OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #13

[cj1132]

I realize this thread is moving quickly and people are skipping posts in order to catch up.

I would like to make it very clear that I would NEVER blame a parent if his or her child went missing. This is not because of TOS but because of my own personal choice. I agree with Bean 100% in saying I would rather give the benefit of the doubt to parents in any missing child case and if they end up being charged, I'll move on from that point. If a parent is innocent, I don't want to contribute to the pain they are already going through. JMO JMO JMO

 

[CocoChanel]

I don't understand the reasoning that it is suspicious that she took a photo of Kyron. It's normal to take photos of your kids at school events! Bizarre thinking/accusation.

I don't think there has been anyone saying it is suspicious that a picture was taken under these cirumstances at all. I think it is the interpretation of scrutiny of that photo and it's relationship to this bizarre and tragic situation as a whole.

 

[Pensfan]

Filicide is interesting to read about. I posted a number of documents on it over in Caylee's thread some time ago.

But that's off-topic for this thread, no?

Very respectfully, no. We were discussing about whether the LE officer had "entrapped" the family by telling them it was ok to go about their "daily activities". I explained that LE needed to assess the family for previous domestic violence, child abuse, intact marriage and etc...to determine if Kyron's parent fit the profile of someone who might have murdered their child.
I posted sources for WSers about filicide because this is how one learns what attributes and behaviors the FBI is attempting to "assess" in a family with a missing child.

 

[jokie7348]

Now that the search for Kyron has turned into a criminal investigation, I have held in my mind something that might be a possibility. Remember the man who reported the sighting of a car once in the afternoon and once in the early morning hours. I can't help wondering about him. I know we can't sleuth publicly on anyone who has not been named a POI, but there is a lack of info available on him. I can't even find the address although he lives near the school. Some of you super-sleuthers might have a go at this. I'm not a sleuther....just a lurker. JMOO

 

[CN2Souls]

can you show some stats to rehabed pedo's???? I will never ever believe they can change.....ever

I can state as a professional and can use my computer data base as “link” evidence having worked in a prison for 10 year as a shrink for pedophiles they are not rehabilitated!
They reoffend 95% of the time and the others escalate and become murders.

:banghead:

 

[eyes4crime]

thank you and everyone for the welcome and the hugs! :blushingsmiley:

here's an early oregonlive.com [click for source] story published June 6, 2010:

"Until now, Skyline School officials did not generally call home concerning absences, said Portland schools spokesman Matt Shelby.

"It's a really small school," Shelby said. "They know their students and usually they know the reason for the absence."

Personal calls for parental notification will be used until the automated system is in place at Skyline, which will likely take about a week, Smith said.

Currently, 37 out of 57 elementary and K-8 schools in the district use the dialing system, which is already in use at all of the district's middle and high schools.

Shelby said the automated dialer system was first primarily used for truancy, which typically is not a significant problem at elementary and K-8 schools."

Thank you for finding this...:hug: that was in the very first thread, maybe in the first pages - we discussed it for ever. This information helps a great deal in understanding how the case came about. moo (my opinion only).

 

[JBean]

Jaycee Dugards step father was also a victim of unfair accusations. As a matter of fact, I think there were people that were still sure it was him up until Garrido was exposed.

If we err, let's do it on the side of caution. The family may very well be involved and I don't think that anyone thinks it is impossible or unheard of. Many have been around the block a few times on this forum and know that there are no rules as to who could potentially harm a small child.

But until we have more information, things will remain as they are.

I want to thank everyone that has made a true effort to post within guidelines. i know it is frustrating and some of you are down right unhappy and ready to bust! but it is a small price to pay if the family is not involved KWIM?
But if they are involved or someone else, we will all move forward with the goal of finding out what happened to Kyron and getting that little dude some justice

 

[Bee Charmer]

This article--Kyron Horman Search May Have Suffered From Confluence of Delays--resulted in this response from the owner of the building where the pressers have been held.

(Image credit: Williamette Weekly)

Maybe it's just me... but I didn't see anything critical of law enforcement in the Oregonian article. Anyone else?

Nope, the blame was put on the school and the 911 operator, imo. Then there is this, from that article:

During the next 4 1/2 hours, authorities mobilized a full-scale search effort involving federal agents who specialize in child-abduction cases.

Proving to me that these LEO knew what was the more likely scenario from the first hours.

