GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #1

[STEADFAST]

This actually happens frequently. In many cases it happens even though a 911 call brought LE to the house. 911 hang up call, LE goes to the house and there is no answer. They figure it's a prank call and leave. There was a case here in Utah several years back where a baby died of starvation in it's crib after mom and dad died in a murder suicide. LE had been at the house knocking but never went in. Two more cases I can think of where it was murder suicide discovered by family breaking in when LE wouldn't enter. One of those was a 911 hang up call.

In the Entwhistle case, the mother had to insist that LE enter the home to check on her daughter. They did enter, looked around in all the rooms and reported that nothing was amiss, even though there were two dead bodies on the bed in the bedroom!
I bet LE gets tons of welfare check calls, and over time they just get jaded. I guess if you'd done, say, 1000 welfare checks over the years and no one ever turned out to be in trouble, you just wouldn't put much effort into it.

ETA By "you," I don't mean you, personally, SuziQ!

 

[Leila]

Your right there wasn't any mention of a husband or a boyfriend. That's one of the thing's I'm wondering about did she have one and when was the last time they heard from Stephanie if she did have one ?

I'm wondering too about Stephanie's younger child.......I think it was said, a boy about 8-years-old. If this is accurate, where is he? Is he okay and safe with a family member?

 

[lucimhome]

I'm wondering too about Stephanie's younger child.......I think it was said, a boy about 8-years-old. If this is accurate, where is he? Is he okay and safe with a family member?

He must be safe... Or we would have 5 missing. However, If she didn't pick him up from school or extended care after school. I would think red flags would of went off. She should of been the 1st person reported missing. Maybe she was? How long was he home aloan? Or @ what time did someone pick him up or check on him. He's way to young to be left aloan. Did Stephanie live next door? or Is she her best friend? Maybe both.

 

[SuziQ]

He must be safe... Or we would have 5 missing. However, If she didn't pick him up from school or extended care after school. I would think red flags would of went off. She should of been the 1st person reported missing. Maybe she was? How long was he home aloan? Or @ what time did someone pick him up or check on him. He's way to young to be left aloan. Did Stephanie live next door? or Is she her best friend? Maybe both.

Good questions. Having more info on Stephanie might tell us alot. She appears to have a great support system on Facebook, but none have talked to the press. That I know of anyways.

 

[Leila]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pray-for-The-Maynard-Kids/174173612594279?v=wall&filter=2

This says, as of 10 hrs ago, the sheriff's dept had a boat in Apple Valley Lake, searching.
There is a search scheduled for 7am Sat. morning. There is an offer of horses to search, if needed.

Post says that Kody and Sarah did get on school bus Wed. morning.
Also says that all texts stopped from Sarah Wed. afternoon.

I think we can assume that if the two children went to school on Wednesday, that whatever happened, happened sometime after the children arrived home from school on Wednesday.

Most schools let out for the day about 3:00pm and children arrive home within an hour after that, depending on the school bus route. We know that Tina was supposed to work the evening shift at Dairy Queen and didn't show up, which caused her manager to be concerned. I wish we knew what time she was supposed to start work.

That gives us a window. Sometime after the children arrived home from school on Wednesday and before Tina was to go to work, is when whatever happened, happened. Lets say the window is roughly between 4:00pm - 7:00pm on Wednesday.

 

[Mouse]

I'm pretty sure that the police entering your home thing is covered under the 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure. Government officials can't just go into your home whenever they want to--they can only enter forcibly under certain conditions, such as to prevent imminent danger (if a bomb is going to go off), to keep evidence from being destroyed, or if they have a reasonable belief that a crime has occurred (which means some kind of physical evidence that is visible from outside, or clearly visible from an open window). Any evidence (and any discoveries stemming from that evidence) gathered in an illegal search are going to be thrown out of court, and then the police would be getting criticism for that. It's a no-win for LE, since they're going to be criticized either way. Better for them to err on the side of caution--there have been a handful of cases where someone could have survived but didn't because the police did not force their way into a home; there are many, many cases where a criminal was freed on a technicality stemming from an illegal search. It's horrible that a baby starved to death after his parents' murder-suicide--but the person directly responsible for that is the murdering parent, not the police.

