Once Again

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Shylock
It's NOT an "internet myth" when it's been published in a book written by a detective on the case who had the photographic evidence right in his hand. NOBODY directly involved with the case has contradicted Thomas' story about the dictionary--not even Lou Smit.

Naybe because they thought it was pointless and there were more important points of evidence to be hashingover.....

 

[Ivy]

Even if John and Patsy knew the definition of "incest," Burke might not have--and JonBenet likely didn't. It's possible that at one time or another before JonBenet's death, John or Patsy, having caught Burke and JonBenet playing doctor, looked up the word to show Burke, and maybe JonBenet too, even though she was just six. It could explain why the dictionary page was dog-eared to point to "incest."

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by ajt400
You have photographic evidence of the Ramsey's holding the dictionary open to the page incest is on???
What do you mean by photographic evidence.

The BPD has the photographic evidence. In Thomas' book he details the story of when he and Donald Foster were looking through evidence envelopes and found a crime scene photo the technicians took which included the dictionary. It was open and the page was "dog-eared"--pointing to the word "incest".

Perhaps someone with Thomas' book handy can give you a page number.

 

[sissi]

There is a local guy here who spent 9 yrs on death row for the murder of a little nine year old girl. Through the innocence program he was not only released but the real perp is finally being brought to justice. I believe it's been nineteen years since the child was found.
Little Dawn was playing hide and seek along with four other little friends when a man approached,he told them to spread out to look for the "it" child. Within minutes they realized something was wrong,and ran just yards away to their backyard yelling for a mom. Later the police found Dawn,bound,strangled with a cord around her neck and molested with a stick.
During the questioning ,by police,the only things the girls could remember was his bushy red hair and freckles. Soon, Bloodsworth was picked up,his hair was consistant with hair found at the crime,fibers from blue jeans were ,as well,and although the man had no prior record ,absolutely no history,he sadly didn't have an alibi for that day. Sad day for a red head in Levis.
Amazingly, samples ,taken at autopsy ,were preserved,not degraded, and were used to match the real perp whose dna was in a dna data bank. Did this guy have a history? Yes,a history of child molestation,the rapes of two adult women,and many rehab trips for alcohol and drug abuse ,spanning two decades.
I believe when the killer of Jonbenet is found he will have this history,as well.
What I do question is this,did he commit this crime on his own,or was he a hire?

IMO JMO

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/wrongful/exonerations/Bloodsworth_MD.htm

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by sissi
What I do question is this,did he commit this crime on his own,or was he a hire?

You should question a LOT more than just that!

How did know the amount of John's bonus?

How did he know the alarm wasn't on , or wouldn't be set when they arrived home?

How did he know the dog was no longer around?

How did he know the Ramseys wouldn't stop at the airport and return home with JAR, Melinda, and a host of other family members to spend the holidays?

How did he know how to immitate Patsy handwriting?

How did he know JonBenet liked, and would eat, Pineapple?

How did he know one of the parents wouldn't stay up until the wee hours of the night packing for their trip?

How did he know he could walk up to, and away from, the Ramsey house, without a single person in the neighborhood seeing him--on a night when virtually everyone stays up late and nobody has to get up for work in the morning?

And that's just a start. Yep, this intruder certainly new more than any other intruder in the history of modern crime.

 

[Ivy]

Exactly, Shylock.

And, sissi, how did the killer know that even though John wasn't a southerner, the family liked to tease him by telling him to use his "good southern common sense"?

 

[sissi]

A few days ago I considered the possibility,Shylock,that Wecht was right about a molestation occuring a few days before the murder. I'm not saying I believe it,however, I am considering scenarios that would include this and make sense.
If one molested her on Monday,needed her dead before Charlevoix,what steps would he take to protect himself . Would he spend his money on a hit,do the job himself, prepare the ransom note,check the 911 response and lend a key? I don't know,but I see nothing wrong with considering every possibility ,since IMO the current thinking is not solving anything.
IMO JMO

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Shylock
You should question a LOT more than just that!

How did know the amount of John's bonus?

How did he know the alarm wasn't on , or wouldn't be set when they arrived home?

How did he know the dog was no longer around?

How did he know the Ramseys wouldn't stop at the airport and return home with JAR, Melinda, and a host of other family members to spend the holidays?

How did he know how to immitate Patsy handwriting?

How did he know JonBenet liked, and would eat, Pineapple?

How did he know one of the parents wouldn't stay up until the wee hours of the night packing for their trip?

