OK OK - Lauria Bible, 16, & Ashley Freeman, 16, Welch, 30 December 1999 *ARREST*

[M86]

It does scream epic fail, and I don't say that often considering I am very supportive (and usually defensive) of LE. But really...how do you leave an unstable crime or accident scene to be 'processed' by private individuals- and family none the less.

As for hiring a PI- I believe they have in the past.

Good to know about the PI... Do you know anything more of the nurse, DeAnna Dorsey, that was murdered? Something just doesn't add up with that incident.

 

[M86]

12 years ago, tonight, Lauria and Ashley went missing from that trailer, and was set ablaze... And no advancements on this case. So sad....

I'm sure this is a tough time, especially for the Bible family.

 

[M86]

Giving a friendly bump...

 

[jerm]

I grew up in Vinita, and everyone knows one another here. I also worked for the Tulsa Office of the Chief Medical Examiner from '06 to '08. I worked closely with Dr. R. Distefano and had some discussions about the case. Any info on the area or the parties involved or even ME reports I may be able to help with. Any questions are welcome.

 

[Oriah]

I grew up in Vinita, and everyone knows one another here. I also worked for the Tulsa Office of the Chief Medical Examiner from '06 to '08. I worked closely with Dr. R. Distefano and had some discussions about the case. Any info on the area or the parties involved or even ME reports I may be able to help with. Any questions are welcome.

Welcome, jerm! So glad to have you here!

Any chance you have any info re: the terminal ballistics involved in Shane's case?
Also- what are your thoughts about the Pizza Hut vs Big Bills controversy?

Thank you so much for your thoughts, and welcome again!

 

[jerm]

Welcome, jerm! So glad to have you here!

Any chance you have any info re: the terminal ballistics involved in Shane's case?
Also- what are your thoughts about the Pizza Hut vs Big Bills controversy?

Thank you so much for your thoughts, and welcome again!

Thanks. I remember the night this happened. I had worked for Lorene when I was around 16 and knew her daughter to be an exceptional young lady. My immediate thoughts were "No way, not her. Not here." It immediately didn't make sense.

As to the reports on Shane, I never looked for any information on it. I was a highschool senior at that time and it rarely crossed my mind. I'd see the Justice for Shane signage throughout the rural areas where I hunted and fished and barely knew anything of the case. I say that because on slow days I'd read through old case files from cases I'd read of or had interest in. That one never came to mind.

I did however read the initial ME reports on the bodies of DF & KF. Only the initial reports were present. I found that puzzling so I engaged Dr. D in conversation on the topic. Having been around the ME's office for a while at that time and being familiar with working the medical evidence collection on homicide cases, these two reports immediately seemed odd. Two pages each. Two pages?!? Even the open/shut cases where the perp was on scene and arrested had more info in them. Sketchy at best.

There are so many things in this case that are out of place that is boggles me. As I said, I have a few areas of familiarity in this case and would like to help. I'm sorry, but I don't have a thing on Shane other than reputation and the gossipings of the small towns here.

 

[jerm]

As for their dinner destination? I'm not sure it would play a major part in this, other than it seems strange for the two confliction reports. The space Big Bill's occupied has been 4-5 different restaurants in the time since. The only vidoe surveillance in town seemed to be at the banks and indoor at the Walmart. I can't think of any unsavory characters that worked at either place back then, but sometimes around here quiet is kept.

 

[Oriah]

As for their dinner destination? I'm not sure it would play a major part in this, other than it seems strange for the two confliction reports. The space Big Bill's occupied has been 4-5 different restaurants in the time since. The only vidoe surveillance in town seemed to be at the banks and indoor at the Walmart. I can't think of any unsavory characters that worked at either place back then, but sometimes around here quiet is kept.

Thank you so much for your input, jerm.

Conflicting reports always catch my attention- especially when there seems to be no reason/purpose for them, you know?

Do you know if there is still talk locally about what may have happened to the girls?

 

[jerm]

There is actually. Not a lot, but everyone still wonders what happened. It's a close knit community. Things like this are few and far between. I think interest is still there. One thing that sticks in my head is the initial coroner's report for DF & KF. The coroner, Dr. Warren, has since passed away after succumbing to a lengthy illness. It's rare in cases like these that every single lead is deceased! Dr. Distefano was the deputy cheif ME for 20+ years and even he hadn't seen too many cases that rivaled the oddities found in this one. Question: What areas were you allowed to search? How accomodating were the landowners? Anything catch your interest?
Farmers/ranchers around these parts usually burn off their pastures in the spring. This would make locating a burial site almost impossible & within 2-3 months after the disappearance. Just a thought.

