OR OR - Union Co, Finley Creek Jane Doe, UnsFem 14-25, UP11902, preg, on wooded hillside, Aug'78

[victoriarobinson642]

FIELD NOTES
Apparently, the Finley Creek Jane Doe task force have been searching for bone fragments/the remainder of Finley Creek Jane Doe's remains in order to find something that they could turn into a DNA profile.

 

[theshadow45]

Finley Creek Jane Doe has been unidentified for 43 years today.

 

[Family_trees]

Has anyone looked into Sarah Rachel Tokier? Sounds like her last seen date is iffy because her parents were deceased. Photo in NAMUS shows red colored hair but she's described having brown hair so the photo is probably discolored/faded a bit. I think she looks like UP. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[Bit of hope]

Has anyone looked into Sarah Rachel Tokier? Sounds like her last seen date is iffy because her parents were deceased. Photo in NAMUS shows red colored hair but she's described having brown hair so the photo is probably discolored/faded a bit. I think she looks like UP. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

This is Sarah's thread...maybe you can find a connection...or a rule out...I didn't go that far...sorry CA - CA - Sarah Tokier, 16, Montebello, 1976

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Copy-pasting this exciting new update through a bad VPN connection due to access restriction for us WS'ers outside the US (hence why all the pictures couldn't be c/p'ed over..).

Walla Walla woman believes Finley Creek Jane Doe is her mom

1 of 4


Suzanne Timms poses for a portrait alongside a missing person poster for her mother, Patricia Otto, and a collection of documents pertaining to her disappearance at her home in Walla Walla on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021. Timms believes Finley Creek Jane Doe, discovered near Elgin in August 1978, is her mother, who went missing in 1976.



A missing person poster for Patricia Otto sits on the coffee table of her daughter, Suzanne Timms, on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021, at Timms’ home in Walla Walla. Otto was last seen on Aug. 31, 1976, at her home in Lewiston, Idaho.


Suzanne Timms holds up a set of dental X-rays belonging to her mother, Patricia Otto, on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021, at her home in Walla Walla. Timms’ mother was last seen on Aug. 31, 1976.


Suzanne Timms flips through documents pertaining to the 1976 disappearance of her mother, Patricia Otto, at her home in Walla Walla on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021.



"Suzanne Timms was looking at a Facebook page that lists missing persons when she thought she saw someone familiar — herself.

<modsnip: Copyright law is that no more than 10% of an article may be copied>


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ETA: Btw, isn't Patricia Otto on the ruleout list? I guess there could be errors done, it certainly has happened before.

 

[sunnynz]

Copy-pasting this exciting new update through a bad VPN connection due to access restriction for us WS'ers outside the US (hence why all the pictures couldn't be c/p'ed over..).

Walla Walla woman believes Finley Creek Jane Doe is her mom

1 of 4


Suzanne Timms poses for a portrait alongside a missing person poster for her mother, Patricia Otto, and a collection of documents pertaining to her disappearance at her home in Walla Walla on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021. Timms believes Finley Creek Jane Doe, discovered near Elgin in August 1978, is her mother, who went missing in 1976.



A missing person poster for Patricia Otto sits on the coffee table of her daughter, Suzanne Timms, on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021, at Timms’ home in Walla Walla. Otto was last seen on Aug. 31, 1976, at her home in Lewiston, Idaho.


Suzanne Timms holds up a set of dental X-rays belonging to her mother, Patricia Otto, on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021, at her home in Walla Walla. Timms’ mother was last seen on Aug. 31, 1976.


Suzanne Timms flips through documents pertaining to the 1976 disappearance of her mother, Patricia Otto, at her home in Walla Walla on Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021.



"Suzanne Timms was looking at a Facebook page that lists missing persons when she thought she saw someone familiar — herself.

<modsnip: Copyright law is that no more than 10% of an article may be copied>


------------------------------


ETA: Btw, isn't Patricia Otto on the ruleout list? I guess there could be errors done, it certainly has happened before.

Wow sounds promising! If there’s no DNA how were they ruling people out, did they have dentals?

 

[sunnynz]

There’s a Facebook page called Patty’s Voice run by Suzanne which has some good up to date info on it. I think that’s ok to share here.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Although I think that the chances that FCJD is Patricia Otto are pretty likely, we shouldn't forget that the daughter is trying to recall details from over 45 years ago. Also, it's important to note that research suggests that witness testimony is actually quite unreliable and she may be experiencing some confirmation bias.

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

ETA: Btw, isn't Patricia Otto on the ruleout list? I guess there could be errors done, it certainly has happened before.

