OR OR - Union Co, Finley Creek Jane Doe, UnsFem 14-25, UP11902, preg, on wooded hillside, Aug'78

[Springrain]

Yeah, plus the whole dental work situation, the fact that Dr. Vance doesn't seem to think it's her, and the pregnancy situation makes it really unlikely that she is Patty. JMO.

 

[PattysVoice]

Although I think that the chances that FCJD is Patricia Otto are pretty likely, we shouldn't forget that the daughter is trying to recall details from over 45 years ago. Also, it's important to note that research suggests that witness testimony is actually quite unreliable and she may be experiencing some confirmation bias.

If anything….my bias would be the opposite! I was told Patty walked away, despite what I saw as a child and reported to adults I trusted. That statement is documented in a police file in December of 1976.

 

[PattysVoice]

Although I think that the chances that FCJD is Patricia Otto are pretty likely, we shouldn't forget that the daughter is trying to recall details from over 45 years ago. Also, it's important to note that research suggests that witness testimony is actually quite unreliable and she may be experiencing some confirmation bias.

If anything….my bias would be the opposite! I was told Patty walked away, despite what I saw as a child and reported to adults I trusted. That statement is documented in a police file in December of 1976.

I don't think she is Patty. For one thing, this Jane Doe was rather far along in her pregnancy and there is no evidence that Patty was pregnant at all from what I've read, much less far along. Yeah, maybe if she was pregnant and trying to hide it, her husband may have thought (I'm assuming rightly?) that it was someone else's child and that could have been what led him to kill her..as well as thinking she wasn't faithful to him. I know I read in addition she had dated someone else earlier that year when she was on a break from her husband who she was trying to leave, and of course he would have been aware of that. Patty and Patty's daughter do resemble this Jane Doe, but I think it is just too far fetched of a match. It would be nice to solve both mysteries.

It is a very far fetched match but….On induction day on baby #3, the nurse asked where the patient was, it is very possible that Patty was pregnant and had not disclosed it.

 

[PattysVoice]

Wouldn't it be kind of questionable that this particular people (father in law and his father) happened to stumble upon this remains of Patty.....It doesn't sit right with me....

Lee Parr did not come to know the Otto daughter until decades later in 2005. At no time was there a connection with the discovery in 1978 because they assumed FCJD had been identified years prior. Until the 3D image was released…

 

[Bagpus]

Lee Parr did not come to know the Otto daughter until decades later in 2005. At no time was there a connection with the discovery in 1978 because they assumed FCJD had been identified years prior. Until the 3D image was released…

PattysVoice, do you, by any chance, know how long before Patty's disappearance the dental x-rays were taken?

 

[Friday Fan]

It is a very far fetched match but….On induction day on baby #3, the nurse asked where the patient was, it is very possible that Patty was pregnant and had not disclosed it.

Which nurse, where? Was she planning an induced labor?

 

[Bit of hope]

If anything….my bias would be the opposite! I was told Patty walked away, despite what I saw as a child and reported to adults I trusted. That statement is documented in a police file in December of 1976.


It is a very far fetched match but….On induction day on baby #3, the nurse asked where the patient was, it is very possible that Patty was pregnant and had not disclosed it.

Thanks for sharing. I can't recall I've read anything about "an" induction day before. Also in the initial? description the hair is described as brown, changing through the time from light brown to blonde....in the recon it's blond.....I'm a bit confused now. I don't have access to this page so it seems, but I saw a picture of your mother I want to bring over....her hair is "brownish". In other report Patricia's hair is described as blonde.....Walla Walla women found Facebook post of her missing mom, brining her one step closer to finding her body

 

[Bagpus]

Which nurse, where? Was she planning an induced labor?

I understood the poster to be talking about her own experience, demonstrating that it's possible to be far along in a pregnancy and it still not be visible.

 

[its.evey]

Her profile was edited today, no obvious changes.

 

[PattysVoice]

Wouldn't it be kind of questionable that this particular people (father in law and his father) happened to stumble upon this remains of Patty.....It doesn't sit right with me....

In 1978, the Otto family had no connection to the hunters who discovered the remains. The connection was not made until after reviewing the old newspaper articles shared by the Finley Creek Taskforce. There are no coincidences in murder, only connections.

 

[PattysVoice]

PattysVoice, do you, by any chance, know how long before Patty's disappearance the dental x-rays were taken?

