OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[bluesneakers]

A very clear reason for the correct identity to be released is because the wrongly ID'd man has a family.

And neighbors and friends and co-workers and enemies...

 

[LaborDayRN]

I disagree. This guy is dead. Whatever notoriety he hoped to gain is pointless to him now. Maybe it's our sick obsession with fame and fortune - at any cost - that is skewing people's perception of reality.

But others wannabe killers, sitting at home see all the media attention, all the times this guys name is mentioned, and may want their "name to go down in history". They may think as this person did that "it's the only way I'll be famous". I think what Gitana is suggesting is to remove that option to FUTURE killers. We must stand together and not allow these monsters to get the fame they so desire.

You're correct. Our country has a sick obsession with being famous at any cost. Look at the Duggars, Honey BooBoo, the Kardashians! As a society, we should hope to have our children grow to be compassionate, helpful, educated, contributing members of society. I think the problems we face are multifaceted. The availability of high powered weapons, violent media that some of our youth spend hours and hours a day engulfed in, very limited access to quality mental health care......... We have to start somewhere.

 

[kalekona]

Yes, this is how I'm thinking too. I want to know everything and I want us to be free to find and learn whatever we can, but I don't like how killers can be turned into anti-heroes and become household names. Is there a line? I think it's possible to be curious and want more knowledge without creating the over-the-top characters we end up with. But I'm not sure how we go about it.

Since Anderson Cooper and others limited the time a killers name was used I honestly don't remember their names- Show the victims more and the shooter less, that would be a good place to start I think.

 

[Truthy]

I have to disagree about the Europe comment.Western europeans are much more open and educational about sex than the US.They do not make a big deal about sex as being something negative.I am always suprised at what I see over there.

Oh yes, regarding sex they are much more liberal! It is graphic violence that they restrict much more than we do here. Kids do not have access to that crap like they do here.
Was not speaking to their views about sex at all.

 

[ElleElle]

I disagree. This guy is dead. Whatever notoriety he hoped to gain is pointless to him now. Maybe it's our sick obsession with fame and fortune - at any cost - that is skewing people's perception of reality.

I think it more of an obsession why these acts are committed, and and of course a history of the shooter, so we can discuss.

 

[FindHG]

"Mintz spent most of Thursday in surgery after receiving seven gunshots during the attack. Family members said Mintz was able to talk to loved ones before going into surgery. He told them that he heard gunshots in another classroom and tried to keep the gunman from entering his classroom."


[...]

"Family members said both of Mintz’s legs are broken and he will have to relearn to walk, but he is now recovering and expected to survive. No vital organs were hit."


Randleman victim in Oregon community college shooting tried to stop gunman, family says
FOX8 NC



How you can help: A community responds
KGW8

 

[bessie]

THANK YOU. I thought I just jumped the train to crazytown. I was about to back slowly out of this thread not making any sudden movements because I totally named him and posted links to some stuff I thought was very creepy.

And did anyone stop you? Were those posts remove? No. So please don't allow anyone to confuse the issue for you. No one has taken the "sleuth" out of Websleuths.

 

[gitana1]

A lot of these guys, though, are not mentally ill in the same way as those who need traditional mental health care. Mostly they're misanthropic, angry, loners - and for every one that goes on a shooting spree there are probably thousands who only ever dream about it. They can't be forced into mental health treatment, and they're very unlikely to accept treatment if it's offered since they see the problem in society, not themselves. I think more can be done from a prevention and early intervention angle, and addressing the causes, but I'm not so sure that is the same thing as fixing a failing mental health system. Other countries also have inadequate mental health care, and angry awkward young men, but it doesn't escalate into one mass shooting after another. For me, this is closer to the debate about young men becoming radicalised to violence (e.g. in Australia and the UK) than it is about mental health. There are definitely overlaps, but it's not the same thing.

BBM. Interesting parallel.

"We are UCC" said at vigil

"We are family"

Candles raised one last time

http://archive.kgw.com/legacy/iframes/breaking-video.html

Oh wow. Just brings me to tears. Horrible.

