GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #1

[LisaB]

A friend of mine who went to college in Central New York was raped. The guy admitted in court that he liked hurting women. Before she called the police she cried for ten hours and that was used against her. Why didn't she call sooner?

(snip)

She told me more than once; "I know it's kinda my fault for putting myself in that situation." (She never expanded on that and I never asked. It doesn't matter.) Every time she'd say that I'd make her look me in the eyes and I'd tell her it wasn't her fault for ANY reason.

You are a wonderful friend. I wish every victim had someone like you to turn to for moral support.

 

[erik28]

I think the probable cause document makes it clear that this young woman was either beyond drunk or was drugged or both, not just "staggering and appeared intoxicated". It appears she was throwing up on and off for hours until she was eventually not even moving no matter what was said or done.

(This turned into a massive post, but I've really been holding back my personal views and I just can't squeeze them into a paragraph or two.)

I agree that the unedited probable cause documents clarifies that at least one witness, if not more (I haven't read and analysed the whole document) testified to what you described above.

I'd like to clarify that I was not disputing that Jane Doe was likely incapacitated and unable to legally consent to sexual acts. I was disputing that there was direct evidence that the fact of her incapacitation due to self-initiated drunkenness had been established in a legal document. In the probable cause document, Madison, lawyer for MR, says on page 249 in his closing statements, "she voluntarily got herself intoxicated," and it is clear that he is hoping to establish that any incapacitation and resultant sexual contact was her responsibility.

Jane Doe made statements to the police about what happened in this case, and those statements are not currently part of the public record. But I haven't seen anywhere where she is reported to have said (or that anyone witnessed) something like, ~I drank 8 beers in an hour and that's how I became incapacitated~ It seems there is much more testimony from eye witnesses that post-Bellardine house, Jane Doe wasn't seen consuming anything and no one else has testified as to how much she drank, just how "intoxicated" she seemed.

I know that an individual can consume a large quantity of alcohol quickly and have it affect them re: incapacitation over a period of hours, even though they are no longer consuming acohol. I also know that various drugs imbibed voluntarily or otherwise, especially in concert with any amount of alcohol can produce similar symptoms of intoxication. To me, a fact of Jane Doe's drunkeness would be a Blood Alcohol Level or self-admission of quantities consumed over time.

I personally do not believe that how Jane Doe became incapacitated is germane to her ability to consent, but obviously Madison and others do. I'd like to believe that Ohio law is also not concerned with how it came about, but rather the degree of incapacitation and hence ability to legally give informed consent at the time of sexual contact. I'm not at all familiar with Ohio law on that point though. I hate to see it become a part of the public awareness of this case that Jane Doe was incapacitated because she "got herself drunk," when that hasn't been proven as the cause. I know that if incapacitated by alcohol she still can't legally consent and that she is not responsible for the assault no matter how much or how quickly she had been drinking.

But when we are talking about "narratives" here- the story of what happened to Jane Doe in Steubenville (and by association the story of what type of people the male juveniles are), it is being driven by those alleged to have committed crimes and their representatives and supporters who have created an unsubstantiated picture of a Jane Doe who got herself too drunk, consented to various sex acts with at least two football players, and regretted it when her parents found out. If there is any substance to the revenge plot put forward at Local Leaks, this is exactly the result such a plot would aim for. Even if a court of law determines that the accused are guilty of rape, the story that will unfortunately remain in the minds of many, and likely the story that the accused will perpetuate, is that it is all Jane Doe's fault, because she wanted to get drunk and party.

It seems clear that Jane Doe was incapacitated and unable to legally consent, it seems unclear how she got that way.

 

[time]

erik28...


"I agree that the unedited probable cause documents clarifies that at least one witness, if not more (I haven't read and analysed the whole document) testified to what you described above."

I believe the testimony is quite substantial in support that she was incapacitated totally when she was raped - rape is described int he document by someone as the finger assault. I'm relieved the poor girl didn't die. It's obvious she could not have given consent and nearly impossible to believe she would give pre-consent to this kind of activity at all. The documents make it clear that this woman was totally incapacitated when fingers were in her vagina and a penis was flopped onto her thigh... and photographed.

Of course some will point out that she may have had something or even a lot to drink herself, but in this case, it's not a he said/she said thing about a couple ending up in an apartment alone together.

I just don't think "Ohio" law makes any difference in this case... it's not an iffy gray area that can be explained away by the defendants lawyers in any way. The gray area probably does include if this was pre-planned.

I think what's most important about this case is that it is so public and hopefully promotes discussion and learning. These kids behavior is abominable, but the question is "Why did THEY think this was ok?"

