OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[Sonya610]

anyone know , what were the doing hunting deers, polar bears (!) or aiming at a bullseye?

does anyone know how often they out to the old corral to play around with bullets

The weapons mentioned, handguns, AR, AK, Tec-9 are not designed for hunting, they are self-defense weapons.

The rifles wouldn't be good for hunting deer or larger game because they aren't chambered for it, meaning the rounds would not be big enough to take down deer or larger game in a quick/efficient manner. Those rifles would be illegal for deer hunting in many states.

That is why many gun owners have multiple weapons, each serves a different purpose. A light weight smaller capacity handgun for concealed carry, a larger higher capacity handgun for home defense, a rifle/shotgun for "safe" room defense or outdoors.

Plus when it comes to firearms size matters, not just the size of the rounds but the weapon itself. If riots broke out and your friend asked you to help guard their store you wouldn't want to show up with a cute pink .25 caliber handgun.

A little handgun is only good for shooting targets a few feet away plus it usually takes multiple shots. A guy with a much larger pistol has a much longer range. A guy with a rifle could shoot you from 200 yards away; your little handgun would be useless against him.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oct 3 2015, 8:20 pm ET

16-Year-Old Oregon Shooting Victim Faces 'Long Road' to Recovery: Family

by Elisha Fieldstadt

An injured teenage victim of the deadly shooting at an Oregon college is expected to recover from a bullet that ended up lodged in her kidney, but she faces "a long road," her family said Saturday.

At 16 years old, Cheyeanne Fitzgerald, is the youngest victim of Thursday's shooting at Umpqua Community College, her mother Bonnie Schaan, told reporters outside of the hospital where Fitzgerald is recovering after having a kidney removed.

Nine people were killed and nine others, including Fitzgerald, were injured when 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer opened fire in a classroom at the school. Authorities said Saturday that Mercer killed himself during an exchange of gunfire with officers who responded to the scene.

"We're blessed beyond belief that Cheyeanne is here today," said her aunt, Colleen Fitzgerald...

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...oting-victim-faces-long-road-recovery-n438146

 

[Foxfire]

You are cherry picking. To get away from high crime to a place where she can open carry.

KaaBoom, from the many passionate posts on this thread. I've observed that many, if not most folk's opinions concerning guns/gun laws etc., are based on their cultures, life experiences, political leanings, geographical locations; urban/rural, etc. My interpretation, or cherry picking, as you refer to it is simply my opinion..

I am from Kennesaw, GA where owning a gun is the Law. Kennesaw, a suburb of Atlanta has become a magnet for families and businesses wanting a safe environment to live and prosper..
Kennesaw, Georgia, has the most liberal gun laws in the United States, in a state with liberal gun laws.

Kennesaw, GA; Gun Ownership - It's The Law In Kennesaw -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/04/18/us-usa-crime-shooting-town-idUSN1719257620070418

KENNESAW, Ga - Several Kennesaw officials attribute a drop in crime in the city over the past two decades to a law that requires residents to own a handgun... The town is noted for its unusual gun legislation in response to Morton Grove, Illinois' law mandating gun prohibition in 1982.

 

[La Louve]

KATU (local ABC affiliate ) reporting on one of the injured, Anna Boylan. Bullet entered her back just below a cross tattoo that she was hoping her hair prevented the shooter from seeing. the bullet slid down her spinal column, missing vital organs. She was able to go for a brief walk outside yesterday.

 

[Truthy]

Yes, even with a specific believable threats of harm adults will be released after three days if they claim they now feel differently. And with minors it would depend on how deep the pockets of parents or insurers are (more so than behavioral history). Facilities will check on what insurance will pay for, and "coincidentally" decide that is how long the patient should stay.
The other thing is, getting them committed is likely to cause more problems at home after those three days are up. And three days zoned out on meds in a strange place rarely help, so many families will just endure the crises, and try to wait it out.

 

[Truthy]

Part of the problem is that no parent believes it will come to this. They can be completely blind to their own kids behavior and develop a kind of Stockholm syndrome where they work to placate the child with mental illness because there seems to be no other way to cope. Apparently this kid had a whole lot of melt downs and screaming tantrums and was otherwise non-communicative to many- but loved talking about guns. The NY times reported he could and would talk for hours about guns.