I disagree. This guy is dead. Whatever notoriety he hoped to gain is pointless to him now. Maybe it's our sick obsession with fame and fortune - at any cost - that is skewing people's perception of reality.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not clear. The incentive for this guy was the knowledge that he would be known across the country. That was his incentive. It is irrelevant that he is not here to enjoy that notoriety. 'He knew it would be there. More important, the incentive for every other sicko who is watching the news and printing out photos and articles about the murders is being developed every time his name is mentioned and every time his photo is shown.

I don't think I'm crazy here or out of left field. Experts and victims seem to agree with me:


1. No Name. No Photo. No Notoriety.

IT’S A MATTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY

The quest for notoriety and infamy is a well known motivating factor in mass killings and violent copycat crimes. In an effort to reduce future tragedies, we CHALLENGE THE MEDIA – calling for RESPONSIBLE MEDIA COVERAGE FOR THE SAKE OF PUBLIC SAFETY when reporting on individuals who commit or attempt acts of rampage mass violence thereby depriving violent like minded individuals the media celebrity and media spotlight they so crave.

http://nonotoriety.com/


2.What Mass Killers Want—And How to Stop Them
Rampage shooters crave the spotlight, and we should do everything possible to deprive them of it.

Underlying this grim national ritual, and the pronouncements from all quarters that mass shootings are "senseless," is the disturbing feeling that these acts are beyond our understanding.
So we focus our efforts on thwarting future mass shooters—catching them through the mental health system, or making it harder for them to get guns, or making it easier for others with guns to stop them.
But the criminologists and psychologists who study mass killings aren't so baffled.
He notes that rampage shootings tend to follow a definite pattern, what he called a "program for murder and suicide." The shooter, almost always a young man, enters an area filled with many people. He is heavily armed. He may begin by targeting a few specific victims, but he soon moves on to "indiscriminate killings where just killing people is the prime aim." He typically has no plan for escape and kills himself or is killed by police. Among the more pervasive myths about massacre killers is that they simply snap. In fact, Dr. Mullen and others have found that rampage shooters usually plan their actions meticulously, even ritualistically, for months in advance. Like serial killers, massacre killers usually don't have impulsive personalities; they tend to be obsessive and highly organized. Survivors typically report that the shooters appear to be not enraged but cold and calculating.
Instead, massacre killers are typically marked by what are considered personality disorders: grandiosity, resentment, self-righteousness, a sense of entitlement. They become, says Dr. Knoll, " 'collectors of injustice' who nurture their wounded narcissism." To preserve their egos, they exaggerate past humiliations and externalize their anger, blaming others for their frustrations. They develop violent fantasies of heroic revenge against an uncaring world.
What these findings suggest is that mass shootings are a kind of theater. Their purpose is essentially terrorism—minus, in most cases, a political agenda.

How might journalists and police change their practices to discourage mass shootings? First, they need to do more to deprive the killer of an audience:

Never publish a shooter's propaganda. Aside from the act itself, there is no greater aim for the mass killer than to see his own grievances broadcast far and wide. Many shooters directly cite the words of prior killers as inspiration. In 2007, the forensic psychiatrist Michael Welner told "Good Morning America" that the Virginia Tech shooter's self-photos and videotaped ramblings were a "PR tape" that was a "social catastrophe" for NBC News to have aired.

Hide their names and faces. With the possible exception of an at-large shooter, concealing their identities will remove much of the motivation for infamy.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181702252120052
(Waaay more at link. Incredibly in depth article that basically explains everything some are claiming we can only learn through personal knowledge of these murderers names.)


3. The Media’s Complicity in Granting Fame to Mass Killers

This is the age of fame for fame’s sake, the strange loop of becoming famous for becoming famous, where Instagram, Snapchat and YouTube create instant celebrities whose only achievement is becoming an Internet celebrity.
An entire generation is growing up craving shortcuts to the public spotlight, hoping for that one offbeat “viral” video that can catapult them from obscurity to national recognition.
The desire for fame is the need to prove we existed, to cheat the eternity of death, to show we mattered, to leave a mark in the minds of others in the hope that they will remember us. It is the deepest of all needs, the existential urge to mean something, to be somebody.
For a small segment of individuals, who are either evil, barbarically murderous, mentally ill, easily manipulable by the language of hate, or some combination thereof, a mass killing is the surest and quickest path to “being somebody.” It is no coincidence that of the 12 deadliest shootings in the United States, six have happened from 2007 onward. The advent of social media and the rise of instant celebrities creates the unrealistic belief that fame requires no training, no hard work, no accomplishment. Anyone can be famous for any reason – or for no reason at all.