The X-ray for Patty is from 1975. Patty disappeared August 31, 1976. A pano is typically taken to assess the wisdom teeth. Patty has all four in the X-ray, FCJD is missing one. Three experienced dentists have reviewed Patty’s pano and determined that the right upper wisdom tooth would be the most problematic due to its position. This is the same wisdom tooth missing on FCJD.

 

[PattysVoice]

Confirmation bias is the concept, in short, that you recall information that favors a certain outcome. According to the source, she said the outfit that FCJD had on was what her mother was wearing when she last saw her.

The clothing Patty was last seen wearing was documented in a newspaper article days after Patty’s disappearance, not by the memory of a three year old child.

 

[PattysVoice]

I don't think she is Patty. For one thing, this Jane Doe was rather far along in her pregnancy and there is no evidence that Patty was pregnant at all from what I've read, much less far along. Yeah, maybe if she was pregnant and trying to hide it, her husband may have thought (I'm assuming rightly?) that it was someone else's child and that could have been what led him to kill her..as well as thinking she wasn't faithful to him. I know I read in addition she had dated someone else earlier that year when she was on a break from her husband who she was trying to leave, and of course he would have been aware of that. Patty and Patty's daughter do resemble this Jane Doe, but I think it is just too far fetched of a match. It would be nice to solve both mysteries.

There is very limited evidence to support the gestation of FCJDs pregnancy. No measurements of the fetal bones, no xrays, no photos.

 

[PattysVoice]

PattysVoice, do you, by any chance, know how long before Patty's disappearance the dental x-rays were taken?

Patty’s xrays were done in 1975, she disappeared August of 1976. FCJD was discovered in 1978.

 

[Susikatze]

There is very limited evidence to support the gestation of FCJDs pregnancy. No measurements of the fetal bones, no xrays, no photos.

Another take is that a small child will not be aware of her mothers pregnancy or remember it, especially if the mom was just five to seven months along... many women only start to really show from seven months onwards.

Also in the 70s, pregnant women did not yet usually wear skintight maternity clothing, their wardrobe was more concealing than revealing. I was born in the 80s and my mom wore oversized sweaters, prairie dresses and weird pinafore pants during her pregnancies.

If it is indeed Patty (i hope she is for the sake of her daughter), she may have very well been pregnant.

Any news whether the DNA extraction from the cremains was successful?

Edit: hey, didnt see youre Pattys daughter! I sincerely hope and pray the JD is your missing dear mom and that there will be a DNA result soon.

 

[PattysVoice]

Confirmation bias is the concept, in short, that you recall information that favors a certain outcome. According to the source, she said the outfit that FCJD had on was what her mother was wearing when she last saw her.

The outfit my mother was last seen wearing is documented in a report, not just my memory. The fabric that is familiar to me is the little hearts or cherry print. My sister had it everywhere in her home before her death. It was interesting that was the same description of the fabric found with FCJD.

 

[PattysVoice]

Which nurse, where? Was she planning an induced labor?

Sorry! I am talking about my own personal experience. (As Patty’s daughter) On delivery day, the nurse who was admitting me asked, “Where is the patient?” Because I didn’t show like many women do. I am just trying to say that it is possible to be pregnant and others are not aware. I tried uploading a photo but the file is too large.

 

[PattysVoice]

Which nurse, where? Was she planning an induced labor?

On my delivery day.

 

[PattysVoice]

Thanks for sharing. I can't recall I've read anything about "an" induction day before. Also in the initial? description the hair is described as brown, changing through the time from light brown to blonde....in the recon it's blond.....I'm a bit confused now. I don't have access to this page so it seems, but I saw a picture of your mother I want to bring over....her hair is "brownish". In other report Patricia's hair is described as blonde.....Walla Walla women found Facebook post of her missing mom, brining her one step closer to finding her body

I am referring to my own induction day, not Patty’s. The nurse asked, “Where is the patient.” I just didn’t have a noticeable pregnant belly. I am happy to share delivery day photos to show how I carried all four pregnancies. It is also not clearly documented that the fetal age was determined (no measurement, photos or X-rays to support the claim that this was a full term fetus).
The small amount of hair that was left on the scalp was buried for several years. It was reported as light brown/blonde hair in the grave.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Finley Creek Jane Doe has not been identified for 43 years.