That makes me wonder- who was the original gun enthusiast in the family? It's possible she was happy he had ANY hobby or interest that brought him out of his shell and got them both out of the house. She may have been desperate for anything that could create a bond between the two of them, and gotten into it herself for that reason. He may have also influenced her thinking about moving to a less populous area with less "crime" (where open carry is more acceptable than cities in CA) - that's a pretty popular idea with those who lean toward the white supremacist / super conservative RW ideologies.

She may have, like many parents of the mentally ill, been tailoring her lifestyle around that child.

I agree it was irresponsible for his Mom to allow all those guns to be so accessible, and to encourage the hobby.
When I listen to gun enthusiasts, I never hear how they would be willing to curtail their gun use or alter their behavior in such a situation though. Have I ever heard anyone say they would get rid of their guns over something like this?
Sadly, no.

 

[Frigga]

Part of the problem is that no parent believes it will come to this. They can be completely blind to their own kids behavior and develop a kind of Stockholm syndrome where they work to placate the child with mental illness because there seems to be no other way to cope. Apparently this kid had a whole lot of melt downs and screaming tantrums and was otherwise non-communicative to many- but loved talking about guns. The NY times reported he could and would talk for hours about guns.

That makes me wonder- who was the original gun enthusiast in the family? It's possible she was happy he had ANY hobby or interest that brought him out of his shell and got them both out of the house. She may have been desperate for anything that could create a bond between the two of them, and gotten into it herself for that reason. He may have also influenced her thinking about moving to a less populous area with less "crime" (where open carry is more acceptable than cities in CA) - that's a pretty popular idea with those who lean toward the white supremacist / super conservative RW ideologies.

She may have, like many parents of the mentally ill, been tailoring her lifestyle around that child.

I agree it was irresponsible for his Mom to allow all those guns to be so accessible, and to encourage the hobby.
When I listen to gun enthusiasts, I never hear how they would be willing to curtail their gun use or alter their behavior in such a situation though. Have I ever heard anyone say they would get rid of their guns over something like this?
Sadly, no.

Your post describes the Lanza mother-son duo almost perfectly.

Maybe that should have been a clue to Mercer's mother?

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't understand why his mother didn't get him involved in martial arts rather than guns, but I guess guns was her interest.

Probably because she was involved in guns herself, not in martial arts.

 

[Plumeria5]

Just watched a young woman interviewed who was shot in the hand. Said he shot a woman in a wheelchair as she tried to crawl back up into her chair after being ordered to the floor. And she had a dog with her? This just gets sadder and sadder. Did the dog survive? Is this new information?

This was just on CNN. The woman was getting back into her chair on his orders to get back up. I just wanted to clarify she was meeting all of his demands by getting back up.

 

[human]

Just watched a young woman interviewed who was shot in the hand. Said he shot a woman in a wheelchair as she tried to crawl back up into her chair after being ordered to the floor. And she had a dog with her? This just gets sadder and sadder. Did the dog survive? Is this new information?

Wow. That is really the bottom of the rung of humanity isn't it?

TOS TOS TOS.

 

[human]

I got a meme on my FB that says we should ask the rest of the world how they got rid of the mental illness in their countries as these shootings are so rare in the rest of the world.

 

[leah]

Just watched a young woman interviewed who was shot in the hand. Said he shot a woman in a wheelchair as she tried to crawl back up into her chair after being ordered to the floor. And she had a dog with her? This just gets sadder and sadder. Did the dog survive? Is this new information?

This was just on CNN. The woman was getting back into her chair on his orders to get back up. I just wanted to clarify she was meeting all of his demands by getting back up.

I just saw that also, they didn't mention about the dog being shot or not. I guess he didn't just ask if you were a Christian, but asked if you were a Catholic. We have seen pictures of his father, and the father has spoken, find it odd that there isn't a picture of the mother floating around.

 

[ElleElle]

I am speculating, but, I wonder if he was medicated. I also wonder his mother being a nurse would control his meds?

* I do hear about Lithium, but not sure of the whole background.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Well, there is the cause. Another gun nut mother raising a gun nut son. And everyone is all shocked when the kid goes and shoots up his school. Who could have foreseen that. How can this keep happening in America? It's simple. Americans are training their kids to be homicidal maniacs. The only thing that will stop this type of thing is to get rid of the gun culture. Better mental health will not stop it. More security in schools will not stop it. The only thing that will stop it is to get rid of the guns. Stop turning kids..

bbm

Yes, yes, and yes.

No, No, & No...