 

[hollyjokers]

I hope I have not come across as blaming the victim for drinking too much and wanting to party. That was not my intent. Reading the full transcript I feel while it is not what has been portrayed by bloggers, but nor has Lee Stranahan painted a complete picture of the events. The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes. There is a lesson here in how kids & alcohol can turn a good time into something very ugly for all involved.

I think there are a lot of parents who remember their parents butting into their ability to have a good time as teenagers have gone the other way. "if you're going to drink, I'd rather you do it here" type of BS, & co-ed sleepovers for high schoolers. The 'cool' moms & dads are then the first to say, "not my child!" when trouble turns up.

 

[Steely Dan]

I just wasted half an hour of my life on the Stranahan blog listening to his podcast. It is supposed to be an overview of the Steubenville rape case story and how "the media and Anonymous have gotten it totally wrong"

http://stranahaninexile.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/podcast-steubenville-101/

In case anyone wants to save themselves the time:

It is basically 30 minutes of Stranahan repeating the claims in the media and saying "not true." "simply not true." "Didn't happen." "Lies."

No evidence, no logic to counter the allegations. Just "not true."

Stranahan believes the accusations of gang rape are "a myth" and that allegations the case was mishandled are part of a vast "conspiracy theory". He does believe that the girl was raped by two guys, and that others stood around and took photos and videos. But that crime, he says is "not heinous" and is not a newsworthy story.

He also talks quite a bit about Anonymous, who he seems to think consists of three people: A criminal, a fugitive and a teenager, who have personal vendettas against him and the authorities in this case, and wear masks from a Natalie Portman movie. lol.

He concludes with this little nugget of wisdom about media -- on why "the left" is (mis)reporting this story:





My opinion only!

From post;

The narrative that they have here is about football culture and rape culture. And really, football culture substitutes for America. What they're attacking is AMERICA. You know?

Just astounding. :banghead: That, to me, just proves that sports are far more important to society than they should be.

:thud: How can these people live with themselves? I just can't believe how many people have this warped sense of right/wrong. How did it get so bad in this community? Has this been happening for years with the football team? And if so, is this why so many people stand by and look the other way? Because school, government, community leaders vouch for the players no matter what? This is just wrong and very sick.

It's the parents and the football culture. These kids are treated like Gods in their small towns. Slaps on the wrist for serious crimes are the norm, JMO

What in the world is going on in this small town?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ming-plastic-boxes-sealed-shut-duct-tape.html



The 2 uncles are young - I bet they went to "Big Red" High school. Wonder what Sheriff Abdalla is saying about this one?




JMHO

:tsktsk:

 

[AbbeyR]

Most of what was in the transcript (including the victim's name, unfortunately) I had already read online. For me reading it just confirmed that the questions raised about the case were legitimate.

It also left me with a few more questions, especially about the role of Jane Hanlin, the 'deals' and some of the questions permitted at the preliminary hearing. I don't want to reference the unredacted document, so I'm going to leave it at that for now, but I think these are important issues that speak to some key problems with how sexual assault cases are handled. I hate to see people turning this case into a debate over the role of Anonymous (or bloggers, alcohol, sports or whatever else) and losing sight of these issues, because there is potential here for change and reform that could go beyond Steubenville, IMO.

Above all, I'm sorry the victim had to go through this, and that she wasn't better protected by the people she thought were her friends, by the boys who posted her name, photos and videos online, by the parents and coaches who didn't notice or didn't care, by LE, by the DA, by the town gossips, by everyone who was after a story, and even by the activists and concerned citizens who have been trying to seek justice for her. I hope she has a great support system and is strengthened by knowing that there are a lot of people around the world who are behind her, and that her story will make a difference.

 

[AbbeyR]

FWIW, I agree with this commentary:

The public and groups such as Anonymous have a right and a duty to hold the government accountable for injustice, especially when the mainstream media stays silent. With hope, protesters will continue to mount pressure on officials in the Steubenville case and if justice is still not served, the victim should consider filing a Title IX complaint with the Department of Education against the Steubenville School Department for failing to take action against the students involved, as well as a complaint against the police and prosecutors with the Department of Justice for failing to file appropriate criminal charges. Both federal agencies exist to protect against gender discrimination by government officials, an important example of which is the unjust failure to provide legal redress to victims of sexual assault.

Whether we call it vigilantism or democracy in action, activism in support of openness and accountability in police and prosecutorial decision-making is just what we need right now to get out of a do-nothing legal rut that gives perpetrators a pass while victims are retraumatized by a seemingly indifferent society.

http://womensenews.org/story/commen...e-style-tech-puts-rapists-gotcha#.UQHumfI1DTp

 

[Lois Lane]

STEUBENVILLE - News media from around the country were expected to be in a Jefferson County Justice Center juvenile courtroom this afternoon arguing that an upcoming trial for two Steubenville High School student-athletes charged with rape should be kept open.