 

[jerm]

Also, knowing all the parties involved, I can't help but wonder why the Big Bill's scenario even exists. &&& with the address plainly posted! To drum up business? It doesn't make sense. Where did that information come from? No witnesses are mentioned. Lorene is a diligent parent and very responsible. If she's says Lauria was at Pizza Hut, I'd likely believe that above all. I grew up here, and the presence of local and county law enforcement (at least at the time in question) would make anyone worry. Look through the public records system, some of these gentlemen ended up in prison. On deputy was a known drug user and eventually resigned due to not having even a GED. WOW!! The good ol' boy connection is alive and well in the south, but the criminal element that made itself home within our LE at the time should be troublesome to all!

 

[Oriah]

Also, knowing all the parties involved, I can't help but wonder why the Big Bill's scenario even exists. &&& with the address plainly posted! To drum up business? It doesn't make sense. Where did that information come from? No witnesses are mentioned. Lorene is a diligent parent and very responsible. If she's says Lauria was at Pizza Hut, I'd likely believe that above all. I grew up here, and the presence of local and county law enforcement (at least at the time in question) would make anyone worry. Look through the public records system, some of these gentlemen ended up in prison. On deputy was a known drug user and eventually resigned due to not having even a GED. WOW!! The good ol' boy connection is alive and well in the south, but the criminal element that made itself home within our LE at the time should be troublesome to all!

I have always wondered why the inconsistancy between dining locations existed- or should I say, why and by whom it was created? Seems like simple LE work- you either have a witness who is willing to give a statement, or you don't. Lorene is that willing witness. Who is the other??

Controlled crop burns can sometimes help in searches for very aged remains, especially if they are buried or underground for some other reason- but as you said, in the early months following the murders and the girls disappearance it would probably have been a search obstacle. Locals usually burn in March/April, depending on frost, rain, snow and the winter season in general- correct?

 

[jerm]

Yes March usually because April & May bring the spring thunderstorms to town and there'd be too much wind and possible rain. I was just thinking that the charred earth may mask a fresh dig site. Then, the rapid regrowth of the ground cover and scrub brush may again cover the tracks.
I'm really not sure why the conflicting reports exist on the dining location. It's puzzling. But with local LE proving that they're not equipped to deal with a case of this nature, we may never know why the report states what it states.
So many oddities and dead ends... It's very frustrating. People around here just want to know. They want closure and peace of mind. Will they get it?? I sure hope so.

 

[M86]

Yes March usually because April & May bring the spring thunderstorms to town and there'd be too much wind and possible rain. I was just thinking that the charred earth may mask a fresh dig site. Then, the rapid regrowth of the ground cover and scrub brush may again cover the tracks.
I'm really not sure why the conflicting reports exist on the dining location. It's puzzling. But with local LE proving that they're not equipped to deal with a case of this nature, we may never know why the report states what it states.
So many oddities and dead ends... It's very frustrating. People around here just want to know. They want closure and peace of mind. Will they get it?? I sure hope so.

Hey jerm, thank you for the post! Are you in NE Oklahoma? Do you think that possibly LE involvement is possible? If not, local LE is definitely not equipped to handle something like this. However, OSBI was brought in, and nothing. But again, OSBI has about the worst track record. I hate to say it, but I call it as I see it...

 

[wfgodot]

Hey jerm, thank you for the post! Are you in NE Oklahoma? Do you think that possibly LE involvement is possible? If not, local LE is definitely not equipped to handle something like this. However, OSBI was brought in, and nothing. But again, OSBI has about the worst track record. I hate to say it, but I call it as I see it...

I'm in NE OK, was here when the tragedy occurred, and definitely think it's possible that LE was at some level involved. Anytime an investigation is botched this badly from the beginning, it's fair to suppose, if not conclude, that there was a reason for the mishandling of the case - mere ineptness doesn't always account for everything. As for OSBI, which became the lead investigative force after being called in by Craig County officials after learning the Freemans were involved, they managed not only to be unable to find Danny Freeman's body, but also to leave the scene unguarded; the Bibles showed up, and five minutes later found Freeman's body. OSBI also waited ten years to reveal the information that, allegedly, a "dark four-door sedan" and/or a "dark heavy-duty truck" may have been involved - a "clue" whose release after all those years rendered it laughable in terms of helping further the investigation.

 

[M86]

I've been obsessed with this case, and something screams LE involvement to me. And I've seen/read/heard about OSBI... Good grief is all I can say.

I live in Rogers, AR... and I see LE speeding past me, way over the speed limit, all the time. If they feel they are over the law, then who knows? Makes me sick...

The release of the dark sedan description is laughable. Truly, unreal... Something needs to come out, and it needs to be soon.