<BBM for Focus>

Gunman killed at Sullivan Central - Blountville, Tenn. 2010
http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/article_35434f30-00d3-522f-98f1-58f372591713.html

Instead, Melanie Riden, principal of Sullivan Central, came striding through the locked doors.
&#8220;He pulled out his gun and started pointing it at people,&#8221; Thacker said.
Cowan trained a .380-caliber semi-automatic pistol at Riden&#8217;s face, said Sullivan County Sheriff Wayne Anderson. Carolyn Gudger, the school resource officer, drew her gun, then shielded the principal&#8217;s body with her own.
<snipped - read more>

 

[Truthy]

If you could somehow, magically, remove every gun from the U.S. (which you can't), evil, insane and disturbed people would still commit evil, violent acts.

Sure, but with much less frequency. And that matters. Sensible regulation IS doable, and of course would take time.
But there's little money to be made from preventing murder.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Well, there is the cause. Another gun nut mother raising a gun nut son. And everyone is all shocked when the kid goes and shoots up his school. Who could have foreseen that. How can this keep happening in America? It's simple. Americans are training their kids to be homicidal maniacs. The only thing that will stop this type of thing is to get rid of the gun culture. Better mental health will not stop it. More security in schools will not stop it. The only thing that will stop it is to get rid of the guns. Stop turning kids..

bbm

Yes, yes, and yes.

No, No, & No...

<BBM for Focus>

Gunman killed at Sullivan Central - Blountville, Tenn. 2010
http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/article_35434f30-00d3-522f-98f1-58f372591713.html

Instead, Melanie Riden, principal of Sullivan Central, came striding through the locked doors.
&#8220;He pulled out his gun and started pointing it at people,&#8221; Thacker said.
Cowan trained a .380-caliber semi-automatic pistol at Riden&#8217;s face, said Sullivan County Sheriff Wayne Anderson. Carolyn Gudger, the school resource officer, drew her gun, then shielded the principal&#8217;s body with her own.
<snipped - read more>

 

[Lilibet]

The shooter's father speaks about guns. He has never held one. I'm not posting this to start more gun-control debate (which we have repeatedly been told not to do), but to give information on the father's opinion. Agree or disagree, he certainly has standing to speak about this subject...more so than anyone on this thread IMO. My heart goes out to him.

His condemnation of guns grew stronger as the interview went on, and he closed his remarks on the subject with a call for change.
"It has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, what right do you have to take people's lives? That's what guns are, the killers. Simple as that. Simple as that. It's black and white. What do you want a gun for?"

ETA: I can't seem to get the link to stick after multiple tries. Go to CNN.

 

[Truthy]

Your post describes the Lanza mother-son duo almost perfectly.

Maybe that should have been a clue to Mercer's mother?

I agree, but I think it is impossible for most parents to see their own kids that clearly- especially if they have spent years trying "to protect" the kid.
I have a young relative with severe developmental issues, very sad, obsessive thoughts and deceptive behavior, extreme tantrums, autistic behavior patterns, no friends and put together- it scares the crap out of me. When I showed some child development specialists his very unusual handwriting and described his behavior- both indicated these were signs of some serious illness, likely schizophrenia. (which has run heavily in my family)

His parents never acknowledge anything is wrong (although you can see they are very overprotective), and get defensive and pissed off when you ask. His school is passing him along like nothing is happening.

The kindest thing I can say is, they prefer to live in denial. But I can help thinking they hurt this kid by ignoring it all these years, but his Mom will never admit he is less than perfect. Somehow she doesn't want to acknowledge his misery?

All it takes is one person in denial to derail an entire life.


I should clarify- I have seen him completely fake tantrums, steal, lie and show no empathy or care for anyone at all- unless he temporarily fakes it to get what he wants. I have seen him "crying" and heaving heavily to fake that he is upset, only to notice he's actually watching the TV with the other side of his face while doing it. When I said I knew he was faking, he stopped and was completely calm. Scary.

 

[bessie]

New thread coming. I'll be back shortly with the link. Then we can get back on track.

Once again you guys have veered off the rails. Obviously, it would be foolish, if not impossible, to attempt to omit the subject entirely in a discussion of the Umpqua tragedy. I've tried to be flexible, and give you some leeway, but not so much as to allow for a general discussion of "guns". So before you move over to the next thread, I'm going to very politely ask you to knock it off.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at Thread #2.

This thread is now closed.