OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #14

[BeanE]

The picture was taken on the 4th that morning.


Parent Gina Zimmerman was at the school for the science fair, which she described as major academic and social event for the school where the day's events included an afternoon talent show.

She said Kyron is not the type of child to wander off. "He knows 'stranger danger," she said. "He's a really good kid."

Parents are shocked at the disappearance, she said, and have been calling to share concerns at "our little school where everyone knows everybody."

She last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. He was posing for a picture taken by his mother, whom he loves, Zimmerman said.

Zimmerman's daughter Madi is one of Kyron's best friends.

The 8-year-old said she and Kyron would play Dragons and Knights and sway together on the tire swings. "I'm very worried and I hope he's okay," she said.

She also said Kyron would not have gone off with a stranger, only with his mother, whom he loves.


The above is from this link: http://www.helpfindmychild.net/kyron-horman

Bless you for finding that, BillyLee

 

[keeponsearching]

I'm having two problems with time frames. :waitasec:

1. Left the school at 8:45 am? Well, actually, we only have SM's word on that. Imo, that does not make it fact. ....... Oh, ok, ....maybe she was mistaken about the time???

2. If the first morning bell rings at 8:35 am and the second/final morning bell rings at 8:45 am, as stated someplace in our million threads, why, if you arrive as early as 8:00 am to see the Science Fair, would you dally long enough to cause a child to be "barely on time/late" in getting to the classroom by waiting until 8:45 am, after most everyone is inside their classrooms and out of the hallway? So yeah, that 8:45 gets to me. ... especially since Kyron apparently never made it the extra distance down the hallway to his classroom as far as we know.

Now I am sure scads of you will say it's nice to take your time and leisurely stroll 45 minutes through the exhibits at a tiny school, or maybe a child needed to use the bathroom at 8:35 am, therefore, he might not make it to class 'til 8:45 am, or with the school's lax policy, what difference does it make anyway, but it's just something that's been bugging me, that's all.

Do we have the exact time they came to school?

 

[kgeaux]

Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman was missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

Tanner is Kyron's deskmate in their combined second-third grade classroom. Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother leave the school without Kyron.


This whole scenario bugs me. WHO LEFT? The teacher?, The substitute? And why was there a substitute if the teacher was there? Perhaps it was a teachers aid and not a sub? And whomever left where did they go? Did they leave for the day? Did they looking for Kyron, find him and then leave for the day?
This bugs me. And it bugs me that Kyron's backpack was there and if the teacher stayed there that day, then how come she never reported Kyron missing when he didn't come back from the bathroom?

I know this is just a youngster talking, but why would they make that up? Out of the mouths of babes.......

The way the sentence reads, it seems to me that the woman identified by Tanner as a substitute is the one who left. I could be wrong, but he calls his teacher by name and the substitute "she." Whether the substitute was a class mom or a paraprofessional or whatever, I feel so sorry for her. How horrible to think you noticed when a child first went missing and didn't insist on there being some sort of follow-up.

An interesting point has been made regarding the jacket and backpack. If there are hooks or cubby holes in the back of the classroom for the children to place backpacks, etc., then the teacher may not have realized Kyron's stuff was back there.

If it was at his desk, then that would be more worrisome to me, because it would tend to imply that the SM intended for Kyron to remain in school all day.....why bring a book sack if you are leaving right after looking at the science exhibits?

 

[BeanE]

To be honest when LE say things like that...its going to make the public question the Step Mother. Ie if it wasnt taken that day it changes things...so I think the cops are being kinda stupid there

I disagree that it's LE's fault that people are suspicious of some things they don't comment on and not others. That certainly doesn't stem from LE.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I'm having two problems with time frames. :waitasec:

1. Left the school at 8:45 am? Well, actually, we only have SM's word on that. Imo, that does not make it fact. ....... Oh, ok, ....maybe she was mistaken about the time???

2. If the first morning bell rings at 8:35 am and the second/final morning bell rings at 8:45 am, as stated someplace in our million threads, why, if you arrive as early as 8:00 am to see the Science Fair, would you dally long enough to cause a child to be "barely on time/late" in getting to the classroom by waiting until 8:45 am, after most everyone is inside their classrooms and out of the hallway? So yeah, that 8:45 gets to me. ... especially since Kyron apparently never made it the extra distance down the hallway to his classroom as far as we know.

Now I am sure scads of you will say it's nice to take your time and leisurely stroll 45 minutes through the exhibits at a tiny school, or maybe a child needed to use the bathroom at 8:35 am, therefore, he might not make it to class 'til 8:45 am, or with the school's lax policy, what difference does it make anyway, but it's just something that's been bugging me, that's all.