How did he know he could walk up to, and away from, the Ramsey house, without a single person in the neighborhood seeing him--on a night when virtually everyone stays up late and nobody has to get up for work in the morning?

And that's just a start. Yep, this intruder certainly new more than any other intruder in the history of modern crime.

I thought the amount of the ransom demand was resolved long ago--that number was everywhere, it was not just knowledge of the immediate family. I think alot of these things could be known by someone who had been watching the family for a few (days. months), maybe was close to the family. Stalkers have intimate knowledge of the people they stalk, why wouldn't this guy? Even someone who had molested her and planned for her to be killed would have cased the house so he would be sure not to be caught.

Secondly, about the bonus, if the Ramseys were writing a fake ransom note, why not make the amount 1 million or more? They would have known that they would never have to collect it. Also, why would the R's put a number that would be traced back to them so quickly?:dontknow:

 

[Ivy]

ajt, almost right away, John told LE he thought the kidnapping (JonBenet's body hadn't been found yet) was an "inside job." I think the Ramseys deliberately chose $118,000 as the ransom amount to point the finger at various people within their circle of friends and business associates (for instance, Greg Merriman) who would know, or who could find out, the amount of John's bonus.

On December 26, John gave Jeff Merrick's name to the police. Merrick was a former employee of AG and had been angry at John for having been let go at AG. Merrick had claimed AG owed him close to $118,000. He settled for around half that amount, but he was overheard by an AG employee to say he was going to get John. How Merrick "got" him was by sending a fax to Lockheed Martin critcizing the way he thought John treated employees.

It's also been speculated that the ransom note amount had something to do with Psalm 118. I remember reading in PMPT that a Bible found on John's desk was open to Psalm 118, and also that a particular verse in Psalm 118 was known to be one of Patsy's favorites.

 

[ajt400]

So why not $118 or $118 million for that matter? Also, if your shild were kidnapped (or so you thought) and the police asked you if anyone would have hated you enought to do something like this, would you not have told them of a disgruntled employee?

I think everyone agrees whether or not they believe the R's committed the murder or at that this was an inside job.

 

[twilight]

I can't resist saying just a word (make that 31 words) about that dictionary and 'incest.'

I opened my OED to see what else was on the ‘incest’ page in my dictionary. I took 15 words that proceeded ‘incest’ and 15 words that followed ‘incest’ and I would like someone to explain to me why that word…easily spelled and commonly understood, would be the more likely subject of a dictionary exploration???

I have italicized all the words with religious connotations - it being Xmas and all, and the Rams being devout whatevers...
I have underlined all the words with legal associations - oh-oh, you're sitting on a stiff and the jig will soon be up...

Then there's the Patsy - cancer survivor (medical) blah, blah, blah, and the innocuous 'incisor' which could have something to do with Burke's teething...

incantation
incapable
incapacitate
incapacity
incarcerate
incarnate
incarnation
incautious
incendiary a bit of a stretch, but if you believe in ‘hell’…
incense
incense
incentive
inception
inceptive
incessant
incest
incestuous
inch
inchoate
incidence
incident
incidental
incidentally
incidental music – this is background music
_________
incinerate - fire again
incinerator
_________
incipient
_________
incise - medical terms
incision
incisive
incisor – Burke was teething according to the Xmas letter.

My favourite is ‘inchoate’ which is an adj. meaning just begun or undeveloped. It is sometimes mistakenly used to mean ‘chaotic’ or ‘incoherent.’ hmmmm…head injury – incoherent?

I can’t define all of these for you, too time consuming, but invite you to pull out your dictionary and look them up…you’d be surprised.

Had a dictionary been used that fateful night, there would be no bussiness, no posession, and no scutiny.

Incidentally, incest is defined as: n. sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry. [Latin castus
chaste] - So, had someone proposed and been rejected, ya think?

 

[Toth]

>How did know the amount of John's bonus?
He may not have. Even if the ransom amount IS related to the bonus, he could have found that information inside the home.

>How did he know the alarm wasn't on , or wouldn't be set when they arrived home?
Basement windows in older homes in the area are rarely alarmed. Certainly if no cops showed up within a half hour, he was safe.

>How did he know the dog was no longer around?
He may not have known there was ever a dog. He sure didn't see or hear one.

>How did he know the Ramseys wouldn't stop at the airport and return home with JAR, Melinda, and a host of other family members to spend the holidays?
..He may not have known this.

>How did he know how to immitate Patsy handwriting?
I don't think he did imitate Patsy's handwriting.