 

[squeaky]

They reoffend 95% of the time and the others escalate and become murders.

:banghead:

well there goes GrainneDhu's theory lolololololol

 

[CharlestonGal]

I wonder who else was marked absent that day? I would hope that LE talked to the parents of the other kids who were marked "absent" right along with Kyron, and where those kids were. There may be other kids whose parents thought they were at school all day and weren't.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I hope it is okay that I post this...

I am in the camp that has kept quiet b/c of what I think is *likely* to have happened - I have two different scenarios. With that being said, I'm not sure that I would like to be able to freely say in these forums everything that I am thinking. The main reason is this: I was one of the ones who just KNEW that little Somer had fallen victim to a family member. Even now with the actual culprit in custody, my intellect knows the truth but my gut can't shake my original thought about family. Mostly b/c of things I learned about certain people that cast them in a questionable light. And countless people knew details about their personal life that I don't think anyone would want known to the public. Because much of it is different that my own values and lifestyle, I took it as evidence that they must be "bad" and involved in Somer's disappearance. In the end, they were all innocent. But because of what I know about their private lives, I now have to remind myself of that when I think of them: they're innocent.

I still have my hunches here, and am sleuthing in private. And I'm okay with that. I think it's important not to permanently imprint into people brains (and the internet) that someone is guilty of something as serious as kidnapping and/or murder. Even if innocent, being guilty in the eyes of the public can have devastating consequences on someone's life.

Hope this makes sense.

Thank you for your post.I feel it was from your heart.I was one of the ones defending little Somers mother.I felt she was very innocent.But I am on the very oppisite side of my feelings in little Kyrons case of how I feel about the SM and I'm not sure how to handle this.I'm use to defending people.I'm not sure what to feel here.I do not have enough information to go on to know what is going on yet.Didn't the FBI says somewhere they would reveal more about little Kyrons case soon.I hope they do.I do not think this family or the SM should be bashed or cut down in any way.I will wait and see what the LE and FBI are finding out and leave it to them and pray for Kyron.They need to keep looking and try to find him.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Would you kindly post a link to these FBI statistics, thank you.

You can get the raw statistics with a small amount of analysis here (you will need Adobe Acrobat reader):

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/

Here are two websites that condense the statistics and provide some analysis:

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

http://www.atsa.com/ppOffenderFacts.html

 

[s_finch]

I can state as a professional and can use my computer data base as “link” evidence having worked in a prison for 10 year as a shrink for pedophiles they are not rehabilitated!
They reoffend 95% of the time and the others escalate and become murders.

:banghead:

Felt like above bears repeating.

 

[GourmetSoy]

I hope it is okay that I post this...

I am in the camp that has kept quiet b/c of what I think is *likely* to have happened - I have two different scenarios. With that being said, I'm not sure that I would like to be able to freely say in these forums everything that I am thinking. The main reason is this: I was one of the ones who just KNEW that little Somer had fallen victim to a family member. Even now with the actual culprit in custody, my intellect knows the truth but my gut can't shake my original thought about family. Mostly b/c of things I learned about certain people that cast them in a questionable light. And countless people knew details about their personal life that I don't think anyone would want known to the public. Because much of it is different that my own values and lifestyle, I took it as evidence that they must be "bad" and involved in Somer's disappearance. In the end, they were all innocent. But because of what I know about their private lives, I now have to remind myself of that when I think of them: they're innocent.

I still have my hunches here, and am sleuthing in private. And I'm okay with that. I think it's important not to permanently imprint into people brains (and the internet) that someone is guilty of something as serious as kidnapping and/or murder. Even if innocent, being guilty in the eyes of the public can have devastating consequences on someone's life.

Hope this makes sense.

Thank you very much for saying that! I very much respect your honesty!

(rest is just general and not responding directly to your post Belimom)
I think because we are here on the internet and seemingly anonymous that some have mistakenly become a little lax in who they are making their accusations against and what those accusations are. We are not LE or detectives, though at times we have been helpful and supportive to families and victims in great ways. These words will be viewable by these families and all that know them for as long as the internet exists. There is absolutely no reason proven that the family had anything to do with Kyrons disappearance. There has not been one shred of evidence released pointing to the family. No, they haven't stated that they've been cleared but in my opinion are clearly trying to protect them. I will trust LE on this one until told otherwise.

