OR - Portland far-right rally, counter-protest lead to some arrests, injuries, 05 Aug. 2018

[glamourkitty1922]

But, were they wearing Pinochet shirts? Both sides are violent men. Blaming one side or the other is disingenuous. It is a symptom of the great divide in the US.

Meh, it's freedom of expression. Just like the idiots who have profanity on their shirts. I care more about actions. I remember a video where Antifa members attacked some people for having a prayer rally. I just wish that everyone would just keep their hands to themselves. No violence. So, I really really don't support any protesters who indulge in violence.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Blaming both sides makes the Nazis not seem so bad.

Nazis want white supremacy, genocide, isolationism, etc.

antifa wants to stop Nazis.

Simple.

Who are white nationalists and what do they want?
Who are white nationalists and what do they want? - CNN

Antifa believes anyone who doesn't follow their orders are "Nazis". They resort to violence for really no reason at all. Antifa is truly a fascist organization. Civilized people should hold them in contempt just as they do other fascist organizations.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Antifa do not march with torches crying out "Jews will not replace us" and "Blood and Soil", and wear Nazi emblems.

No, they beat people with bats for praying in public and bash people on the head with bike locks. You can't respond to words with violence, it's uncivilized.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Antifa are the Nazis.

That's what it appears like. They physically attack people for their beliefs, they truly hate Christianity, and probably every other religion. I'm not a religious person, but I find Antifa bigotry to be Nazi like.

 

[bluesneakers]

Antifa do not march with torches crying out "Jews will not replace us" and "Blood and Soil", and wear Nazi emblems.

And they are proud of themselves. It makes me sick and angry. The Nazis lost and the Confederates lost, but they are still fighting, marching, making threats, killing and preaching. Give it up losers. Hate will be replaced.

 

[whatsnext]

Antifa exists here to fight Nazis, neoNazis, white supremacists, the KKK.

People sometimes call antifa “the real Nazis” to make them seem the same, or to confuse the issue, as if hey, maybe the racists aren’t so bad and we should listen to them too. But only the white supremacists are the Nazis. They use their symbols and language, they refer to themselves as Nazis or neoNazis. They share their beliefs. It can’t be much simpler than that.

Antifa wants to fight (literally fight, whatever it takes) Nazis.

I don’t understand how people think being a Nazi is a matter of opinion.

You can be be opposed to both antifa AND the white supremacists/Nazis. But they are not the same.

Thank you then it's just like where I live. Was REALLY confused about some posts here...

 

[glamourkitty1922]

And they are proud of themselves. It makes me sick and angry. The Nazis lost and the Confederates lost, but they are still fighting, marching, making threats, killing and preaching. Give it up losers. Hate will be replaced.

They're all fascists, the KKK, Antifa, etc etc. However, I doubt hate will ever be replaced. It's the human condition. Humans are territorial, like all primates. Part of the problem is people supporting one facist over other facists. Add to that the belief that if someone doesn't believe exactly the same, some people believe them Nazis. There is no tolerance in America, no support for diversity. This belief that you're either with me or you're a Nazi is irrational and typical of fascism.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Thank you then it's just like where I live. Was REALLY confused about some posts here...

Antifa exists here to fight Nazis, neoNazis, white supremacists, the KKK.

People sometimes call antifa “the real Nazis” to make them seem the same, or to confuse the issue, as if hey, maybe the racists aren’t so bad and we should listen to them too. But only the white supremacists are the Nazis. They use their symbols and language, they refer to themselves as Nazis or neoNazis. They share their beliefs. It can’t be much simpler than that.

Antifa wants to fight (literally fight, whatever it takes) Nazis.

I don’t understand how people think being a Nazi is a matter of opinion.

You can be be opposed to both antifa AND the white supremacists/Nazis. But they are not the same.

Antifa IS a facist Nazi type group. They are EXACTLY the same.