Yes, I think the emptying/empty hallways between 0840 and 0850 are a key ingredient. I think someone was waiting for that time frame that the halls were empty before all the children and teachers left their classrooms again.

 

[kgeaux]

I disagree that it's LE's fault that people are suspicious of some things they don't comment on and not others. That certainly doesn't stem from LE.

I know!! Gee whiz!

 

[Pensfan]

Here are factors assisting SAR’s decision on where to search for a disposal site of a victim.

From - Detection of Body Dump Sites and Clandestine Burials: a GIS -Based Landscape Approach by Hector A. Orengo

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...ar6iUO&sig=AHIEtbSumiusggvnfGz0Mmppr0YovkcE_Q

"1) Carrying of a corpse will necessarily require the use of a covered, motorized vehicle to the vicinity of the dump site. It has been commonly asserted that the majority of corpses have been found in close proximity to roads or parking areas (Streed 1989, in Killam 2004:17). Therefore, a search following the road network will have many more probabilities of success than a normal extensive search (Rossmo 2000:130).
2) Due to physical limitations, the usual distance covered dragging a body is about 50 ft on plain terrain (McLaughlin 1974:28, Morse et al. 1983:6). Keppel and Birnes (1995) have estimated the maximum distance to carry a body to 150 ft, even though, they agree with the 50 ft estimate as the usual distance. Following Burton (1998), Rossmo (2000:130) states that child bodies, being much lighter, can be carried for 200 ft. Of course, this will vary depending with the slope, kind of terrain, vegetation, and other factors. Effectively, 90% of the bodies are recovered downhill because it is easier for the offender to drag the victim (Sacks 1999; Hunter 1996b:92; Robbins 1977; Cherry and Angel 1977). The fact that from the road the visibility downhill is poor can be equally important regarding the offender’s choice of going downhill.
3) Terrain slope can be also very important when the body is buried: an excessive slope will render difficult the process of digging a grave.
4) As Killam (2004:17), following Streed (1989), has noted, “bodies are usually found off the right passenger side of the road, outbound from the city or town.” That is an important clue: knowing the departure site of the offender is important in order to give priority to the passenger side of the road in body search activities.
5) Most disposal sites are located within a 30-45 minute drive from the place where the body was picked up (Streed 1989, in Killam 2004:17). As Rossmo (2000:174) has shown, those sites are located at a mean distance of 33.7 km from the crime site. Fifty percent of those were located at more than 20 km. This data shows the wider distance range of body dump sites to which, consequently, is difficult to apply distance-decay parameters.
6) Lakes, deep rivers, and canals traditionally have been disposal points (Killam 2004:16, 18). Returning to Rossmo’s analysis (2000:175), of the 104 body dump sites considered, 20.2 % were located in rivers, lakes, or marshy areas.
7) Other places in which people are prone to hide bodies are wells, shafts, mines, or any other pre-existing hole (Killam 2004:16, 18; Levine et al. 1984)
8) It is possible to map those areas in which burial is feasible according to soil profile, land use, and underlying geology (Hunter 1996a:17 and 1996b:92).
9) Obviously, the most feasible place to look for a victim’s body will be determined by the crime’s particular circumstances. The first places to investigate will be the suspect’s properties (Killam 2004:14), mainly his or her residence. For obvious reasons, residences are not included in this project. Other urban areas are regarded as having low clandestine burial potential due to the high chance of the offender to be discovered.
10) As Killam has suggested (2004:18), dump sites will be out of sight of neighboring houses, but, as bodies are usually discarded at night, they have to be easily accessible in the dark."

On #5, distance is calculated differently for child abductions. The location of the site increases as the age of the child rises.

 

[mysticrose]

Kyron Horman investigators urge people to keep calling tip line
Published: Monday, June 14, 2010, 12:00 PM

Investigators today urged people to keep calling their tip line in the hope of turning up some clue to 7-year-old Kyron Horman's disappearance as they packed up and moved their field operation away from Skyline School, where the second-grader vanished June 4.
"This process is not over. We as an investigative team, the sheriff's office and all the people that are directly involved in this effort are resolute in bringing Kyron home," Multnomah County sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said. "This will not become a cold case for us. We will continue to investigate this case until we have it solved."

The tip line is 503-261-2847.