 

[Oriah]

I'm in NE OK, was here when the tragedy occurred, and definitely think it's possible that LE was at some level involved. Anytime an investigation is botched this badly from the beginning, it's fair to suppose, if not conclude, that there was a reason for the mishandling of the case - mere ineptness doesn't always account for everything. As for OSBI, which became the lead investigative force after being called in by Craig County officials after learning the Freemans were involved, they managed not only to be unable to find Danny Freeman's body, but also to leave the scene unguarded; the Bibles showed up, and five minutes later found Freeman's body. OSBI also waited ten years to reveal the information that, allegedly, a "dark four-door sedan" and/or a "dark heavy-duty truck" may have been involved - a "clue" whose release after all those years rendered it laughable in terms of helping further the investigation.

Not just laughable because of the time frame, but the discrepancy. So what are we looking for- a 4 door car? Or a heavy duty truck? Might as well say a male or a female, white or possibly black.

And the 'timeline' kills me. It seems rather... impossible without help.

 

[SarahR]

I Can't help but think the handbag left at the door was dropped out of shock. Maybe the girls weren't at the trailer at the time of the shooting, maybe the girls came back from a walk/drive and opened the door to that carnage or evenly possibly coming back unnoticed to seeing maybe LE'S/druggy's car at the trailer they hear shots and then the police/druggy leaving. then running to trailer opening the door and dropping bag out of shock. There would already be the element of mistrust (if it was LE) from the girl due to her brother being shot, then shes see's this, she gets her savings jar from the freezer, gets the arrowheads and runs knowing she's likely to be next. And knowing they can't go to LE. The other girl scared of the same fate becoming her parents if she tells them, also runs to keep them safe. at first they may have got into the car to leave, hence keys in the igniton. Then realised they could found easier driving the car, they leave the keys in ignition and leave on foot. Whoever commited the crime comes back later to set the fire. All MOO but i just got a feeling they left that trailer together that night with the intention of not being seen again. Those arrowheads is a major puzzle piece, i wonder if any sales of arrowheads can be traced for the months that followed. Or if any friends or family have a bit more in depth knowledge on the type color etc.

 

[jerm]

I haved lived in Vinita since '93. There are tons of things people could say about the LE at that time. City AND county. Mishandling of cases by this group would not be surprising to anyone around here given the types of characters employed by our LE at the time. The sad thing is these individuals and interested parties keep dying. Soon there won't be anyone left here with a fresh link or inside information to this crime. For this to have gone unsolved so long, you'd have to think either LE was involved OR it was a random act. "Druggies" do not make efficient calculated decisions. How could they leave no evidence? How could they never speak of it again? If it is LE, have they killed off everyone with inside info? Someone knows something...

 

[M86]

I haved lived in Vinita since '93. There are tons of things people could say about the LE at that time. City AND county. Mishandling of cases by this group would not be surprising to anyone around here given the types of characters employed by our LE at the time. The sad thing is these individuals and interested parties keep dying. Soon there won't be anyone left here with a fresh link or inside information to this crime. For this to have gone unsolved so long, you'd have to think either LE was involved OR it was a random act. "Druggies" do not make efficient calculated decisions. How could they leave no evidence? How could they never speak of it again? If it is LE, have they killed off everyone with inside info? Someone knows something...

I heard that some LE in the Vinita area took polygraphs and passed, but again, who knows. I take that with a grain of salt.

I know how small towns are, and I wouldn't be surprised with LE involvement. Something just doesn't add up.

My opinion (I've said this before probably) is it's either LE involvement and/or drug involvement.

The thing that I can't shake is that murder of the nurse the hospital in Vinita. That happened shortly after she returned from a taping of a show that profiled the case (the show never aired). The nurse helped the Freeman's on the night the son was shot by LE. And shortly after that taping, she's murdered? Again, something doesn't add up.

Thanks, jerm, for your insight.

 

[Oriah]

I haved lived in Vinita since '93. There are tons of things people could say about the LE at that time. City AND county. Mishandling of cases by this group would not be surprising to anyone around here given the types of characters employed by our LE at the time. The sad thing is these individuals and interested parties keep dying. Soon there won't be anyone left here with a fresh link or inside information to this crime. For this to have gone unsolved so long, you'd have to think either LE was involved OR it was a random act. "Druggies" do not make efficient calculated decisions. How could they leave no evidence? How could they never speak of it again? If it is LE, have they killed off everyone with inside info? Someone knows something...

But they did leave all kinds of evidence. That's the primary point that keeps bringing me back to LE.

I mean, they left a body at an unsecured crime scene.

That's not just a little oopsie. Talk about setting up the possibility of inadmissable or contested evidence, kwim?