http://peterdaou.com/2015/06/time-for-the-media-to-censor-the-names-of-fame-seeking-mass-killers/
(More at link)


4. A psychiatrist's insightful perspective on news coverage's perpetuation of mass shootings in schools:

[video=youtube;PezlFNTGWv4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4[/video]


5. Academic journal article in the Journal of Mass Media Ethics, 9:1 [Winter 1993-94]:
Ethical Problems of Mass Murder Coverage In The Mass Media

ABSTRACT: Analyzes news coverage of mass murders in Time and Newsweek for the period 1984-91 for evidence of disproportionate, perhaps politically motivated coverage of certain categories of mass murder. Discusses ethical problems related to news and entertainment attention to mass murder, and suggests methods of enhancing the public's understanding of the nature of murder.[1]How important was the news coverage of Purdy's crime in influencing Wesbecker's actions, above and beyond identifying the weapon of choice for such an act of savagery? Police now believe Wesbecker had begun plotting the suicide rampage for at least seven months. Searching Wesbecker's house, police found a copy of a Feb. 6 Time magazine detailing mass murders in California, Oklahoma, Texas and elsewhere.

http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/JMME2.htm


6. Let's stop giving murderers the publicity they'd kill for

Do we actually need to know or learn much more about "the mind of a killer" or what happened in his early life?
I think not. I agree with the relative of one of the people killed in the Columbine shootings who said that too much attention is given to the killers and not enough to the people who are killed.
The Virginia Tech loon who sent photographs and videotapes of himself to NBC clearly planned to blast his way into fame. He wanted to be remembered and thought all of this out before cutting himself down at the end of his meaningless hill of murders. Actually, for him, the killings had a big meaning: making a very sick man part of the celebrity culture in which we find ourselves trapped. If you don't have talent, well, you can kill. That will bring the cameras and the discussion.
Last week, a gunman killed eight people before committing suicide in an Omaha shopping mall. "Now I will be famous," the killer wrote in a suicide note, his landlady told CNN.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/stop-giving-murderers-publicity-kill-article-1.272193



In any event, I feel very certain about the ramifications of publicizing identifying and other info about these lunatics and I just feel it is voyeuristic and seriously unethical.

There is one definitive way we can reduce these killings that is simple and easy to do. I hope everyone looks into their hearts and supports a push for the media to stop giving these creeps what they crave. And stop fueling the next one.

I won't remember his name. I won't write it or read it. I'm heart sick about this, yet another senseless slaughter. So sad. And so sad that people think their curiosity is more important than the lives of others.

 

[ElleElle]

Oh yes, regarding sex they are much more liberal! It is graphic violence that they restrict much more than we do here. Kids do not have access to that crap like they do here.
Was not speaking to their views about sex at all.

Sex equates to power, and perhaps the shooter was rejected? Isolation and rejection are very well hidden in some people, and could have been bullied. How old is he? 20?

 

[Foxfire]

Well there would be no sleuthing without knowing an identity.
We don't need to splash the name and face all over every 5 minutes but I do believe we need to know the name.

We are living in the communication era... The most valuable investigative resource that law enforcement possesses is an aware American public.. It is critical that this psychopath's identity, photos, vehicle description, criminal history, known residences, as well as any other pertinent info be released to the public via ms/social media to insure that justice is served and the truth revealed.
Does he presently have associates, or did he have them in the past. Does he have other unknown victims? Why did he move from CA to Oregon?
'Silence by LE via MS/Social Media is the predators most lethal weapon'...

 

[KaaBoom]

Onion:
'No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

I love the way they just repeat the same story for each mass-killing incident. That's what I think President Obama should do. He should just pre-record a statement, for these incidents. Then they can replay it, for each mass-killing. That way he doesn't have to go through the trouble of recording a new speech every two weeks. Maybe they could just do a quick voice over with the name of the next city.

