OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #2 *Arrests*

[MassGuy]

Are you thinking one or both of the women?

Yes. I think they knew they’d be dealing with two women, and planned on abducting and murdering them both.

The scenario that makes the most sense to me is that they didn’t want to leave a bloody mess there, and just wanted the women to vanish. Something must have altered those plans.

 

[MassGuy]

IMHO this sounds like a “murder for hire”

They must have had a plan as to where to dispose of the bodies before they shot the victims- talk upthread about cattle incineration makes sense

Somewhere - and probably not too far away- there is a trailer or pickup truck with blood DNA of these two unfortunate victims in it

This is such a sad case.
I hope they can catch the perpetrators and throw the book at them.

This was a premeditated & grossly evil double homicide and these snakes need to be locked up asap

Yeah. I like one person who wanted this done, and two people who carried it out.

Someone always flips in this situation, but they need the evidence with which to do that.

 

[Cassady]

I agree to an extent, but I’d really hope that if LE felt they still needed evidence from or would have any future use for the crime scene, they would’ve cordoned it off somehow.
Is it on privately owned property? I’ve been here since the beginning of this thread and still haven’t figured out the exact location of the crime scene.

Sometimes LE discovers something in their investigation as it progresses that they didn't know on day one. That may require them to re-examine a previously investigated area. We are just shy of 14 days into the investigation.

This area is remote and LE could not possibly secure it. They also assumed that locals would have enough common sense to stay away from the area and they would normally be right...IMO

LE, especially the sheriff's office, probably did not consider the flock of youtubers that might descend on the scene like grasshoppers during the dust bowl...IMO

Irregardless common sense would be to stay away from the area...unless you need to go through there to get to one of your fields...IMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes. I think they knew they’d be dealing with two women, and planned on abducting and murdering them both.

The scenario that makes the most sense to me is that they didn’t want to leave a bloody mess there, and just wanted the women to vanish. Something must have altered those plans.

Do we know if either VB or JK owned a gun?

 

[MassGuy]

Do we know if either VB or JK owned a gun?

We haven’t heard anything in that regard. I’m struggling to even wrap my head around them being shot in the first place, let alone some sort of standoff/shootout.

It’s the whole removing them from the scene that gets me.

Just even more brazen than we imagined.

 

[Cassady]

Yeah. I like one person who wanted this done, and two people who carried it out.

Someone always flips in this situation, but they need the evidence with which to do that.

OK does not play when it comes to the DP...they will put you down...IMO

This will most definitely be a DP case and thus life becomes a good chip to induce a flip.

However, these are good old boy counties. If the people involved have clout (real, not internet jargin), it may be tough to get anyone to talk. Even with the DP at play...IMO

 

[shefner]

A local mentioned early on that a gun was involved but I never posted that information. I treated it as a rumor since we have no confirmation. But this is why I mentioned the possibility of there being a shell casing in a post earlier this week. A shell casing is identifying evidence since it can be linked to a specific firearm.

 

[CuriousCricket]

We haven’t heard anything in that regard. I’m struggling to even wrap my head around them being shot in the first place, let alone some sort of standoff/shootout.

It’s the whole removing them from the scene that gets me.

Just even more brazen than we imagined.

Wonder what may have gone wrong for the perps and why the women were removed from the scene. Any ideas?

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I think removing them from the scene would have been a requirement of the person who set this act in motion. If Veronica was, in fact, the target and the reason for the murder was linked to the ongoing custody battle, I think the person responsible wanted her not just dead, but vanished. Erased from existence. No body to mourn, no big tragic funeral, no resting place for anyone to visit, just gone.

IMO, MOO, etc., etc.

 

[shefner]

We haven’t heard anything in that regard. I’m struggling to even wrap my head around them being shot in the first place, let alone some sort of standoff/shootout.

It’s the whole removing them from the scene that gets me.

Just even more brazen than we imagined.

I wonder if the women were removed from the car and one (or both) of them attempted to run. This would fall into your scenario of the unexpected happening and things spiraling out of control. This may have prompted a shooting. This would also explain the reported puddles of blood outside the car.

 

[MassGuy]

Wonder what may have gone wrong for the perps and why the women were removed from the scene. Any ideas?

I think the removal was the plan all along; no body no crime.

I guess the next best thing in that scenario is cutting your losses and taking the bodies/dying victims anyway. It does mitigate physical evidence and proof of death.

I think maybe the driver attempted to hit the gas, or the women weren’t compliant. It’s just impossible to know how this likely went down without knowing more about the scene.