But, an attorney for one of the juveniles who has been charged, the victim's lawyer and Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine are expected to argue the trial should be closed to the media and the public.

http://www.hsconnect.com/page/content.detail/id/582513/Rape-case-hearing-today.html?nav=5010

 

[hollyjokers]

No decision until next week on closing trial.

http://wap.wtov9.com/wap/news/text....1&ith=0&title=Local+News&headtitle=Local+News

Was watching Superbad on basic cable & this bit jumped out at me:

Evan: Yeah, but if I get with her when she's smashed like that, isn't that, like, unethical?

Gabi: Not if you're drunk too.

Is that a perception that is out there? Rachel Dissel mentioned in the radio interview that there was no dating/relationship ed at SHS. I have never been able to watch Jersey Shore, but have to wonder if some teens are taking cues from these types of movies & tv shows. Don't hammer me: I believe the evidence showed she was clearly raped.

 

[movielover]

I read the docs. Here is my take, no notes.

She was either extremely drunk, or drugged. She clearly was not in control. (Has the BCI or FBI tested the carpets at numerous houses, to see if there was a drug present?) The Defense is trying to say that "she made a decision". I guess that's his job. He was trying very hard to trip up the investigators, and blowing up small items into huge issues.

I think that all three of the boys / young men who testify are lying through their teeth. There are so many times when they are asked simple questions and they say, "I don't know", "I went into the house and I didn't see anything", or "I didn't see that picture" or "He didn't tell me anything". An outrageous statement was when the Prosecuting Attorney asked one of the guys who the other 2 naked pictures were on his phone, and one or two replied, "I never saw those pictures." They're on YOUR PHONE!! and YOU'RE 17!!!! Incredible!! (Naked, face down, same carpeting.)

The lack of pictures and info seems to be that there was a mass deletion program in place. I think at least one parent was involved. (Another article.) For kids who are "so connected", it is like there is a mass Star Trek memory erase program in play. It's called LYING and CYA. They're just giving the prosecuting attorney enough so they can get a small conviction on 2 guys, who are under 18.

Two of the guys who are getting immunity, testified, under oath, that the only reason they got off was b/c the photos they had on their phones were deleted. If they testified to having the pictures, why can't they convict them!!??

One Mother was home, or came home to the party, and told them that the victim would be kicked out b/c she was thowing up. Where is her compassion? Empathy? Responsibility? Why isn't SHE charged??

The assistant coach who has been tarnished immediatedly kicked everyone out of his house (party).

Jane Hanlin's son seemed to be at one party. Lots of the kids seem to be Italian-American.

This junk is part of this generation: I promise you that the iPhone, absent parents, and rap music are base issues here. There appears to be little morality in the face of popular athletes - WRESTLERS and football players.

Several young girls / "friends" were present. One guy who supposedly was "talking to her" (hook up sex?), but not really "in a relationship", saw what went on, but did NOTHING! Though he claimed he "cared for her".

The investigator on this case at first obtained 8 cell phones, which means that if the word wasn't already out, it got out, and the other 8-9-10 had time to delete anything they wanted.

I saw another picture, not a part of this specific incident, that seems to show the victim passed out on another (kitchen) floor? Not sure if drunk, or a hoax.

The Defense will try to get off on a technicality. Only one of the three actually saw the 'digital penetration' by MR. He may be smeared.

 

[hollyjokers]

I think the mother just came down & said anyone not staying the night had to leave. We don't yet know if she was aware the victim was in that condition (could she have been in the bathroom, appeared to be sleeping, or just sitting on couch not doing anything to draw attention to herself). JH is the one who said he wanted her out of there. This was why she was being ridiculed by the other kids, IMO. She was throwing up and passing out: a liability for the other underage partiers. The girls may not have been too inclined to help her since she was the out-of-towner who was "taking" all of their guys.
MC only ever saw her with her bra still on, panties, and oh yeah, shorts, definitely shorts still on. Hmmm, odd indeed. The cell phone pictures exchange was puzzling, and another thing that stuck out to me. MC going to bed: he says he came back from JH's 'again' w/FM & finds MR asleep in his bed. Did he leave the 3 alone in his house and go back to the other party for a bit? The detective testified that MC was not present for the video.

Stranahan tweeted that at the hearing today prosecutors called the video inadmissible & irrelevant. Even I am surprised by this. FWIW: AC is the Italian looking boy on the couch in the video. I believe he is one of the ones who gets very agitated at the jokes, while EM testified he was too upset, in shock to help and just wanted to get away, then filmed MN & laughed like a hyena.

 

[believe09]

prosecutors called the video inadmissible & irrelevant.