As much as I understand the frustration about police not entering a home, I also don't think most of us want to live in a country where police can force their way into our homes at any time. As horrible as crime is, statistically, far more people just decide to skip work, or go on a multi-day bender and drop out of sight, or just don't feel like going to work or answering the phone, than are lying dead or injured and undiscovered in their own home. I often don't answer the door when I'm home alone and not expecting anyone, and I would hate to think that the police could just enter my home and scare the **** out of me anyway.

It's also for everyone's protection, LE included. The man referenced above, who didn't answer the door because he was sleeping: what if he'd had a gun? When woken up by the sound of people breaking into his home, he might have reasonably thought that he was in danger and fired in self-defense before realizing that the "intruders" were police on a welfare check, not armed thugs (I'm often groggy when waking up, and without my glasses, I can't see if someone is wearing a uniform or just dark clothing). And, of course, if he'd pulled a gun to defend himself, the police would have shot back, and likely killed him. Should the guy have skipped work and panicked everyone? No--that's clearly irresponsible. But surely we wouldn't say that he should have his home invaded or possibly be killed because of it.

ETA: Of course, the icky thing about this is that it often falls to a family member or friend to enter the house (they're not liable in the same way since they are acting as civilians, not as agents of the government) and find evidence that something is wrong (at which point police can enter the scene). As horrible as it must be to see such things as a police officer, they are at least trained to deal with such things (seeing gory crime scenes), while civilians are not.

 

[fran]

I may have missed a few posts, but have you seen that it was her CO-WORKER that reported her missing on Wednesday, not the b/f as previously stated?

It's in the comments section of this article..........a note from the news-staff, it appears. http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/nov/12/35/4-people-missing-college-lockdown-ar-288593/

Now, as she hadn't shown up for work on Wednesday evening, coworker reports to LE who checks and then Thursday, co-worker checks home and calls LE again,....now it makes more sense.


Wednesday at 4:30a.m.? b/f gets text about feeding dog
Two children go to school and return home.
Wednesday 4:00p.m., doesn't show up for work, co-worker contacts LE, LE checks, no answer, truck in driveway,
Wednesday 11:00p.m., same LE goes to home, lights on, no answer.

Thursday, children not in school.
Thursday, Tina's manager goes to home and then calls LE, no truck. B/f comes home and let's LE enter.

One article said the b/f worked 80 miles from home, so it does make sense that he'd perhaps spend the night with friends if he was going golfing there.

Hmmmm..........the dog is missing too. Did the dog bark when LE came to the door on Wednesday?

JMHO
fran

PS....this abc video has the timeline. http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ohio-family-prompts-college-lockdown-search/story?id=12139637

 

[Soul125]

I didn't see it mentioned in any news media, but I gather neither of the two women had a cell phone with them when they left the home. Or else LE would at least be able to know what general direction they went from signals. Nobody leaves home without a cell phone these days, so wouldn't it be almost a given that they were taken against their will. Someone else noted that it seems strange that the dog was not at home. I wonder why someone would take the dog if they took these 4 people. I mean why take a dog?

 

[Leila]

How do you think investigators can tell that the blood is from an injury? No blood spatter so that would indicate no striking with a knife or shooting with a gun. What else in the house would suggest an injury.....bandages or bloody towels?

I would think there would have to be something that suggested to the investigators that the blood may have come from an injury rather than violence. Your suggestion of bloody towels, bandages, or things that would indicate that someone tried to treat an injury, makes sense.

The dog being missing too is a puzzle. I keep thinking that somehow the dog might figure into this. Did the dog bite someone? Did the dog get injured? Is it human blood or dog blood?

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pray-for-The-Maynard-Kids/174173612594279?v=wall&filter=2

It is posted on FB that two bi planes are in the air over Apple Valley area and news crews are there.
Two state watercraft on the lake now.

There is a prayer service tonight at 7pm.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I've been mulling this case over - could it be that one of the women missing snapped and took the rest of them with her? With Stephanie's car in the other garage, and then the other truck turning up in Gambier....

Is it possible this isn't an outside thing, but a hostage situation or some sort of kidnapping by Stephanie or Tina?