But I do think they were dead no matter what. There was only one ending designed here.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 12, 2024

Missing Kansas moms were shot, blood found near car: NewsNation

NewsNation, which is owned by KSN’s parent company Nexstar, has reported Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley were shot, and blood was found near the car they were last seen in.

www.ksn.com

• The OSBI confirmed to KSN Friday night that authorities are searching a large area in Texas County, Oklahoma, but did not give specifics.
• NewsNation is also reporting that 10 days before the moms went missing, Butler filed a court petition for full custody of her children. KSN requested that court document, but it is now sealed.
• The revised order sealing and restricting the case says the document was sealed after Butler and Kelley went missing and that it was to “protect the integrity of a criminal investigation and to protect minor children.”
• KSN also asked who requested to have the court filing sealed, and was told that information is also sealed.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think removing them from the scene would have been a requirement of the person who set this act in motion. If Veronica was, in fact, the target and the reason for the murder was linked to the ongoing custody battle, I think the person responsible wanted her not just dead, but vanished. Erased from existence. No body to mourn, no big tragic funeral, no resting place for anyone to visit, just gone.

IMO, MOO, etc., etc.

I wonder if the perps knew they had only a short time? Or were they anxious to get away from the Kia because it was daylight and someone might come along to later describe or have a dash cam to photo the vehicle(s) of the perps?

 

[Knox]

The classic ambush murder/remove the bodies from the scene scenario. In broad daylight too.

I’ve just got to believe that things didn’t go as planned, and this was initially meant to be an abduction murder.

I’ve just never seen this before.

So Veronica filed custody action 10 days before they went missing - asking for increased visitation/full custody.
The timing of this is just so damn obvious, along with the removal of the bodies.

NO one could be this bad at planning a murder, so I agree. Something went south in a big way, and/or the "hired help" was poorly recruited for the job.

 

[MassGuy]

OK does not play when it comes to the DP...they will put you down...IMO

This will most definitely be a DP case and thus life becomes a good chip to induce a flip.

However, these are good old boy counties. If the people involved have clout (real, not internet jargin), it may be tough to get anyone to talk. Even with the DP at play...IMO

We see this sort of thing in Texas and Florida quite a bit; other states where they don’t play.

It just seems that a trigger man invariably flips for a life sentence, which ensures they get the solicitor.

That, or someone even less involved than that flips.

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I wonder if the perps knew they had only a short time? Or were they anxious to get away from the Kia because it was daylight and someone might come along to later describe or have a dash cam to photo the vehicle(s) of the perps?

I imagine even the dumbest criminals must have realized they'd have to work fast considering they were going to pull this stunt out in broad daylight. That may have been what led to shooting them in the car instead of abducting them alive and taking them somewhere else to finish them off. The perp(s) may have imagined two women all by their lonesome might have done what they were told when the bad guy showed up and whipped out a gun, but then they refused to comply or tried to fight back, or locked themselves in the car and tried to get away, or tried to call 911/someone else or whatever Mr. Perp didn't plan for and he panicked and just started shooting so the whole thing didn't go completely sideways.

 

[MassGuy]

I imagine even the dumbest criminals must have realized they'd have to work fast considering they were going to pull this stunt out in broad daylight. That may have been what led to shooting them in the car instead of abducting them alive and taking them somewhere else to finish them off. The perp(s) may have imagined two women all by their lonesome might have done what they were told when the bad guy showed up and whipped out a gun, but then they refused to comply or tried to fight back, or locked themselves in the car and tried to get away, or tried to call 911/someone else or whatever Mr. Perp didn't plan for and he panicked and just started shooting so the whole thing didn't go completely sideways.

I didn’t even think about them trying to call 911. That sounds like as good a reason as any for bullets to fly.

 

[NDreu]

Question: Is NN now reporting that the two women were shot by referring to “puddles of blood”?

Quote from article:

NewsNation previously reported that a small amount of blood was found inside the vehicle, but sources now say that there were also separate puddles of blood outside of the vehicle.

Missing Kansas moms shot, blood found near car: Sources

Police say Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley of Hugoton, Kansas, were last seen March 30.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think the removal was the plan all along; no body no crime.

I guess the next best thing in that scenario is cutting your losses and taking the bodies/dying victims anyway. It does mitigate physical evidence and proof of death.

I think maybe the driver attempted to hit the gas, or the women weren’t compliant. It’s just impossible to know how this likely went down without knowing more about the scene.

But I do think they were dead no matter what. There was only one ending designed here.

Thanks. Very interesting.

Agreed. No body, no crime. No bodies, less evidence. Many shooters don't have the luxury of such vastness and remoteness in which to "disappear" a victim. And cattle sized incinerators are terrifying news to me.

I hope the women were so non-compliant they shot and hit one of the perps so some of the blood will identify someone . . . I have little to no hope of this, but wouldn't it be grand?

I also wonder if it is just coincidence that JK was the supervisor for the visit and was also said to be the least favorite of TA?

 

[concernedmother]

So Veronica filed custody action 10 days before they went missing - asking for increased visitation/full custody.
The timing of this is just so damn obvious, along with the removal of the bodies.

NO one could be this bad at planning a murder, so I agree. Something went south in a big way, and/or the "hired help" was poorly recruited for the job.

Made someone mad enough that they were willing to take an innocent bystander out knowing there would be one with VB. I think the question here is who helped ?