Yes, I know that 49% of these cases involve family members, but 51% do not and the way I see it the family has 50/50 odds of it not being them which means it could be anyone else.

It's fine to believe what you want but you don't have to make open accusations about the family on an open forum. Would you make those accusations directly to them if you met them face to face or would you want to comfort them because they are going through one of the most horrid things imaginable? I for one would not wish this on my worst enemy.

 

[violet67]

I hope it is okay that I post this...

I am in the camp that has kept quiet b/c of what I think is *likely* to have happened - I have two different scenarios. With that being said, I'm not sure that I would like to be able to freely say in these forums everything that I am thinking. The main reason is this: I was one of the ones who just KNEW that little Somer had fallen victim to a family member. Even now with the actual culprit in custody, my intellect knows the truth but my gut can't shake my original thought about family. Mostly b/c of things I learned about certain people that cast them in a questionable light. And countless people knew details about their personal life that I don't think anyone would want known to the public. Because much of it is different that my own values and lifestyle, I took it as evidence that they must be "bad" and involved in Somer's disappearance. In the end, they were all innocent. But because of what I know about their private lives, I now have to remind myself of that when I think of them: they're innocent.

I still have my hunches here, and am sleuthing in private. And I'm okay with that. I think it's important not to permanently imprint into people brains (and the internet) that someone is guilty of something as serious as kidnapping and/or murder. Even if innocent, being guilty in the eyes of the public can have devastating consequences on someone's life.

Hope this makes sense.

this case has so many of the same characteristics as somer's IMO. About 2 days in there seemed to be a distict division of opinion so much like what happened with diena. I was in the opposite camp at that time and it drove me crazy when i heard the accusations against her primarily due to her FB entries, her BF and her choice of clothing. I feel the vilification of diena all through the internet was extraordinarily cruel and did not hear much follow-up about contriteness and "eating crow" I don't think I have seen any remarks of that calliber in this case directed at SM but i know there are a lot of strong opinions and theorys out there and i think it would be the height of denial if we didn't consider them. But you are right....the court of public opinion will probably always judge diena and i would feel terrible if that were the case here. I still think though that people have to remain objective and analytical in this circumstance. To do otherwise would be spinning our wheels.

 

[Beyond Belief]

We need to look outside the box. LE is definitely covering family, friends, and associates.

I haven't read what the profiler came up with, do we have it available?

 

[Bee Charmer]

Now that the search for Kyron has turned into a criminal investigation, I have held in my mind something that might be a possibility. Remember the man who reported the sighting of a car once in the afternoon and once in the early morning hours. I can't help wondering about him. I know we can't sleuth publicly on anyone who has not been named a POI, but there is a lack of info available on him. I can't even find the address although he lives near the school. Some of you super-sleuthers might have a go at this. I'm not a sleuther....just a lurker. JMOO

If this is the man who saw the white pick up, with a female driver, his name was revealed in an article, iirc. Try searching the local papers for that article.

I confess to being a little curious about that white pick up myself.

 

[JBean]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106653"]Professional Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[redkatrampant]

You can get the raw statistics with a small amount of analysis here (you will need Adobe Acrobat reader):

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/

Here are two websites that condense the statistics and provide some analysis:

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

http://www.atsa.com/ppOffenderFacts.html

ATSA is well known for skewing data. I don't know about the others. But I will say this, there is no way that any "statistics" can make me think they are capable of rehabilitation. If you KNEW they had done it before would you leave your child with them?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe it was Friday night, a poster on here mentioned she was speaking to a searcher who IIRC they were asking for bottled water, etc. donations for the search until Tues. If the searcher did have accurate info. this leads me to believe LE has had some break in the case to change the direction to a criminal investigation. I don't think it was a witness from the school or they would have probably come forward sooner I would think. I would like to believe they are focusing on someone and are now gathering evidence for an arrest. It would not surprise me at all if we see a confession before an arrest. ~ Just some thoughts.

I think they stopped most of their searching today because the experts have told them how long a child of his age and weight could live in that terrain and weather conditions.

Or they have had a massive amount of certified searchers who know how to do this and imo they were able to complete their search quicker than regular searchers and have exhausted all areas to search in masses.

I do not see an arrest soon and I sure don't see a confession coming. I dont even feel sure they have a name of a suspect. They may have a composite drawing by now and a discription of a particular vehicle but that is a long way off from finding this person and making an arrest.

JMO though.