 

[Gardenista]

They're all fascists, the KKK, Antifa, etc etc. However, I doubt hate will ever be replaced. It's the human condition. Humans are territorial, like all primates. Part of the problem is people supporting one facist over other facists. Add to that the belief that if someone doesn't believe exactly the same, some people believe them Nazis. There is no tolerance in America, no support for diversity. This belief that you're either with me or you're a Nazi is irrational and typical of fascism.

I'm just so glad for SM because it exposes all of this. In the past, it would have just been declared as fact by MSM. There are still those who take it as factual, but they are becoming fewer and fewer.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I'm just so glad for SM because it exposes all of this. In the past, it would have just been declared as fact by MSM. There are still those who take it as factual, but they are becoming fewer and fewer.

Media is highly distrusted, not only in America but worldwide. Journalism died some time ago and now there is only agenda.

 

[flourish]

What is antifa and what does the movement want?


"Antifa — short for "anti-fascist" — is the name for loosely affiliated, left-leaning anti-racist groups that monitor and track the activities of local neo-Nazis. The movement has no unified structure or national leadership but has emerged in the form of local bodies nationwide, particularly on the West Coast."

What is antifa and what does the movement want?

 

[Amonet]

At least here in Germany Antifa people passionately fight the Nazis, am confused now ETA anti fa(scistic) action

I am in the UK. I have vague recollections of neo-nazis here in the 70s behaving like terrorists throwing bricks through windows of houses where non-white people lived, beating up non-white people, wearing our flag as clothing. I have no desire to go back to those days.

Last night, for the first time, I watched some video of Charlottesville. That wasn't imho 'free speech' that was bullying, very much along the lines of the neo-nazis in 70s Britain.

For those who might be confused, the neo-nazis are the ones who carry swastikas and praise people like Hitler, who agree with nazi policies of 'white supremacy' and being hateful and even violent against people who are not white-skinned. Or even white-skinned enough, because now I'm seeing caucasians from places like Spain or Greece described (by the neo-nazis) as not being white.

What's different in this era to the bad old days in the 70s? The way the neo-nazi groups are making much better use of marketing techniques to confuse people. They're using 'nice' names for their groups. They're not nazis, they're the 'alt-right', they're 'Britain First', they're 'patriots', they're 'Christians'. Their marketing material suggests that they don't hate non-white people, they just want a white homeland for themselves. The groups are more likely to have nicely-spoken leaders who are fluent in doublespeak. But when the neo-nazis who follow these leaders are talking you find out what the real beliefs are, and they are clearly full of Hate First. Hate for people who aren't white enough, people who don't follow Christianity, people who aren't straight, people who are Jewish.

And now the modern neo-nazis are against people who aren't racist! If you're not racist then you're "anti-white" in their doublespeak, you're pro "white genocide"--though where that's happened other than somewhere like during the Holocaust where it was whites killing whites I have no idea.

Have these modern groups really managed to twist things so that the people protesting against nazi beliefs are the nazis? That people protesting against bullies are the bullies? Apparently they have, and I think this might be the scariest aspect of it yet.

If the neo-nazis, by whichever name they choose to call themselves, wish to go back to their 4-chan and their neo-nazi forums where they talk about the Bell Curve and Jews running the world, then they can have their free speech, even if it is hate speech. But when speech is used to bully and intimidate in the streets, when it's used to lie, then it's not free speech, it's hate speech.

 

[flourish]

"Ku Klux Klan, either of two distinct U.S. hate organizations that have employed terror in pursuit of their white supremacist agenda. One group was founded immediately after the Civil War and lasted until the 1870s; the other began in 1915 and has continued to the present."

Ku Klux Klan | Definition & History

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I am in the UK. I have vague recollections of neo-nazis here in the 70s behaving like terrorists throwing bricks through windows of houses where non-white people lived, beating up non-white people, wearing our flag as clothing. I have no desire to go back to those days.

Last night, for the first time, I watched some video of Charlottesville. That wasn't imho 'free speech' that was bullying, very much along the lines of the neo-nazis in 70s Britain.