Not necessarily ruled out; but she has been placed as an inconclusive because of some factors between Patty and FCJD’s dentals. They are very, VERY similar; but FCJD only had a dental chart, no X-Rays, and Patty’s X-rays were older, and it’s believed that she had further work done on her teeth prior to going missing. That would explain some of the work that was done on FCJD’s teeth.

Because of this, Dr. Vance has refused to confirm or deny that FCJD is Patty Otto.

The Otto lead has by far been the strongest lead in our research on this case. If y’all go to the Facebook page, we are planning to do a Halloween “Webinar” on the case Friday night at 7pm ET/4pm PT. We will be talking about those leads and more.

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

Although I think that the chances that FCJD is Patricia Otto are pretty likely, we shouldn't forget that the daughter is trying to recall details from over 45 years ago. Also, it's important to note that research suggests that witness testimony is actually quite unreliable and she may be experiencing some confirmation bias.

Can you explain that a little more in-depth, the confirmation bias?

 

[onceuponadecember]

Can you explain that a little more in-depth, the confirmation bias? She’s got the original file, as well other bits of information that does appear her father may had something to do with Patty’s disappearance.

Confirmation bias is the concept, in short, that you recall information that favors a certain outcome. According to the source, she said the outfit that FCJD had on was what her mother was wearing when she last saw her.

 

[Springrain]

Confirmation bias is the concept, in short, that you recall information that favors a certain outcome. According to the source, she said the outfit that FCJD had on was what her mother was wearing when she last saw her.

Yeah, I am not trying to doubt her story, because I do think there is a very real possibility that Patty is this Doe, but I can definitely see how confirmation bias can lead to her being certain of these seemingly small details from 45 years ago.

Not necessarily ruled out; but she has been placed as an inconclusive because of some factors between Patty and FCJD’s dentals. They are very, VERY similar; but FCJD only had a dental chart, no X-Rays, and Patty’s X-rays were older, and it’s believed that she had further work done on her teeth prior to going missing. That would explain some of the work that was done on FCJD’s teeth.

Because of this, Dr. Vance has refused to confirm or deny that FCJD is Patty Otto.

The Otto lead has by far been the strongest lead in our research on this case. If y’all go to the Facebook page, we are planning to do a Halloween “Webinar” on the case Friday night at 7pm ET/4pm PT. We will be talking about those leads and more.

I'm confused because she is definitely on the rule-out list (I just checked). Do they usually put inconclusives on the rule-out list? Did someone besides Dr. Vance rule her out?

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

Yeah, I am not trying to doubt her story, because I do think there is a very real possibility that Patty is this Doe, but I can definitely see how confirmation bias can lead to her being certain of these seemingly small details from 45 years ago.



I'm confused because she is definitely on the rule-out list (I just checked). Do they usually put inconclusives on the rule-out list? Did someone besides Dr. Vance rule her out?

Yes, Dr. Vance does put inconclusives on the rule out lists because she cannot confirm the remains belonging to Patty unless something compelling comes up, like us finding FCJD’s cremains and getting a working DNA sample out of them. And that’s what we are hoping for with the testing of the cremains Mel came across a while back. The cremains are currently at a lab in Canada. Should we get a working extraction, Redgrave Research Forensic Services will be handling the forensic genealogy work.

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

I’ll add that Dr. Vance has been in communication with us throughout the Otto lead, and she did send us a very detailed email as to why she cannot confirm or deny the remains being Patty.

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

What we really hope for is that the lab in Ontario will give us positive results on the unknown set of cremains recovered at the Walla Walla coroners office. We do hope that they are indeed the remains of FCJD and her baby; and we also hope that the Redgrave’s can help identify them through FGG.

And IF these remains are not of FCJD and her child, we are at least going to do our best to identify who the cremains belong to so they can finally get to the right people.

 

[LucyOso]

Following

 

[carbuff]

Patty Otto's missing pages, for people like me who tend to lose old links:

Charley Project: Patricia Lee Otto – The Charley Project
Doenetwork: 394DFID - Patricia Lee Otto
Namus: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[onceuponadecember]

I’m just curious, but how many of you guys genuinely believe that FCJD could be Patty?

 

[Springrain]

I’m just curious, but how many of you guys genuinely believe that FCJD could be Patty?

After reading the email from Dr. Vance above, I don't think Patty is FCJD. I don't think Dr. Vance does either JMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

I’m just curious, but how many of you guys genuinely believe that FCJD could be Patty?

According to the article, her father in law was hunting with his father and they discovered Finley Creek JD's remains in 1978. That to me, is kinda like having a bit of insider knowledge or I don't know what the term would be...(or would it be "insider exposure??") I don't know what the term would be???

I think the recon looks Suzette, but the recon was done with extremely limited information.