the height of cruelty to children. Those babies do not have a choice. Their mother is making that choice for them before they are even born. That is criminal child abuse. The agony and pain of withdrawal from heroin is their welcome into the world. It is just not fair. It is cruel. The parents need to end that instead of blindly accepting each grandchild she produces.

JMO