For those who might be confused, the neo-nazis are the ones who carry swastikas and praise people like Hitler, who agree with nazi policies of 'white supremacy' and being hateful and even violent against people who are not white-skinned. Or even white-skinned enough, because now I'm seeing caucasians from places like Spain or Greece described (by the neo-nazis) as not being white.

What's different in this era to the bad old days in the 70s? The way the neo-nazi groups are making much better use of marketing techniques to confuse people. They're using 'nice' names for their groups. They're not nazis, they're the 'alt-right', they're 'Britain First', they're 'patriots', they're 'Christians'. Their marketing material suggests that they don't hate non-white people, they just want a white homeland for themselves. The groups are more likely to have nicely-spoken leaders who are fluent in doublespeak. But when the neo-nazis who follow these leaders are talking you find out what the real beliefs are, and they are clearly full of Hate First. Hate for people who aren't white enough, people who don't follow Christianity, people who aren't straight, people who are Jewish.

And now the modern neo-nazis are against people who aren't racist! If you're not racist then you're "anti-white" in their doublespeak, you're pro "white genocide"--though where that's happened other than somewhere like during the Holocaust where it was whites killing whites I have no idea.

Have these modern groups really managed to twist things so that the people protesting against nazi beliefs are the nazis? That people protesting against bullies are the bullies? Apparently they have, and I think this might be the scariest aspect of it yet.

If the neo-nazis, by whichever name they choose to call themselves, wish to go back to their 4-chan and their neo-nazi forums where they talk about the Bell Curve and Jews running the world, then they can have their free speech, even if it is hate speech. But when speech is used to bully and intimidate in the streets, when it's used to lie, then it's not free speech, it's hate speech.

Antifa is as full of hatred and bigotry as the KKK. They are just another hate group. Always judge a group by it's ACTIONS, not it's WORDS.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Here is a CNN report on Antifa and their violence. They are a terrorist group.

 

[flourish]

Antifa exists here to fight Nazis, neoNazis, white supremacists, the KKK.

People sometimes call antifa “the real Nazis” to make them seem the same, or to confuse the issue, as if hey, maybe the racists aren’t so bad and we should listen to them too. But only the white supremacists are the Nazis. They use their symbols and language, they refer to themselves as Nazis or neoNazis. They share their beliefs. It can’t be much simpler than that.

Antifa wants to fight (literally fight, whatever it takes) Nazis.

I don’t understand how people think being a Nazi is a matter of opinion.

You can be be opposed to both antifa AND the white supremacists/Nazis. But they are not the same.

Thank you. From what I've read, seen, and been told by a member, anti-fa isn't a structured group with a leader and while the group's goal is to extinguish facism and expose facists. I think the lack of a central structure creates confusion, because if one member does something, by default they're actions are often seen as being an official "anti-fa" action instead of the act of an individual who is part of anti-fa.

I've only met one person who identifies as a part of anti-fa. He is most definitely NOT a Nazi or fascist--that's what he is very much AGAINST.

It's interesting to see how various groups are viewed in the public eye.

 

[Gardenista]

But when speech is used to bully and intimidate in the streets, when it's used to lie, then it's not free speech, it's hate speech.

Same thing is going on here by Antifa. Hate speech is hate speech.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Here is a Washington Post article of Antifa being fascists.
Opinion | Yes, antifa is the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis

 

[CHICANA]

We're lucky to have people brave enough to go up against these hate groups and white supremacists. No room in civil discourse for their hateful *******.

Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys* met by hundreds of counter-protesters in Portland
*Proud Boys: "A fraternal organization of men who are proud to call themselves Western Chauvinists" (language #nsfw)

I don't think violence should be tolerated from either side. Attacking someone and destroying property is not civil discourse.

 

[flourish]

It's fascinating how there are opposing statements in msm about these groups, antifa in particular. As far as actions, well, I know for certain that Nazis are mean and hurtful. My jury's still out on anti-fa, because there seems to be such different information everywhere. If they're what their name implies, cool, but where they are so loosely structured it's difficult, if not impossible, to ascertain if its members' actions are representative of the group and its intentions.