OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #9

[Oriah]

curiositycat, with your fresh set of eyes- I'd like to know what you think of the Jamison's dog being in their truck for 10 days.

(Yes, ya'll! I'm gonna beat this dead horse again!)

 

[curiosityscat]

curiositycat, with your fresh set of eyes- I'd like to know what you think of the Jamison's dog being in their truck for 10 days.

(Yes, ya'll! I'm gonna beat this dead horse again!)

Oriah - I'm honored whenever any of ya'll ask my 2 cents, but it's only my opinion, so I guess just take it all with a grain of salt.

First let me say, I love animals, I have my own, just in case any of the following sounds callous..

In this instance, with regards to the family dog, 3 things (2 being opinion/theory -- 1 Came from the TV Show):

1) I go back to my theory that I don't think a 3rd Party searched or messed with the truck at all. Hence, why that person never realized there was money or found it. I don't know what breed of dog the Jamison's owned, but I don't think the 3rd Party felt like it was worth messing with at all. It was insignificant, it can't speak, it can't tell, so who cares, why bother?? Ok, you open the truck, what if it bites? If it doesn't bite, then it's just another complication, if it runs off you have to catch it, or kill it, or do you just let it run free? Again, why bother at all, just leave it, and the problem solves itself. That's also assuming the dog was even making noise (doubt it). I saw a pic with Madyson and a little black and white dog, if that's the one, it's small enough to have been laying down on the seat resting or even standing and if not directly next to the truck, it probably wasn't even seen/visible. Especially if the Jamison's all got out individually say Bobby 1st, then Sherilyn and/or Madyson, separately or together, that doesn't mean the dog was so disturbed as to be barking and cause a ruckus and draw attention to itself and therefore make it a target.

2) As to the length of time the dog stayed unnoticed/unattended/ignored, when you see a dog at a shopping mall that has been left in a car (yes, I know, it burns my buns too, there is no valid reason/there is no excuse --I live where it's real hot, so If no running a/c and windows not cracked, I'm reporting it), but people (particularly rural towns) tend to assume that the vehicle's owner will return to it soon (they "mind their own business" for good or bad, because come on let's face it, who would just walk off and leave a beloved pet in a car?? Now, when you're in the woods, and say you see a truck with a dog in it, people tend to assume both belong to a hunter or day hiker and that they will be back soon. Again, I still say the dog probably wasn't very visible or making much noise...

3) The TV program stated that either the people who saw the truck parked there thought (or that the police believed that the people who saw it must have thought) that the truck belonged to a pipeline worker of some kind, because where the truck was found, it was a couple feet from a big pipe valve thing that stuck out of the ground (like a 4-5' pipe --not a small you can't see it pipe, it's big and visible from a good couple yards away). For whatever reason, they thought someone was working on or repairing the pipe and that the owner had stepped away, went into the woods to relieve themselves, taken a ride to another location w/someone, etc. and would eventually return and/or that the person was just returning to the same site daily (not realizing that the truck had not actually moved for several days).

Well, that's my take on the dog issue (and the TV show's presentation on the why the truck remained un-noticed/reported for so long). *shrugs* *smiles*

 

[Darcyline]

The dog issue has always seemed strange to me because I would think the dog would be dead spending at least 10 days in a truck like that. A small dog like that can starve/dehydrate/overheat to death very, very, very quickly. Even in cooler weather a dog can overheat sitting in a vehicle in a few hours or less.
However, did someone mention that it may have had food and water available? And I guess if temperatures were really, really cool at the time it is possible.

 

[Soulmagent]

I dont have any better clue of what happened to the jamisons then I did when I first heard of this case.

I have have a very good picture of why sheriff B said what he did about having to many leads to sort out.

What scares me is whoever did this to the Jamisons will be able to do this again. I know they didnt wonder off and get lost and I know they didnt run off (together anyway) and leave 32 thousand in their truck with their little girls dog.

So either the one who put the money under the truck seat was murdered ,or they all were. IMO(unless Madyson was taken ). Those HRD hits make me sure someone was murdered there and was left there long enough to leave a scent for the HRD dog to pick up.

I have never heard if Sherlyn was ever a victim of a violent crime before she went missing or not.Anyone know?

 

[curiosityscat]

The dog issue has always seemed strange to me because I would think the dog would be dead spending at least 10 days in a truck like that. A small dog like that can starve/dehydrate/overheat to death very, very, very quickly. Even in cooler weather a dog can overheat sitting in a vehicle in a few hours or less.
However, did someone mention that it may have had food and water available? And I guess if temperatures were really, really cool at the time it is possible.