 

[Truthy]

No one has taken the "sleuth" out of Websleuths.

And that's the truth, Ruth! :loveyou:

 

[Truthy]

Sex equates to power, and perhaps the shooter was rejected? Isolation and rejection are very well hidden in some people, and could have been bullied. How old is he? 20?

He was 26.

I'm just saying that kids growing up in the USA today get exposed to an incredible amount of (ever more realistic) gore and violence. Violence that is often glorified. And much of that would be restricted - for adults only- in Europe. If we had the same rules here I don't think kids would be missing much, and I think a lot more of it would be thoughtful entertainment- unlike those comic gore fests you see flipping the cable channels all the time.

 

[SophieRose]

I looked up California birth records and they show he was born in Los Angeles County.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/umpqua-community-college-shooting-chris-harper-mercer/

Mercer's stepsister told the station he was born in England and traveled to the United States as a young boy. She said Mercer's father, who lives in Tarzana, married her mom and that the last time she spoke with Mercer was a year ago.

In Torrance, neighbors told CBS Los Angeles that Mercer lived there a few years ago and kept mostly to himself.

 

[gitana1]

I have to disagree about the Europe comment.Western europeans are much more open and educational about sex than the US.They do not make a big deal about sex as being something negative.I am always suprised at what I see over there.

In my experience (both parents immigrated from Europe and most of my family is still there), sex is not censored from kids but violence is. I thought that's what the poster meant? I think violence is destructive to developing minds. I don't think sex is as much unless it is combined with violence or degradation (or unless it is being actually done to kids by an adult or older person).

 

[Dogface]

This may not be a popular opinion but I think a reason we see this continue to happen is because of sites like 4chan. I think, before the Internet, kids who were maybe on the outside of things had a lot of these feelings, but didn't get validation of it from a huge group of people who tell them they would be heroes for slaughtering people. Typically, they would get out of highschool and continue on with their lives and things got better. Now, they separate from reality into this fantasyland and devolve into these monsters.

I agree that the shooter should never be more important than the victims. Mass killings happened before, and killers were named throughout history, so I don't think that is the sole problem. But I don't like seeing the killer over and over again with so little focus on the victims. Parents, teachers and friends need to know what the signs are, they need to see that it could be their kid, they need to know about sites like 4chan. Knowledge is power, we need to know about the killer, but we need to know about the victims too.

 

[BlueShoe]

Yes, this is how I'm thinking too. I want to know everything and I want us to be free to find and learn whatever we can, but I don't like how killers can be turned into anti-heroes and become household names. Is there a line? I think it's possible to be curious and want more knowledge without creating the over-the-top characters we end up with. But I'm not sure how we go about it.

I agree. We don't need to glorify these terrible people. Still, something seems just as wrong with a headline reading "Somebody just killed 10 people. Here are the 10 victims." That sound like it was simply an act of God like a hurricane. Or just anyone off the street. We need to know and identify the killer to shock us and to eventually get us off our butts and try to do something. The evil still needs to be named. That's my opinion.

 

[Isabelle]

Is it correct that the shooter was living with his mother in Winchester?

 

[FindHG]

The errr

"entered an Introduction to Expository Writing class in Snyder Hall around 10:30 a.m. Thursday. He carried a "long gun," according to radio calls between police and emergency dispatchers, and up to three handguns.

[...]

Still, in perhaps 10 minutes of violence, the gunman killed at least nine people and injured at least seven others. Paramedics took victims to Mercy Medical Center in Roseburg. Three critically injured patients were later airlifted elsewhere. Victims had been shot in the chest, back, legs and hands, hospital officials said.

[...]

The killer shot a teacher in the head, one witness told the Roseburg News Review newspaper, and ordered students to the floor. He demanded they tell him their religious affiliation, the witness said, but did not wait for answers before firing again."


Horror in Roseburg: 10 minutes, 10 deaths in Oregon's worst shooting
By Anna Griffin, The Oregonian/OregonLiv
Oct 1 15, 9:02 pm

link added by me

 

[ElleElle]

Definitely sounds like a copycat he wrote about the Virginia reporter shootings.