Let's say the source of the tweet had this statement correct, for the sake of argument. I can see why prosecutors might do this-this video is going to whip the jury up just like it did to anyone who viewed it. They are going to want to punish someone. They are going to see drunk/high kids with access to weapons relishing the debasement of another human being. And they are going to want to know why there were no charges attached to the people involved in it. And it might even make the jurors question the prosecutors competency and lend to some kind of conspiracy/cover up belief.

However, fwiw, I think it is very important evidence. It corroberates, to some degree, the assault claims and it confirms the presence of pictures etc. It discusses, IIRC, the victim being carried and her inability to consent seeing as how she is "dead". IMO.

So to me it seems more about some face saving for the prosecutors, but that is just because I think MN is :censored:.

 

[AbbeyR]

I think that all three of the boys / young men who testify are lying through their teeth. There are so many times when they are asked simple questions and they say, "I don't know", "I went into the house and I didn't see anything", or "I didn't see that picture" or "He didn't tell me anything". An outrageous statement was when the Prosecuting Attorney asked one of the guys who the other 2 naked pictures were on his phone, and one or two replied, "I never saw those pictures." They're on YOUR PHONE!! and YOU'RE 17!!!! Incredible!! (Naked, face down, same carpeting.)

The lack of pictures and info seems to be that there was a mass deletion program in place. I think at least one parent was involved. (Another article.) For kids who are "so connected", it is like there is a mass Star Trek memory erase program in play. It's called LYING and CYA. They're just giving the prosecuting attorney enough so they can get a small conviction on 2 guys, who are under 18.

Two of the guys who are getting immunity, testified, under oath, that the only reason they got off was b/c the photos they had on their phones were deleted. If they testified to having the pictures, why can't they convict them!!??

Agreed. I still don't understand how it's possible these guys could have been given a deal and the fact that this has been denied makes me even more suspicious. Keep in mind, Hanlin had already seen the evidence at that point, including info from the victim's parents that had social media info, printouts from Twitter, and the video, right? Her own son drove EW to a party that night, and was involved in those conversations on twitter. Remember "I would keep my mouth closed bang bang!"? Retweeted by TM? That was him.

If the video is not admissible, the court will hear the "yes ma'am, no ma'am" answers and, for example, EW's version of events wherein he is the responsible friend, merely driving around the boys who were under the influence to keep them safe. They will not hear the part where he is practically begging MD to give more details about how "Dead" the rape victim is, how "dry" she is, laughing off and dismissing others allegations that she was raped, or him eagerly vowing to watch that video every single day.

Disgusted.

Edited to add: That the video isn't admissible doesn't really matter though if EW, MD and others are not facing charges. They don't need the video against the two boys accused of rape because they already have witnesses to testify about their current charges. The video is just one of those witnesses (EW) who is already testifying to seeing one of the assaults happen talking to someone who denies they were actually there (MD).

One problem with this case, as someone mentioned earlier, is that aside from not actually having the photo and video evidence of the actual assault (since it was deleted), there is an idea that if it wasn't caught on video, it didn't happen. Most sexual assaults, obviously, are not caught on video. According to the witnesses on the MD video, it does not sound like the assault was limited to what is came out in the court transcript.

 

[Jacobite]

Ohio has a very rich history as a leader in women's rights. But, not now! This is a disgrace! This school should be banned by the State from competing in sports for 5 years.
That's what would happen where I live. Disgusting!

 

[hollyjokers]

@Believe09: That seemed like a reasonable theory, then I remembered there won't be a jury, just the judge.

 

[hollyjokers]

Ohio has a very rich history as a leader in women's rights. But, not now! This is a disgrace! This school should be banned by the State from competing in sports for 5 years.
That's what would happen where I live. Disgusting!

You don't live in Minnesota do you? The Maple Grove hockey team situation sounds like it may be closer to what has been alleged in Steubenville, and it supposedly is a yearly ritual.

 

[believe09]

@Believe09: That seemed like a reasonable theory, then I remembered there won't be a jury, just the judge.

Then prosecutors must have substantial evidence of her incapacity, my friend. And substantial evidence of the mind set of those callous enough to let this event happen without challenging the perps.

I suspect the video will come up in the Civil suits that are bound to occur after the criminal trial.

 

[hollyjokers]

Did anyone else notice the MC testimony I mentioned? One of his last statements was he came back from JH's again with a female(FM). At this point, victim & TM are sleeping on couch & MR is in his bed. Nothing else is said as to whether the girl came inside or not. Just thought it was strange that he left them in his house.

 

[believe09]

Would someone bump the link to the transcript, pretty please?

 

[Lois Lane]

Would someone bump the link to the transcript, pretty please?

I don't know that it has been linked.

I found it via Google...

steubenville probable cause hearing transcript

Second result in my search.