I understand the puzzlement, but animals, just like humans, can survive some very extraordinary circumstances. You need only watch Animal Cops or an animal rescue show to see examples of animals that survive incredible situations, long-term starvation (by owners--Grrr!), medical conditions that most animals would succumb to from flea infestation, shooting (again, GRrr!), severe burns from saving it's kittens (making several trips into a burning bldg. Fully shielded firefighters won't enter), fighting against a wild animal 2x's it's size, etc., and yet, there is always that one animal that somehow seems to survive. *shrugs* 10 days is extraordinary, but not impossible (obviously). Also, no one ever said that the truck a/c was left running or not, if the vehicle was still running (a/c until battery/gas shut off) or the windows were cracked, the dog of course would have had additional time on the survival clock.

It seems like a small victory, but I'm glad the dog, at least, survived whatever happened.

----
Praying for the Jamison Family, where ever they may be, they will always be in my prayers.

 

[Oriah]

I understand the puzzlement, but animals, just like humans, can survive some very extraordinary circumstances. You need only watch Animal Cops or an animal rescue show to see examples of animals that survive incredible situations, long-term starvation (by owners--Grrr!), medical conditions that most animals would succumb to from flea infestation, shooting (again, GRrr!), severe burns from saving it's kittens (making several trips into a burning bldg. Fully shielded firefighters won't enter), fighting against a wild animal 2x's it's size, etc., and yet, there is always that one animal that somehow seems to survive. *shrugs* 10 days is extraordinary, but not impossible (obviously). Also, no one ever said that the truck a/c was left running or not, if the vehicle was still running (a/c until battery/gas shut off) or the windows were cracked, the dog of course would have had additional time on the survival clock.

It seems like a small victory, but I'm glad the dog, at least, survived whatever happened.

----
Praying for the Jamison Family, where ever they may be, they will always be in my prayers.

I know what you're saying curiosityscat, and completely agree that there are miraculous survival stories out there.

However, I am mostly perplexed by the evidence photos in relation to the dog being in the truck for 10 days. There does not appear to me to be any evidence such as that would be left behind if a dog were confined to a vehicle for that period of time.

Jmho, of course. But if someone can show me some physical evidence that points toward the dog actually BEING in the truck at all when the truck was found, I would most appreciate it.

Because I can't understand how there is none.

 

[curiosityscat]

I know what you're saying curiosityscat, and completely agree that there are miraculous survival stories out there.

However, I am mostly perplexed by the evidence photos in relation to the dog being in the truck for 10 days. There does not appear to me to be any evidence such as that would be left behind if a dog were confined to a vehicle for that period of time.

Jmho, of course. But if someone can show me some physical evidence that points toward the dog actually BEING in the truck at all when the truck was found, I would most appreciate it.

Because I can't understand how there is none.

*LMHO*...ahhhh, ok! You're talking about "car bombs" (pet poo), chewing, etc?...ok, in that case, I misunderstood. I can certainly understand it being perplexing (and illogical) if there was absolutely no evidence the dog was actually "in the truck" for an extended period of time.

But, I guess my question is: Q: Would the investigator/police, whom ever in charge, even mention that detail? and Are there maybe released documentation or pictures of the actual "scene" that I've missed?
I haven't seen any photos (except the ones "on-site" taken via cell phone supposedly by the Jamisons during their minor/short excursion further up the road than where the truck was found, showing a few shots and then the pic of Madyson, the film of the Jamisons packing the car, the container w/writing, the house, a truck --I'm doubtful was the "real" truck vs. same make model staged). The TV show, I am assuming, was a re-enactment of the site and truck, and not "the real deal", because the truck was far "too neat" (I did consider the dog and no poo, too), but I also seriously doubt a TV show or Investigator is going to say, "Hey the dog c**ped everywhere and the truck stunk to high heaven." *shrugs*..it's sort of logical that if the dog was in the truck for 10 days (which they did point out), that you wouldn't want to be the one to have to open the door and get a 1st whiff. Personally, just me, and I know opinions vary, but I think it's just a detail that goes without saying, so far as, it's implied. *shurgs*

----
Where are the Jamison Family? Who knows what happened, and when will the truth come out? Praying for the Jamison Family, always.

 

[curiosityscat]

In response to Soulmagent's last post (not quoted only because my post is so long)

Sorry, but "too many leads to sort", IMHO is a serious investigative cop-out!! That's why someone with passion (bordering on an obsession) to find the "truth" whatever it may be, is needed or there never will bee answers (to this or any criminal case).

