OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[RickshawFan]

I am reading Shawna Cox's Conditions of Release and I found this condition rather strange.

"Find and maintain gainful full-time employment, approved schooling or a full-time combination of both, as directed and
approved by Pretrial Services"

I could understand this condition if the person was young, but she is 59. I want to know why employment/school is a condition. An "Idle hands are the devil's workshop" kind of reasoning?

What do you guys think, any insight on this? TIA

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/02/01/Coxorder.pdf

Seriously? What's wrong with a 59-year-old having to work? Some of us have to work 'til we're 80!

She is being given temporary freedom even though she is charged with a serious crime and might otherwise await trial in jail. There is a quid pro quo here: show us you're willing to go through the hoops and stay out of trouble. Otherwise, it's back to jail.

It is very typical for a court to tell a defendant they have to work if they want to be out and about. (C.f. the Ethan couch case). Consider that in order for regular folks to get federal and/or state benefits, there would be no benefits without these conditions being met (unless, for instance, they were disabled).

If she can't find anything she likes better (I mean, who wants to hire someone who threatens LE?), she'll have to get a job doing minimum-wage janitorial work at a hospital, for instance. Somewhere where she can't cause problems for her employer. Time for her to get real, like the rest of us poor schmoes have to.

She's going to be owing restitution, too. Better get a head start on paying your obligations.

And who knows, she might very well have to stay in Oregon to follow court orders. She got herself there and is charged with a crime there. She's under their jurisdiction. Why should it be anyone's problem that her residence is in Utah?

Finally, she'd better look at this as an opportunity. An opportunity to rack up commissary money before she goes to jail big-time.

 

[Fred Hall]

Both women in Finicum's truck have claimed that there was a single shot fired at them during the initial stop. Might there have been an accidental discharge? They may have been confused by flash-bangs later on, but on this point they are either telling the truth or consciously lying.

 

[RickshawFan]

Both women in Finicum's truck have claimed that there was a single shot fired at them during the initial stop. Might there have been an accidental discharge? They may have been confused by flash-bangs later on, but on this point they are either telling the truth or consciously lying.

None of these details matters, IMO. This was a group that had a history of threatening LE, had weapons, was escalating, and was clear they planned to use force. LE's admirable goal was to minimize fallout from their illegal activity. They could probably have killed all of those militia members on the grounds of self-protection during any aggressive incident.

 

[KaaBoom]

I read in one of the articles that was linked here that Sean Anderson is Lutheran, not LDS, but he's also been speaking about how God put them there and has some sort of purpose.

I'm pretty sure no organized religion says that armed standoffs in bird refuges are generally a good idea and I think it's more a feature of bad decision making than a particular religion.

No organized religion would ever advocate something like that. But unfortunately the followers of many religions do, and many of them do so in the name of their religion.

 

[KaaBoom]

Amanda Peacher ‏@amandapeacher
It's an 8 deg morning in Harney County. If the final 4 are really camping, brrr. #Oregonstandoff

Thats warm compared to the -18°F it was when they took over the place. If they can last a few more months, they won’t even need heat.

 

[Donjeta]

For anyone who might be interested in listening to the radio interview with David Fry last night, you can listen here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PLCafdBgpjc

Live from Burns Oregon - Calls with David fry defendyourbase

Its a little over 6 hours long. Thanks to octobermoon I and others here were alerted to it. I think I heard only the last couple of hours live.

Oooh he's a star... his thoughts are worth a 6 hr interview...

 

[Dr. Know?]

Now S. Cox is saying in this new video that she "thought" R. Payne was shot but apparently he was not...approx. 7 minute mark. Uploaded today. Just started listening to it.

[video=youtube;uDednOsEx7w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDednOsEx7w[/video]

 

[Donjeta]

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/02/02/oshaughnessyfeb2det.pdf

 

[bluesneakers]

It was a set up like that's a bad thing because how dare LE plan in advance how to arrest these lawbreakers. Having a plan in place to catch them is hardly the same as entrapment.

In one of her interviews she said it was LE's fault they ended up in the snowbank because of the roadblock and the officer Finicum nearly hit. They are very good at twisting facts.

I still don't understand how drawing the fire away from the truck was heroic. LE wasn't about to run out of ammo. They weren't going to forget there were others in the truck.

Is there anywhere to see the video she recorded?

 

[i.b.nora]

Now S. Cox is saying in this new video that she "thought" R. Payne was shot but apparently he was not...approx. 7 minute mark. Uploaded today. Just started listening to it.

[video=youtube;uDednOsEx7w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDednOsEx7w[/video]

This is great! I am only at about the 17 minute mark, but it is fascinating to me. The fact that she was videotaping should add another dimension to the whole story. I am glad she is doing these video interviews although, I don't think it is necessarily very wise.