>How did he know JonBenet liked, and would eat, Pineapple?
I doubt he knew or cared what she liked and I sure don't think he fed her any pineapple.

>How did he know one of the parents wouldn't stay up until the wee hours of the night packing for their trip?
He didn't.

>How did he know he could walk up to, and away from, the Ramsey house, without a single person in the neighborhood seeing him--on a night when virtually everyone stays up late and nobody has to get up for work in the morning?
Somebody may indeed have seen him as he approached the house; someone may have seen him leave too... BPD should have canvassed the neighborhood. Didn't.

 

[ajt400]

Good poins, Toth. But I stick to my post that if someone was watching the family, they would have known these things. If the person was a friend of the family, they would have known that they didn't use the alarm.

 

[Toth]

Yes, its true that an intruder would have had more confidence if he had prior access to the home and prior knowledge that the alarm was never used, prior knowledge that there was no dog around, etc.... but that would just make the job easier by a very little bit. It was easy to get into that home. Look at the burglary rate for the neighborhood: very high. Lots of entries into homes in daylight and at night.
But it is true: the more you know the easier it is to enter the home with confidence.

 

[Ivy]

LOL, Toth. Even houseguests of the Ramseys had trouble finding their way around the Ramseys' Boulder house. Patsy said on TV during an Atlanta interview (the one in which John and Patsy were outside, standing by a birdhouse) that their guests joked that they had to scatter breadcrumbs to find their way around. John gave Patsy a look that said SHUT UP, YOU STUPID WOMAN, and she did...but the damage was done.

So you think that even though houseguests had trouble navigating the house that Spazzy, or whatever you call the painter guy, could have, even in the dark?

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Ivy even in the dark?

Maybe he brought a flashlight... and left it on the kitchen counter?

 

[Britt]

Originally posted by twilight
Had a dictionary been used that fateful night, there would be no bussiness, no posession, and no scutiny.

How true, twilight....lol.

Incidentally, incest is defined as: n. sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry.

I would think that even the perfect sheltered devout whatevers (lol well put, twilight) Patsy and John would know that incest would be defined as sexual contact between parent and child OR between siblings... full siblings, that is.

Maybe the official definition was needed in order to figure out if sexual contact between half siblings counts as incest.

 

[Britt]

Originally posted by Ivy
...almost right away, John told LE he thought the kidnapping (JonBenet's body hadn't been found yet) was an "inside job." I think the Ramseys deliberately chose $118,000 as the ransom amount to point the finger at various people within their circle of friends and business associates (for instance, Greg Merriman) who would know, or who could find out, the amount of John's bonus.

I completely agree, Ivy.

Per the "Bonita Papers" (Spade's posts... see the Spade/FFJ thread), John said: It has to be an inside job. It has to be somebody that knows the family. Nobody knows about the wine cellar in the basement.

Both John and Patsy were helpfully offering up those inside suspects that very first morning.

 

[Ivy]

Toth, the flashlight (which, interestingly, was devoid of fingerprints, even on the batteries) that was found on the kitchen counter was the Maglite John Andrew once gave John as a gift. Patsy said she had never seen the Maglite in the kitchen before and that it was out of place there. It was always kept in a drawer in the wet bar and was used mainly by John in the garage.

How did the Intruder manage to slip through the basement window and make his way through the darkened, cluttered basement and up the darkened stairs and then, still in the dark, find the very drawer that happened to contain a flashlight?

Did the Intruder exit the house through the kitchen when he finished his dirty deed and wipe his prints off the Maglite and the batteries and thoughtfully leave it on the counter on his way out? If he exited the house via the basement window, why didn't he take the Maglite with him to the basement so he wouldn't trip over something in the cluttered darkness and break his freakin' neck?

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Ivy
So you think that even though houseguests had trouble navigating the house that Spazzy, or whatever you call the painter guy, could have, even in the dark?

Yes, if one was trying to familiarize himself with the house as well as the people who live in it---and their schedules.

My boyfriend works as a kitchen manager at a local restaurant and 3 weeks ago he was almost robbed. On Mon. mornings he would go in at 5AM to do a food cast inventory. But when he got to work that day, the place was surrounded with cops, SLED, SWAT....they had received atip from someone that this restaurant was going to be robbed. They had just pulled 5 guys with 2 shotguns and 3 pistols out of the bushes---they were waiting for him.
He found out later that day they had been watching him for 3 weeks. They knew exactly when he would get to work, how long he would take to walk to the door, his normal procedures in the morning, what time the next manager showed up...

Where there is a will there is a way.