Gates laid out some of the plans for the new phase of the investigation. Skyline students, parents and staff will be interviewed again, he said, and a secondary canvass of the neighborhood around the school and other points of interest will occur

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_switch.html

 

[mysticrose]

Police vow Kyron Horman won't become 'cold case'

PORTLAND -- The lead officer in the investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance vowed to stay on the case until it’s solved.

“This process is not over… we as a team are resolute in bringing Kyron home. This will not become a cold case for us,” Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates promised during a Monday morning press conference.

Just the day before, authorities had announced that the search and rescue operation had officially transformed into a criminal case after 10 days of searching with no sign of the Portland second grader. But Gates was quick to assure that the transformation did not mean they were giving up.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/Police-Kyron-Horman-wont-become-cold-case-96312034.html

 

[pufnstuf]

Divers still in the water.

http://twitter.com/LauralKGW


PORTLAND -- On the 11th day of the search for Kyron Harmon, a missing 7-year-old Portland boy, investigators intensified their search in the area of Sauvie Island. From KGW's Sky 8 helicopter, searchers in wetsuits were seen moving through waist-high water while someone on shore provided directions.

A dive team searched swamps and ponds around the rural NW Portland area, and crews also searched around the Multnomah Channel. Investigators would not say what led them to this area, but it was the fourth consecutive days that crews scoured Sauvie Island.

Earlier Monday, the lead officer in the investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance vowed to stay on the case until it’s solved, despite scaling back search operations.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html

 

[emmcee]

To any locals: The Columbia River looks huge. Can you tell me if the water is moving very fast or not? If the body was put into the river, would it be likely to move downstream quite a ways?

Since there is a search going on in the river, there IS a reason for it. I suspect 'something' appeared, maybe a piece of clothing or something. JMO

 

[RubyRed]

Pensfan that was an interesting article.

 

[cluciano63]

If they are interviewing parents, etc again...they either do NOT have a POI or have one and are trying to get more evidence toward an arrest. I am thinking they really don't have a POI and if this is true, it is scarier than if they suspect someone close to Kryon, IMO, as I don't think the offender will be caught if not already on their radar. JMO

 

[Snail]

It is my belief that this was a Crime of Opportunity, meaning it could not have happened without all the unusual things that were oing on at school the day. Here is a list of the things I can think of that were likely unusual:

1. School open to parents without signing in

2. Students were broken into groups to tour the science fair with classmates, possibly a Parent Volunteer/staff member in charge of each group

3. Talent show

4. Here is another question I have been wondering about: Was Kyron usually a bus rider GOING to school? If so, another difference is on the day of disappearance he was taken to school (did not ride the bus in the AM as usual).

 

[Skully]

To any locals: The Columbia River looks huge. Can you tell me if the water is moving very fast or not? If the body was put into the river, would it be likely to move downstream quite a ways?

Since there is a search going on in the river, there IS a reason for it. I suspect 'something' appeared, maybe a piece of clothing or something. JMO

I sadly agree, they don't spend money and time on a whim in this kind of case.

 

[BeanE]

If you watch at the beginning, Terri reaches towards the bio-mom's hand and she moves away to push her hair behind her ear. I think it is interesting.

If you keep watching, you'll see that as soon as bio-mom pushes her hair aside, she looks down for Terri's hand, reaches for it, takes it, and holds it.

Bio-mom holds stepmom's hand. Very nice to see this affection and comfort.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Jane Velez-Mitchell will cover the Kyron case on HLN this hour 7:00PM (EDT).

 

[MCDRAW]

Just remember that we don't have all the facts. LE and the school know what happened.

Schools protect themselves. Just because they know doesn't mean anyone else will unless people talk. JMO

 

[PDXMom]

To any locals: The Columbia River looks huge. Can you tell me if the water is moving very fast or not? If the body was put into the river, would it be likely to move downstream quite a ways?

Since there is a search going on in the river, there IS a reason for it. I suspect 'something' appeared, maybe a piece of clothing or something. JMO

We go out to the river at Sauvie Island quite often for picnics and to pick blackberries. The shore has a gentle slope and there are often brambles along parts of it. But maybe 15-20 feet toward the middle of the river it's pretty swift. I don't let my kids go in where they can't stand on sand. It's likely even more swift right now, as we've had so much rain and there are high water watches for the Portland area.

 

[MCDRAW]

Headline News, they were talking about the case

ETA: I turned it on right as they were telling other parents in the area not to worry, police say it's an isolated case.
ETA: In other words they are saying nobody is stalking the school halls taking children.

Sometimes I think they say this so there will not be a panic.