 

[i.b.nora]

So, who is the woman asking questions at about 40 mark? She is full of it. She says she can see a shocked expression on LaVoy's face. How do people see these things? I have decades old 8mm movies that have better resolution than that aerial camera. Incidentally, she calls it a drone, but was it a drone or a helicopter?

 

[KaaBoom]

So, who is the woman asking questions at about 40 mark? She is full of it. She says she can see a shocked expression on LaVoy's face. How do people see these things? I have decades old 8mm movies that have better resolution than that aerial camera. Incidentally, she calls it a drone, but was it a drone or a helicopter?

I didn’t get that part either. It wasn’t a question, it was a long statement, with no question in it.

I believe it was an airplane, but I guess it could have been a drone.

 

[KaaBoom]

It was a set up like that's a bad thing because how dare LE plan in advance how to arrest these lawbreakers. Having a plan in place to catch them is hardly the same as entrapment.

In one of her interviews she said it was LE's fault they ended up in the snowbank because of the roadblock and the officer Finicum nearly hit. They are very good at twisting facts.

I still don't understand how drawing the fire away from the truck was heroic. LE wasn't about to run out of ammo. They weren't going to forget there were others in the truck.

Is there anywhere to see the video she recorded?

The video is in the possession of the FBI. It will be their decision, if they release it or not. I would guess they won’t, and will just keep it as evidence.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st...tells_youngest_occupier_proud_of_you_son.html

[David Fry]repeatedly spoke of miracles, saying they occurred when people put their lives on the line. That's exactly what he and the other occupiers are doing, he said.

He also conceded, at least twice, that they were breaking the law. "Sometimes it's right to break a law. This is the time to break a law," Fry said.

But why?

He said Banta and the Andersons were on "post duty" when the group received word that many of its leaders, including Ammon Bundy, had been arrested Jan. 26. Robert "LaVoy" Finicum was shot and killed during the confrontation.

Fry said that as other occupiers left the refuge headquarters, he was filming the events. Before long, only a few occupiers remained. "This is how the four came to be," he said.

So he knew it was time to leave but chose not to. The Andersons' excuse that they weren't aware of the offer to leave freely doesn't seem to apply to him.

"This was America's ideal protest in a time of need," Fry said, "and America hasn't really recognized that, and is still kind of sitting on their butts."

Oh no, silly America, too stupid to understand their own good. We are fighting for you all, and you NEED us to occupy this remote bird refuge at this time, but you can't see...

 

[i.b.nora]

The Latest: Jailed Bundy says 'land belongs to the people'
Associated Press
Feb. 2, 2016 3:15 PM EST

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5e32...test-hearing-set-man-arrested-oregon-standoff

“PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The Latest on an armed group that took over buildings at a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon (all times local):

12:15 p.m.

The jailed leader of an armed occupation of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon says "the land belongs to the people" and should be turned over to local authorities.

In a statement read Tuesday by his attorney, Mike Arnold, Ammon Bundy reiterated his calls for the four remaining occupiers at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon to leave. He said that would allow federal and state authorities to also depart.

Bundy says county authorities should then take over the site, something local officials have said is impractical.

Bundy's statement tracks with a letter his father, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, sent to local authorities on Monday saying federal and state police should be removed from the area and the refuge should be placed under local control.

Bundy says he has been in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day and hasn't spoken with his father.”​

 

[Donjeta]

"the land belongs to the people"

So who or what do they think the federal government represents if not the people? Vacuum cleaners?

 

[i.b.nora]

Conrad Wilson
Conrad Wilson – Verified account ‏@conradjwilson

Judge continues Pete Santilli's appealed detention hearing until Thursday #Oregonstandoff
12:01 PM - 2 Feb 2016

 

[i.b.nora]

One of the things I don't like about getting my news from Twitter is that some entries just don't make any sense.

Maxine Bernstein
Maxine Bernstein – Verified account ‏@maxoregonian

Judge Mosman gave Pete Santilli's lawyers 2 days to provided added context to what govt. called his 'incendiary statements' #oregonstandoff
11:58 AM - 2 Feb 2016​

 

[Fred Hall]

None of these details matters, IMO. This was a group that had a history of threatening LE, had weapons, was escalating, and was clear they planned to use force. LE's admirable goal was to minimize fallout from their illegal activity. They could probably have killed all of those militia members on the grounds of self-protection during any aggressive incident.

Ah, but these details do matter. If the women are found to be telling the truth, there will be enormous consequences both legally and in the court of public opinion.

 

[Donjeta]

Hearing set for Arizona man Jon Ritzheimer arrested in Oregon standoff
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ona-man-arrested-in-oregon-standoff/79696042/

Jon Eric Ritzheimer of Peoria, Arizona, has been jailed since the FBI arrested him Jan. 26 after he went to the Peoria Police Department and surrendered.

How nice of him.