I agree, that no one bails on $32k, doing so would just be stupid. If you intend to "start fresh" , because you need cash to do it. You sure don't just walk off and leave it. It's the large amount that makes me believe a "real estate deal or real estate lie/set up", because that's a good amount of money, and not an illogical amount for a couple of acres of undeveloped land. (Add ro that, that they were suppose to be in the market, per multiple friends/family).

I don't know about what happened to Madyson, though I pray she (and they) are all healthy and safe. But, I admit, I tend to agree with you, because I don't think someone would leave a witness (though I can't imagine injuring a child, there are many a killer w/o that moral value). Especially since Madyson was/is old enough to talk and express what she saw, to me, that's not a plus indicator on the survival side of the equation.

** Side Note: I've always wondered why in the case of missing kids, don't people canvas schools with photos? I realize there are thousands, but that's what grassroot efforts are for, even if ppl hit up schools within districts that fall under certain socio-economic factors for the potential missing (a low income person is, not suddenly going to have the cash to place a child in an elite expensive private school --so leave those out depending on situation). If a child was successfully registered anywhere, mid-school year is the time to do a "hey have you seen", when teachers are familiar more with their students for that year. As time passes, not everyone keeps up with missing cases (least of all teachers w/heavy work loads), but if a teacher received a photo flyer (easier in today's tech age), then they are likely to know right away if a kid looks familiar, pass along to other teachers in their school (post in the Teacher's lounge). If a child gets home schooled, there are still networks of home schoolers with whom to get the word out (not to mention in-home school reviewers for certified home schooling). *shurgs* Just a thought. (But I don't think Madyson will be located with this method, for obvious reasons).

About Sherilyn, see my previous post about the whacko ex-tenant. As I think the RE angle and that ex-tenant are the 2 biggest most logical leads and possible motives in my book. The ex-tenant (alibi or not) I'm certain, has "friends" of the same disturbing racial philosophy, and this Countries' white supremacist movement is not known for their fluffy bunny peaceful nature, but their fairly violent actions including gangs. Plus that guy served time in prison (where joining a violent gang is done for personal safety and is quite common, and I doubt he personally forgot or forgave his being made to leave the Jamison property at gun point without any of his belongings. Worse still, by a woman, and one that he felt was his racial inferior. *shrugs* IMHO. I'd also like to know if anyone knows of other existing/real "threats" to the family (other than a general local dislike) prior to their disappearance.

The scariest thing to me, is that whom ever did something to the Jamison Family (as I believe they were murdered --though I hate to verbalize that thought), is still out there and not only does that 3rd party believe they have gotten away with it, in essence so far they have gotten away with it. Killing without consequence puts a thought of power in someone's mind that they can do it "at will", again with no consequences. To me that's a terrifying thought, because it probably removes the mental hesitation that restrains violence towards others. To take 2-3 human lives, is a big violent line, and not a line someone can step back across. SK's time and again prove it can become addictive to take a life, this monster needs to be caught!

Sorry Ya'll, I know I need to learn to say more in fewer words. *shrugs* I feel like I've monopolized this sub-forum too much (but as I'm home and sick it's easy 4 me to comment, for the time being). But, I hope others will also speak up, as several have in the past. --Please?! *smiles* Keeping the ideas, and feedback going is important, you never know what might help crack the case, and maybe someone will pay attention one day to our ideas -- one can only hope!!

Also, I mentioned this before, QUESTION: Anyone else think a petition would help spur the local Investigating motivation? I'm sure it's a small force, so I can understand lack of manpower, but if not a petition, maybe someone knows an advocate group that investigates cases independently? (*chuckles*..I mean on site, in-person, or w/experience in law enforcement outside of Websleuths, that might have more resources or the police would be willing to work with? Just asking and I mean no offense to anyone or my fellow Sleuths)
----
Praying for the Jamison Family, where ever they may be, and may the truth come out!

 

[nanny2five]

it was october so the heat wouldn't have been a huge issue for Maisie, but lack of food or water for more than a week would certainly be an issue for any dog especially a small one. that said, it is possible that Maisie could survive for the week even with no food or water, but the truck would have been torn up imo with dog waste inside.

 

[wfgodot]

"The dog" = Maisie. An adorable little scamp.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped:
<I mean on site, in-person, or w/experience in law enforcement outside of Websleuths, that might have more resources or the police would be willing to work with? Just asking and I mean no offense to anyone or my fellow Sleuthers>

There are actually rather a lot of folks associated with LE who read WS's, lol. So I think the answer to that is 'yes.'