 

[STEADFAST]

I would think there would have to be something that suggested to the investigators that the blood may have come from an injury rather than violence. Your suggestion of bloody towels, bandages, or things that would indicate that someone tried to treat an injury, makes sense.

The dog being missing too is a puzzle. I keep thinking that somehow the dog might figure into this. Did the dog bite someone? Did the dog get injured? Is it human blood or dog blood?

I think the dog is missing because someone wanted people to think that Tina left on her own. Family and friends would know she wouldn't have left her dog behind. Random home invaders wouldn't bother with taking the dog, even if they killed it.

 

[STEADFAST]

I've been mulling this case over - could it be that one of the women missing snapped and took the rest of them with her? With Stephanie's car in the other garage, and then the other truck turning up in Gambier....

Is it possible this isn't an outside thing, but a hostage situation or some sort of kidnapping by Stephanie or Tina?

The only thing is, you've got to wonder, unless one of them had an accomplice, what vehicle they could be in.

 

[dreamweaver]

On FB page, under discussion, a poster reports she thinks she saw the mom and the son at a McDonald's on the Illinois/Wisconsin border last night.

Of course, no way to know if this is a true sighting or not.

 

[shefner]

I think with 4 people missing...and these kids are not small kids, they are middle-schoolers....we could be looking at more than one perp. They also took the dog, which is very strange. Any other cases where a person and their pet were kidnapped?

 

[hndinglove]

Two questions that came to my mind:

1. I don't know much about the kind of dog Tanner is -- is it loud? Did it bark a lot? Does it usually bark a lot? Did the police hear the dog when they were there on Wednesday? I wonder when the last time anybody heard the dog was? I ask because I have neighbors with very loud dogs, and they are definitely noticeable. If anyone goes near 'em, they start yapping (lol).

2. Does Stephanie's house have a garage? Was parking her car in Tina's garage out of the ordinary, or was that something she normally did? If it's the latter, it being parked there might not be significant. (Unless evidence was found in the car, of course.)

 

[Soul125]

I've been mulling this case over - could it be that one of the women missing snapped and took the rest of them with her? With Stephanie's car in the other garage, and then the other truck turning up in Gambier....

Is it possible this isn't an outside thing, but a hostage situation or some sort of kidnapping by Stephanie or Tina?

It's possible, but that would mean Hermann took her kids, which doesn't make much sense when she already had them. And if the other woman were the kidnapper, it would mean the other woman left her kids behind. But at this point I guess anything is possible until we learn more details.

 

[fhc]

I didn't see it mentioned in any news media, but I gather neither of the two women had a cell phone with them when they left the home. Or else LE would at least be able to know what general direction they went from signals. Nobody leaves home without a cell phone these days, so wouldn't it be almost a given that they were taken against their will. Someone else noted that it seems strange that the dog was not at home. I wonder why someone would take the dog if they took these 4 people. I mean why take a dog?

The latest news articles have stated that there has been no activity on their cellphones or credit cards.

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/13/barber-updates-community-on-search.php
" I don’t want to speak for the BCI&I,” he said. “But they have made it a high priority case. We are hoping that the processing of all the evidence from the residence, and from the two trucks, will provide us with more information as to their disappearance.”

MORE...

We appreciate the efforts of the news media to get out the information about these four people being missing and publishing their pictures,” he said. “We have received some information. Any information we are receiving is being followed up by the detectives at this time. Evidence is continuing to be collected at the site. [Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation] is not here yet this morning but they will be back later on today.”

 

[SuziQ]

I think with 4 people missing...and these kids are not small kids, they are middle-schoolers....we could be looking at more than one perp. They also took the dog, which is very strange. Any other cases where a person and their pet were kidnapped?

Alot of people do go missing with their dogs. In one case the husband who killed his wife was spotted dumping her dog off at a park. The wife supposedly disappeared while walking the dog you see. Another case a teenager was reported as a runaway along with her little dog. Years later her and the dog was found buried in her very own backyard. Dad and stepmom were arrested for murder. And more people than I can count disappear with their pets while jogging, running or hiking. Gary Hilton threatened the life of a victims dog to gain control over that victim and eventually kill her. He did spare the dog and dropped it off in a parking lot. The victim's parents have the dog now.

Which makes me wonder...does LE have a BOLO out for the dog at local shelters etc?