Now back to the dog! She certainly is an adorable little scamp, that allegedly ate hot dogs and drank water from a cooler in the front passenger-side footwell. And then ate her own feces to sustain herself.

The window of the truck was allegedly broken by... someone... after 10 days... to extract the dog from the vehice. However, evidence photos taken by the SO at the time do not support that theory, imvho.

Again- imvho- the dog was either never in the truck that day. Or it was tended to, while confined for 10 days. Or she was placed in the truck much more close to the 'discovery' date. Or there are a whole lot of people lying.

Of course, moo!

 

[nanny2five]

curiosityscat, you keep posting and make your posts as long as you need to in order to get your thoughts out. as you said, "you never know what might help crack the case." and as many eyes and brains as possible imo is the key to this one.
as for a petition to spur the county LE into more action, that is a good idea and might work except finding someone to sign it could be challenging, jmo.
i don't have any good opinion about what happened to the Jamisons, but i have a very loose theory that it was not anybody on the mountain who did whatever was done to them. the reason i think this is because imo if it was someone on the mountain and a crime of opportunity like robbery or even if they saw madyson and (God forbid) wanted her, the truck would have never been found. nobody on the mountain would leave the truck there, it would only bring LE and unwanted people and attention. i also don't think it was family. are there any new houses of worship in checotah that have been built in the past 2 years?

 

[JeannieC]

curiositycat, with your fresh set of eyes- I'd like to know what you think of the Jamison's dog being in their truck for 10 days.

(Yes, ya'll! I'm gonna beat this dead horse again!)

Thanks for :deadhorse:. I wonder about that too. Without pictures of the inside of the truck and a vet saying the dog was dehydrated, starving, and showed signs of neglect its hard to believe it was actually there for 10 days. I guess the reasoning that the dog "ate my homework" (or in this case his own) is a rational explanation the dog would still shows signs of poor health. imo

 

[Oriah]

Thanks for :deadhorse:. I wonder about that too. Without pictures of the inside of the truck and a vet saying the dog was dehydrated, starving, and showed signs of neglect its hard to believe it was actually there for 10 days. I guess the reasoning that the dog "ate my homework" (or in this case his own) is a rational explanation the dog would still shows signs of poor health. imo

Hi JeannieC-we actually DO have pictures of the inside of the truck...and that's where my doubt comes into play.

There are no pictures of the dog taken when the vehicle was found- and none of the pictures taken appear to me as though a dog locked in a vehicle for 10 days would appear. (And I know me some dogs! )

 

[Soulmagent]

I guess I would have expected the dog to under go some sort of check up and see a vet or something. I dont think the dog should have been released to the neighbors for sure.

It blows my mind how careless that was on LE part. Dog hair evidence ,and or transferable DNA evidence has a good defence in court if the neighbor was a suspect who was charged.

Never take a dog from a crime scene ,if an OK LE agent offers you one!!

 

[redfish]

Whew!!! I finally caught up. I have so much to comment on that I just don't know where to start! But before I do, I have to commend each and every one of the "faithful"! You guys have done such a great job. I would not be surprised if there are some pretty worried perps out there watching your progress and biting their nails. I will be leaving a note in my personal papers to contact you all if I ever disappear!

*****Oriah, the dog was not in that truck for 12 days, no way!

 

[JeannieC]

Whew!!! I finally caught up. I have so much to comment on that I just don't know where to start! But before I do, I have to commend each and every one of the "faithful"! You guys have done such a great job. I would not be surprised if there are some pretty worried perps out there watching your progress and biting their nails. I will be leaving a note in my personal papers to contact you all if I ever disappear!

*****Oriah, the dog was not in that truck for 12 days, no way!

Whoops..........10 days...and probably not even that many. imo

 

[redfish]

Whoops..........10 days...and probably not even that many. imo

LOL or 10 Jeannie!

 

[Oriah]

I guess I would have expected the dog to under go some sort of check up and see a vet or something. I dont think the dog should have been released to the neighbors for sure.

It blows my mind how careless that was on LE part. Dog hair evidence ,and or transferable DNA evidence has a good defence in court if the neighbor was a suspect who was charged.

Never take a dog from a crime scene ,if an OK LE agent offers you one!![/quote]

LOL, Soul- how about cash?? Can I take that?

 

[nanny2five]

i can't believe you even have to ask, Oriah! TAKE THE CASH!!!!